What is the Status of our WR Corp?

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Specifically, the whole group of WRs we drafted recently. How many do we have now and will they all stick with the team? As I remember, we were all pretty excited about all we drafted last year, plus those we already had and drafted before that also. Seems we have a bunch more to talk about besides H, F, and K.

 

[Harry]

Fitz will call the Fitz exit.
Hopkins will sign an extended deal.
The others are playing for their jobs, which is why taking Lamb is a real possibility. I doubt Butler makes it. He may not even make the team.
Kirk is the most likely to stay. Then Johnson and finally Isabella. I know the latter is a fan favorite but he has to show his skill set works in the NFL. If they take Lamb there’s just not enough passes to go around. The others on the roster won’t be factors.

 

[TheCardFan]

Kirk is a good #3...even better #4 WR.

I don't see Isabella's "elite speed" or elusiveness on jet sweeps/screens. He had two big plays (and they were great) but I expect Henry Ruggs type of speed from him. Not a lot of hope for him right now IMO.

I think Johnson is a very solid #4/#5 WR...he needs to be more consistent.

Butler is the wild card...long shot. If he can turn into a real player, we have something. If not, we move on quickly.

Hopkins
Fitz (it's been a long time since #11 wasn't our #1)
Kirk
Johnson (70/30 he makes it)
>>>>drop off
Isabella 50/50 (maybe)
Butler 30/70 (too early to tell)

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Well, from what you both have said, it appears we wasted 2 or 3 good draft spots in last year's draft. What went wrong or was wrong regarding those picks?

 

[Proximo]

Well, from what you both have said, it appears we wasted 2 or 3 good draft spots in last year's draft. What went wrong or was wrong regarding those picks?

I hope I'm wrong but I think all three are going to fail.

I have some hope for Isabella - but not much.

Johnson is just an end of roster possession receiver, he will never get many passes thrown his way.

Butler was the worst receiver in camp last year. If he can't show up and show anything as a rookie, I really doubt that turns around.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I hope I'm wrong but I think all three are going to fail.

I have some hope for Isabella - but not much.

Johnson is just an end of roster possession receiver, he will never get many passes thrown his way.

Butler was the worst receiver in camp last year. If he can't show up and show anything as a rookie, I really doubt that turns around.

When did Butler's hand injury actually occur? Could that have contributed to his poor showing in camp?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I broke this down in another thread

 

[Chris_Sanders]

#1. offensive sets are why a receiver may matter

The Cardinals ran 1000 offensive plays in 2019. Great number because it makes the percentages easy.

34.6% of the time they were in 11 personel or 3 WRs.
31.7% of the time they were in 10 personel or 4 WRs
0.5% they went 5 WRs

This means that if your assumption is that the #8 pick is at best a #4 WR then that person will play 32.2% of the time. If they become the #3 receiver they would play 66.8% of the time.

#2. Christian Kirk

I like Kirk but he has missed 1/4 of the season twice now. He also was #84 in yards before catch and #101 in yards after the catch. Larry, as old as he is, beat him in both areas. Between lack of availability and lack of explosiveness he wasn't a reliable option at #2. Damiere Byrd outperformed him in the final three games.

If Kirk doesn't improve, he won't be even a #3 when he is healthy enough to be a #3.

#3. The Rookies from Last Year.

Disappointing is all that can be said about the rookies from last year. It is magnified by how many other rookie WRs hit.

Hakeem Butler was the worst WR in camp and would have been cut if he wasn't put on IR.

Andy Isabella has neither Murray or Kingsbury's confidence. Those 3 games where Byrd became the defacto #2? Isabella had 1 target.

KeeSean didn't see the field after week 11.

Basically the exact opposite of what I would expect for rookies happened here. As the season went on they became less of a factor until they weren't a factor at all.

There is nothing to indicate that these guys were good picks or can be counted on in 2020. You have to hope Isabella steps up but you also can't get caught up in sunk costs.

#4. Larry Fitz

The end is coming sooner than later. 1 or 2 years at max. You are drafting a receiver this year or next year. If you believe this is your chance at an elite duo that you can pair with Murray for the next 5 years then you do it.

#5. Salary Cap Management

You are going to need to pay Hopkins with his talent. Kirk's rookie deal ends in 2 years. Larry is on a 1 or 2 year deal.

A rookie at #8 will make just under 5 million annual. Drafting that rookie now means that when Larry retires you aren't tied to paying Kirk as a #2 WR. In fact, that rookie's contract will be up for renewal right when Hopkins is ending and his career is winding down. It gives you greater flexibility long term

 

[Chris_Sanders]

When did Butler's hand injury actually occur? Could that have contributed to his poor showing in camp?

Word is it wasn't even a real injury. They just IR stashed him rather than cut him

 

[imaCafan]

Amazing some, Well at least one anyway, had a late first round grade on Butler.

 

[cardsunsfan]

We don't know if Larry will even slow down significantly next year.. If the prognosis ends up being only Hopkins as a good receiver ironically our Oline might be in better shape than wide receiver and we should possibly draft a WR if his draft grade is better.

 

[vince56]

Considering Pharoah Cooper and Damiere Byrd had significant minutes late in the year, you have to look at last year's draft picks at WR as lost picks and hope one of them learns how to contribute.

We have Hopkins at x, Fitz in the slot, and then WR by committee at Z. We need to get better there IMO. Imagine Ruggs and Hopkins splitting time at X and Z all year with Fitz up the seam and over the middle. Unstoppable.

 

[Solar7]

We don't know if Larry will even slow down significantly next year.. If the prognosis ends up being only Hopkins as a good receiver ironically our Oline might be in better shape than wide receiver and we should possibly draft a WR if his draft grade is better.

It is laughable to even consider that our OL is better than our WRs. Come on now.

Considering Pharoah Cooper and Damiere Byrd had significant minutes late in the year, you have to look at last year's draft picks at WR as lost picks and hope one of them learns how to contribute.

We have Hopkins at x, Fitz in the slot, and then WR by committee at Z. We need to get better there IMO. Imagine Ruggs and Hopkins splitting time at X and Z all year with Fitz up the seam and over the middle. Unstoppable.

Only stoppable by rushing four and pressuring Kyler Murray constantly... like happened last year, with the same guys.

 

[slanidrac16]

It’s amazing how some think one OT will make our offensive line this impenetrable force. It’s more about cohesiveness, familiarity and health. Lets look at what Keim has done.

On defense he added 3 pieces that ALL of us felt we needed to upgrade, ILB, OLB and DL. Experienced players.

offensively he’s has kept the starting offense from last year intact with the exception of center and added an all pro WR.

It’s become more and more evident to me we are now in “ build a juggernaut offense” mode. Do not be shocked if we add a WR, RB and even a TE. Surround Kyler with weapons. With a trade back we could still end up with Lamb in the first, pick up a 2nd and add Dobbins.

This road would surely shore up depth at positions that are vital to make this offense go.

We can’t wait around wondering if last years wr’s are going to be ready this year. If Hopkins were to get hurt we’d be right back in the same boat as last, in fact worse. I don’t think we would have left Byrd AND Cooper walk without a plan to draft a WR.

Get the popcorn ready. It’s going to be a show.

 

[DVontel]

It’s amazing how some think one OT will make our offensive line this impenetrable force. It’s more about cohesiveness, familiarity and health. Lets look at what Keim has done.

On defense he added 3 pieces that ALL of us felt we needed to upgrade, ILB, OLB and DL. Experienced players.

offensively he’s has kept the starting offense from last year intact with the exception of center and added an all pro WR.

It’s become more and more evident to me we are now in “ build a juggernaut offense” mode. Do not be shocked if we add a WR, RB and even a TE. Surround Kyler with weapons. With a trade back we could still end up with Lamb in the first, pick up a 2nd and add Dobbins.

This road would surely shore up depth at positions that are vital to make this offense go.

We can’t wait around wondering if last years wr’s are going to be ready this year. If Hopkins were to get hurt we’d be right back in the same boat as last, in fact worse. I don’t think we would have left Byrd AND Cooper walk without a plan to draft a WR.

Get the popcorn ready. It’s going to be a show.

Lol man

 

[DVontel]

Man I swear if we use our first two picks on a WR & RB...

 

[slanidrac16]

Man I swear if we use our first two picks on a WR & RB...

I’m not saying we should. Just that appears that it could be shaping up this way.

 

[cardsunsfan]

It is laughable to even consider that our OL is better than our WRs. Come on now.


Only stoppable by rushing four and pressuring Kyler Murray constantly... like happened last year, with the same guys.

If Larry falls off a cliff physically (which does happen) Kirk has a year like last year and Hopkins is the only reliable Receiver than I think that might very well be the case. Not to mention if Larry retires in one year which is pretty short term. I think at times our Oline looked good, especially when they got more experience together and stayed healthy.

I think right now I'd take Wills if Simpson is there but the other Offensive line options look iffy to me...

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Isabella's play isn't a surprise, he was a slow starter in college, so to assume anything else would have been foolish.

If he improves every year, then he will be good by year three. Would love for him for that to go faster, but he just seems like a guy who has to put in lots and lots of reps to get things right, at least he seems to have the work ethic, so it is what it is.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

If we had the picks I would be all for us drafting Cam Akers or Zach Moss in R2 or 3. But we just dont have any ammo this year. Hopefully, we will nail our R 1 chkice. After that, R3 is the only other shot we have to nail a starter or solid contributor. I really love Chase Claypool, if he be there in R3, and feel he and Hopkins could bring back memories of Fitz/Boldin.

 

[Solar7]

It’s amazing how some think one OT will make our offensive line this impenetrable force. It’s more about cohesiveness, familiarity and health. Lets look at what Keim has done.

On defense he added 3 pieces that ALL of us felt we needed to upgrade, ILB, OLB and DL. Experienced players.

offensively he’s has kept the starting offense from last year intact with the exception of center and added an all pro WR.

It’s become more and more evident to me we are now in “ build a juggernaut offense” mode. Do not be shocked if we add a WR, RB and even a TE. Surround Kyler with weapons. With a trade back we could still end up with Lamb in the first, pick up a 2nd and add Dobbins.

This road would surely shore up depth at positions that are vital to make this offense go.

We can’t wait around wondering if last years wr’s are going to be ready this year. If Hopkins were to get hurt we’d be right back in the same boat as last, in fact worse. I don’t think we would have left Byrd AND Cooper walk without a plan to draft a WR.

Get the popcorn ready. It’s going to be a show.

I don't think anyone who wants an OT thinks it's going to be an overnight transformation. We're just wildly aware that the talent on this line sucks.

If you think we're going to the playoffs, the Super Bowl, whatever, with five offensive linemen who can't sniff a Pro Bowl alternate, I don't know what to tell you.

You've got to invest in the line eventually. Sexy picks get you nowhere when the line is subpar every ****ing year. Our linemen are constantly hurt, castoffs from another team, old, or a combination of those. There's not a single great lineman on this team.

I don't know why you think these other positions are "vital to make this offense go," that we need elite caliber talent backups all across the board, besides offensive line, where apparently, we can get by with garbage. Which no other successful team is doing, but okay. Justin Murray had an okay game or two, and PFF rates us in the bottom third of the league. Rock and roll, guys. Time to be excited.

 

[cardpa]

It’s amazing how some think one OT will make our offensive line this impenetrable force. It’s more about cohesiveness, familiarity and health. Lets look at what Keim has done.

On defense he added 3 pieces that ALL of us felt we needed to upgrade, ILB, OLB and DL. Experienced players.

offensively he’s has kept the starting offense from last year intact with the exception of center and added an all pro WR.

It’s become more and more evident to me we are now in “ build a juggernaut offense” mode. Do not be shocked if we add a WR, RB and even a TE. Surround Kyler with weapons. With a trade back we could still end up with Lamb in the first, pick up a 2nd and add Dobbins.

This road would surely shore up depth at positions that are vital to make this offense go.

We can’t wait around wondering if last years wr’s are going to be ready this year. If Hopkins were to get hurt we’d be right back in the same boat as last, in fact worse. I don’t think we would have left Byrd AND Cooper walk without a plan to draft a WR.

Get the popcorn ready. It’s going to be a show.

It's either that or they have more faith in Isabella and Butler than we do.

 

[Rain Man]

The receiving Corp is a great problem to have. Just two seasons ago we were thin and now?

You can argue all you want of who is #4 or #5. Bottom line it's going to come down to special teams.

Butler is out and replacing Cooper will be difficult. Kirk can return kicks but the injury factor plays in.

 

[AirRaid]

I feel like receiving is arguably our biggest strength. We can add a late round pick or undrafted guy and we're set depth wise. Hopkins and Fitz, with Drake in the backfield is a nightmare to defend against. Then you have Kirk who is really rounding into a good receiver. Murray has all the weapons in the world minus a tight end that destroys the seams of a defense.

I haven't been this happy with the group since 2008.

 

[cardpa]

I feel like receiving is arguably our biggest strength. We can add a late round pick or undrafted guy and we're set depth wise. Hopkins and Fitz, with Drake in the backfield is a nightmare to defend against. Then you have Kirk who is really rounding into a good receiver. Murray has all the weapons in the world minus a tight end that destroys the seams of a defense.

I haven't been this happy with the group since 2008.

The WR corps is looking pretty solid and I still don't understand why Keim didn't pursue Ebron unless he did but his offer wasn't enough. Still the contract Ebron did sign was not that significant. He has averaged over 11 YPC which is pretty good for a TE and proved he could be a good Red Zone target with the 13 TDs in 2018. Maybe they have a lot of faith in Arnold but he's more of a hybrid than TE at 6'-6" and 220 lbs. Neither Daniels or Williams are what you would call prolific receivers.