What is the difference between Leftwich

[mizzoucardfan]

Honestly curious? I am more of an NFL fan than a College fan, but when I get the opportunity to see a player that the Cardinals might have an interest in, or everyone is raving about, I try to watch them play when I get the chance. The past 2 years I have watched Leftwich, Ragone, Simms, and Grossman play several times each. They are all very good QBs, but honestly I didn't see Leftwich stand out above any of the others. ( He actually reminds me of the guy on the Vikings and I am not that impressed with him ) . Can you guys actually tell me why you think he is such a franchise player?

 

[Lex]

In my opinion, Byron Leftwich is the most overrated player in this draft. He supposedly has recovered from his leg injury 8 months ago, and will finally work out for scouts on monday. We'll see.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by mizzoucardfan
Honestly curious? I am more of an NFL fan than a College fan, but when I get the opportunity to see a player that the Cardinals might have an interest in, or everyone is raving about, I try to watch them play when I get the chance. The past 2 years I have watched Leftwich, Ragone, Simms, and Grossman play several times each. They are all very good QBs, but honestly I didn't see Leftwich stand out above any of the others. ( He actually reminds me of the guy on the Vikings and I am not that impressed with him ) . Can you guys actually tell me why you think he is such a franchise player?

Well, the game that was the clincher for me, was the GMAC Bowl. He was playing on a badly broken shin, and was throwing lasers fourty yards down the field WITHOUT stepping into his throws! The only other Qb that I've seen do that is Dan Marino.

He has a better arm than Simms, Grossman, and Ragone, is much more accurate, and is more consistent. I honestly believe out of the rest of the Qbs (Ragone, Grossman, and Simms), Grossman is the best. Simms, imo, is going to be a bust, he just played terrible against the better teams.

Now to your comparison to Culpepper....the only comparison between the two, is the fact that both are black and big, and that's about it. Culpepper is actually a little bigger, and much faster, but isn't nearly as accurate (at least from what I see) and doesn't make as good decisions. Culpepper has been a bit of a disapointment lately, but he might be the single most gifted Qb in the league (not as fast as Vick, but more of the total package as far as size, speed, arm strength and accuracy).

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Lex
In my opinion, Byron Leftwich is the most overrated player in this draft. He supposedly has recovered from his leg injury 8 months ago, and will finally work out for scouts on monday. We'll see.

Why is he overrated Lex? Name one part of his game.

 

[mizzoucardfan]

Come on you guys.Krang?Big Daddy? Several of you others who have said that if Suggs isn't there at #6 take the franchise QB Leftwich. Were you just repeating what some draft site said? Or is there something that I missed?

 

[JeffGollin]

I didn't see Leftwich stand out above any of the others.
I did.

The two or three games I saw Leftwich in last season, he was extremely accurate.

He also displayed true grit - playing on one leg and being carried "fireman 2-seater-style" by his teammates from the spot of the preceding play up to the line of scrimmage for the next play.

Usually when a QB combines so-called intangibles with a strong, accurate arm, you've got a winner.

The only question (and a major one) is his mobility or lack thereof. Part of this is a function of his leg injury/part due to an inherent lack of leg-quicks on the part of Leftwich. Progress of his rehab/future prognosis is a hot debate topic.

I also watched games with Grossman, Ragone and Simms. Grossman had nice touch and might fit in a west coast scheme. (We're going in a different direction). Ragone looked pretty decent but not spectacular. I like Simms and feel he can be a better pro than he was in college. But historically, it's been choke-city for Simms - i.e. he is NOT known for playing big in big games.

 

[mizzoucardfan]

Sorry.Krang. You posted while I was typing my 2nd reply. Actually, of the ones I listed, the one that I like thde most is Ragone. Big, tough, strong arm, and relatively fast. Probably rated higher last year than this year, which is a shame because this year he had almost no one as a supporting cast. His receivers couldn't get open and when they did they would drop balls that drilled them in the chest.

 

[red desert]

Re: Re: What is the difference between Leftwich

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Well, the game that was the clincher for me, was the GMAC Bowl. He was playing on a badly broken shin, and was throwing lasers fourty yards down the field WITHOUT stepping into his throws! The only other Qb that I've seen do that is Dan Marino.

He has a better arm than Simms, Grossman, and Ragone, is much more accurate, and is more consistent. I honestly believe out of the rest of the Qbs (Ragone, Grossman, and Simms), Grossman is the best. Simms, imo, is going to be a bust, he just played terrible against the better teams.

Now to your comparison to Culpepper....the only comparison between the two, is the fact that both are black and big, and that's about it. Culpepper is actually a little bigger, and much faster, but isn't nearly as accurate (at least from what I see) and doesn't make as good decisions. Culpepper has been a bit of a disapointment lately, but he might be the single most gifted Qb in the league (not as fast as Vick, but more of the total package as far as size, speed, arm strength and accuracy).

I think Leftwich is going to toss a lot of TDs in the NFL. He's a perfectly suited (size and arm strength/accuracy) to stand behind our offense line offense and toss darts. The only guy I'd take other that Leftwich in Suggs. But, hell, I keep changing my mind every week . . .

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by mizzoucardfan
Come on you guys.Krang?Big Daddy? Several of you others who have said that if Suggs isn't there at #6 take the franchise QB Leftwich. Were you just repeating what some draft site said? Or is there something that I missed?

HELL NO!

I've been a huge supporter of Leftwich for 2 years now. Jeff said it better than I did (as usual ). Leftwich is extremely accurate, has a very strong arm, and is a gutsy leader. Plus he excelled his entire career (never had a bad year) and from what Graves said, was about the best interview at the combine. He is a student of the game and a self-made player.

That said, Jeff hit the nail on the head. His major concerns are injuries and a lack of mobility. I think that those can be overlooked a little however, since he is such a nice prospect. His lack of mobility wouldn't hurt as much behind our oline.

One major thing though: I don't want us to draft him. I want either Suggs or Robertson. Our defense was so bad last year, that we need to address it at the top of the draft. Blake will be capable next year, and I don't think that Leftwich will be better than him off the bat. If we pick Leftwich, we are looking towards the future.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by mizzoucardfan
Sorry.Krang. You posted while I was typing my 2nd reply. Actually, of the ones I listed, the one that I like thde most is Ragone. Big, tough, strong arm, and relatively fast. Probably rated higher last year than this year, which is a shame because this year he had almost no one as a supporting cast. His receivers couldn't get open and when they did they would drop balls that drilled them in the chest.

What I didn't like about Ragone: He has happy feet which will lead him to accuracy problems. And a great college Qb can make his team better, and Ragone didn't really do that last year.

Head to head (between Ragone and Leftwich) there is no comparison. Watch the GMAC bowl, and you will see that Leftwich was much better.

 

[EndZone]

The guy is amazing! I was NEVER impressed with Grossman or Simms. Ragone just flat out sucked this year. The GMAC game both Leftwich and Ragone was in and Leftwich made Ragone look like a pop warner QB with a broken leg.

Pennington said that Leftwichs ability to see the entire field and make the perfect throw was "un-natural" Pennington raved about how good Leftwich was.

 

[AZCB34]

Leftwich looks to have a HUGE arm with alot of accuracy and that in itself is maybe the strongest selling point. That ability can off set the lack of mobility factor everyone says he has in that he can throw the ball to avoid the sack...much like Marino used to do (I am not comparing him to Marino, just one facet). The fact he gutted it out like he did shows alot of positives that will translate to the field, huddle and lockerroom...don't think for a minute vet players wouldn't see him gutting it out and bust their ass for him.

Simms is intriguing from a bloodlines factor but he did little at Texas to really sell me on him. The big game choke pattern is scary because unlike college football where the power teams only play 3-4 "big" games per year, in the NFL every game is big for making the playoffs...just ask any team who missed out by one game.

Grossman...quite frankly I haven't seen alot of him but what I have seen causes me to lean towards what Jeff is saying and a West Coast O team would probably be ideal for him.

Ragone has a strong arm and can run the ball to avoid pressure. He was screwed this year by a piss poor Oline and injuries to the WR corp. He is better than we saw during the college season. He would be my choice for later in the draft.

Another guy who peaks the curiosity on St Pierre out of BC. Didn't watch him at all but have heard alot of good things about him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Leftwich looks to have a HUGE arm with alot of accuracy and that in itself is maybe the strongest selling point. That ability can off set the lack of mobility factor everyone says he has in that he can throw the ball to avoid the sack...much like Marino used to do (I am not comparing him to Marino, just one facet). The fact he gutted it out like he did shows alot of positives that will translate to the field, huddle and lockerroom...don't think for a minute vet players wouldn't see him gutting it out and bust their ass for him.

Simms is intriguing from a bloodlines factor but he did little at Texas to really sell me on him. The big game choke pattern is scary because unlike college football where the power teams only play 3-4 "big" games per year, in the NFL every game is big for making the playoffs...just ask any team who missed out by one game.

Grossman...quite frankly I haven't seen alot of him but what I have seen causes me to lean towards what Jeff is saying and a West Coast O team would probably be ideal for him.

Ragone has a strong arm and can run the ball to avoid pressure. He was screwed this year by a piss poor Oline and injuries to the WR corp. He is better than we saw during the college season. He would be my choice for later in the draft.

Another guy who peaks the curiosity on St Pierre out of BC. Didn't watch him at all but have heard alot of good things about him.

Nice take Cubbie, though I don't really agree on Ragone, I wouldn't take him personally.

Interesting that you wouldn't compare Leftwich to Marino.....that's exactly who I think he plays like.

I'm going to stop posting on this thread....the more that I talk about Leftwich, the more that I want us to take him!

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Nice take Cubbie, though I don't really agree on Ragone, I wouldn't take him personally.

Interesting that you wouldn't compare Leftwich to Marino.....that's exactly who I think he plays like.

I'm going to stop posting on this thread....the more that I talk about Leftwich, the more that I want us to take him!

I have an intense dislike of comparing these college kids to the NFL greats who defined their position (ala Jake=Joe or Leftwich=Marino). I think it kind of cheapens what those vets did over very very successful careers.

As for Ragone, I was high on him before the season started and was disappointed by his season but the factors around him cannot be swept aside. The one thing, that I should have mentioned in my initial post, is that a college all-star game that Ragone played in, I was very disappointed in his effort. I heard he practiced great that week but it sure didn't seem to translate to the field against top shelf college competition...something he didn't face all the time in Conference USA. That makes me nervous a bit but I still like his arm and his ability to avoid the rush...which he had to show alot this year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
HELL NO!

I've been a huge supporter of Leftwich for 2 years now. Jeff said it better than I did (as usual ). Leftwich is extremely accurate, has a very strong arm, and is a gutsy leader. Plus he excelled his entire career (never had a bad year) and from what Graves said, was about the best interview at the combine. He is a student of the game and a self-made player.

That said, Jeff hit the nail on the head. His major concerns are injuries and a lack of mobility. I think that those can be overlooked a little however, since he is such a nice prospect. His lack of mobility wouldn't hurt as much behind our oline.

One major thing though: I don't want us to draft him. I want either Suggs or Robertson. Our defense was so bad last year, that we need to address it at the top of the draft. Blake will be capable next year, and I don't think that Leftwich will be better than him off the bat. If we pick Leftwich, we are looking towards the future.

This team should be looking towards the future - any single player we take in round one is not going to make us contenders this year - could it possibly raise us to 7-9 or 8-8, yes, but who cares - that's just short term gratification (and not much gratification in my eyes). Blake ain't the long term answer - but if you get a stud QB, your future is then set - do you want to bank on Josh being our future when Lefty could be available? I sure as hell don't.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by AZCB34
I have an intense dislike of comparing these college kids to the NFL greats who defined their position (ala Jake=Joe or Leftwich=Marino). I think it kind of cheapens what those vets did over very very successful careers.

You will never catch me actually saying that Leftwich "will be the next Marino". There is a difference in saying he plays like Marino!

 

[mizzoucardfan]

I watched Leftwich twice this year and his strength seemed to be the long ball. How do you think he is on the short and intermediate throws? Does he display good touch on those type throws?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Leftwich

I keep wondering where people are getting this "Leftwich isn't fully recovered from his leg injury" from?

It was said by one person on this message board, and since then it has been gospel. According to my Sporting News draft guide, Leftwich was checked out by team doctors at the combine and was found to be on an excellent path to recovery and should show no lingering effects from his injury.

So...I have given you my source...what's yours Lex?


As to what makes Leftwich better:

His arm strength is as good as any QB in the NFL. Not talking just the ability to chuck it downfield, but to throw it in a tight spiral long distances. He also is very good at reading the blitz and seeing the defense. This will help offset any lack of mobility.

If you have basically ever been to a Cardinals/Patriots game, you have seen first hand how badly you can get your @ss kicked by a good pocket QB.

 

[JasonKGME]

Re: Leftwich

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
According to my Sporting News draft guide, Leftwich was checked out by team doctors at the combine and was found to be on an excellent path to recovery and should show no lingering effects from his injury.

Not sure I wouldnt take that comment from the Sporting News as a source. It states and I use your quote "he is on an excellent path to recovery" In no way shape or form does that state that he has recovered fully, just that he is on the path to recovery and should have no lingering effects.

On a side not I also dont like the word "should", you allways here that word bandied about as tho it is a lock guarentee, but alot of times, that should turns into a should have.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

PG 21

Marshall's Byron Leftwich, still rehabilitating from a stress fracture in his lower left leg, did not run or work out. He did, however, get a clean bill of health from the doctors who evaluatd him at the combine, which was an important step for him.

Hmmm....So what was this about it is "rumored" that his leg injury is much worse???

Hogwash...that is what it is.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Lex
In my opinion, Byron Leftwich is the most overrated player in this draft. He supposedly has recovered from his leg injury 8 months ago, and will finally work out for scouts on monday. We'll see.

In your opinion, anyone not named Jake Plummer sucks....

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
In your opinion, anyone not named Jake Plummer sucks....

Didn't he used to play for the Cards????

 

[Lex]

Krang- have you ever had a football related leg stress fracture? I have, so has Donovan McNabb. Me and Donovan played the rest of the game on it, it's no big deal. You can't really put your full push off weight on it, but you can jog, and walk around without much discomfort. The injury takes 4-6 weeks to heal.

But not for Lefty. For him, it's an 8 month recovery. I'm not concerned about his future injury problems from this at all. I was skeptical when I saw the show he and his teammates put on, when he was carried down the feild for show.

My concern, is that he keeps avoiding workouts due to his injury. I think he's afraid of being exposed. We'll see.

I'm glad Plummer's gone. Too many fellow Cardinal fans wanted it. I like cheap quarterbacks like we now have. I'm a defensive football fan, and I think the QB should be good at handing off.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Lex
I'm glad Plummer's gone. Too many fellow Cardinal fans wanted it. I like cheap quarterbacks like we now have. I'm a defensive football fan, and I think the QB should be good at handing off.

Word up, Lex. Testify!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Lex
Krang- have you ever had a football related leg stress fracture? I have, so has Donovan McNabb. Me and Donovan played the rest of the game on it, it's no big deal. You can't really put your full push off weight on it, but you can jog, and walk around without much discomfort. The injury takes 4-6 weeks to heal.

But not for Lefty. For him, it's an 8 month recovery. I'm not concerned about his future injury problems from this at all. I was skeptical when I saw the show he and his teammates put on, when he was carried down the feild for show.

My concern, is that he keeps avoiding workouts due to his injury. I think he's afraid of being exposed. We'll see.

I'm glad Plummer's gone. Too many fellow Cardinal fans wanted it. I like cheap quarterbacks like we now have. I'm a defensive football fan, and I think the QB should be good at handing off.

This isn't one those definite situations Lex. Every injury is different and every person handles them different. Did you break your shin? I don't think that McNabb did.

I think you are way offbase (like usual) to accuse him of dodging workouts. He is a tremendous QB, and even if he doesn't workout at all, he will still be a top ten pick.

I agree that defense wins games.