What made the NFL great is now killing the NFL

[Russ Smith]

I suppose you do not watch MMA or Boxing then? I dont completely agree with what was stated in the original post, but do see what he is saying. The fact is these sports are violent and there is a real risk of losing your life or at least your health. That is part of the reason these sports pay so well and filter out only the best mentally and physically.

I guess my feeling is that I am a bit tired of society/govt/businesses making decisions for the individuals "well being". Bottom line is Ben or Kurt could have desided not to play and I dont think anyone would have looked at them as any less of a man. But when those decisions start to be taken away, well PA is right the sport could very well suffer. QB's are very well protected by the rules of the game now.

I would counter that the comments made by Hines Ward point out what's wrong. The mentality in football is the players are disposable, they're not human beings they're assets and when they get injured they either take painkillers and perform, or get tossed aside. Roethlisberger has won 2 Superbowls and stands there and takes more hits than any QB in the game, but Ward implied he was soft for not playing?

So what happens when one of these guys decides to "man up" and play and winds up with irreversible brain damage?

It's a physical sport yes but there's a difference between playing with pain and playing injured. When a guy like Warner complains of foggy vision the last thing that should happen is he be pressured to play IMHO.

 

[Russ Smith]

Spent a decade making a living playing hockey, and was concussed a number of times. Puked my guts out, and couldn't be left alone for days, but, when asked if I could play... said... yes, every time.

I wasn't in my right mind, and you never are when you get your bell rung.

Additionally, I didn't want to let the guys down; be considered a wuss, or potentially lose my spot.

This is a decision that MUST be removed from the player, and the pressures that surround that role.

PS: I'm more than a little tired of hearing from the keyboard tough guys on this issue. And, any who think there is even a tangential relationship between sport concussions, global warming, H1N1, and the PC movement, are seriously concussed and should stay away from their computer.

 

[Totally_Red]

I would counter that the comments made by Hines Ward point out what's wrong. The mentality in football is the players are disposable, they're not human beings they're assets and when they get injured they either take painkillers and perform, or get tossed aside. Roethlisberger has won 2 Superbowls and stands there and takes more hits than any QB in the game, but Ward implied he was soft for not playing?

So what happens when one of these guys decides to "man up" and play and winds up with irreversible brain damage?

It's a physical sport yes but there's a difference between playing with pain and playing injured. When a guy like Warner complains of foggy vision the last thing that should happen is he be pressured to play IMHO.

Absolutely agree! A concussion is serious stuff and I for one am glad the NFL is starting to take it seriously. Mike Martz on NFL Network recommended that the league take it out of the team's hands and mandate a one-game benching for anyone suffering a concussion. It makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[justAndy]

Things that are wrecking my enjoyment of the NFL include Tom Brady yelling for "Brady Rule" roughing penalty when barely touched, loooong commercial breaks in national games, and corporate BS invading MY tailgate all rank above sitting a concussed player player for a game.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

The rugged physicality and violence that drew millions of Americans to this sport is now having a reverse effect on this sport.

I think there is a difference between "rugged physicality" and violence. And if millions of people are watching the game for the violence... I guess those are the same people who watch auto racing for the crashes.

I was raised "old school", Ohio River Valley, put your hand over your heart when you say the names Rocky Bleier, Jack Youngblood or Bob Waterfield, and save your money because we are taking a trip to Canton this summer. I was also raised to appreciate genius play calling and that good old-fashioned idea of playing with "heart". I wasn't raised to love this game because a bunch of guys plow into and over each other and come up bloody and whoo-ee isn't this fun?.

There's also such a thing as being smart and realising that most players in the NFL will play for a very limited number of years. They literally have their whole lifetimes ahead of them. As a fan I do not want nor do I expect the guys I admire and love to watch ruin themselves doing it. Are there going to be injuries? Of course. But is this game worth destroying your brain cells so a bunch of people can sit on their couches every Sunday and watch you do it and hope you knock yourself silly because they have you on their fantasy team? No.

 

[red desert]

Thank you for identifying yourself as someone I can put on ignore without risking missing anything worth reading.

Ditto.

 

[red desert]

Politics, gotta love them!

I think you meant politics from the wrong side of the aisle, in your opinion that is.

If you don't see the political commentary in the thread starter, then I can't help you, bro.

 

[Duckjake]

But is this game worth destroying your brain cells so a bunch of people can sit on their couches every Sunday and watch you do it and hope you knock yourself silly because they have you on their fantasy team? No.

Depends.

For $15 million or $20 million dollars I'd have to consider it. With proper management your family is set for life.

For the league minimum? Not so much.

 

[azsportsfan01]

You said, "You want to see them kill themselves for your entertainment."
Tell me honestly, have you ever watch MMA or UFC for entertainment?

I can't stand those so-called sports. I do enjoy watching boxing though. But there is a difference here. Oversight. A boxer, MMA fighter, whatever cannot fight unless he is cleared by a state's athletic commission. They don't care who wins or makes money all they are focused on is an athletes well being. That is why the NFL is makes strides in their treatment of concussions. They are mandating every team have an outside expert to evaluate players. The problem is currently, to a certain extent, it is left up to the player to decide if he can go. It needs to be completely taken away from a player. They aren't thinking about the future. These outside experts will be there to make the right decision so in 20-30 years these players can lead normal lives.

 

[DieHardCardFan]

I think you meant politics from the wrong side of the aisle, in your opinion that is.

If you don't see the political commentary in the thread starter, then I can't help you, bro.

I allign my seat on neither side of any imaginary aisle! And while I guess one could call PA's statements political, I know parties who reside on both sides of that ridiculous aisle that would agree with some of the statements.

 

[red desert]

I allign my seat on neither side of any imaginary aisle! And while I guess one could call PA's statements political, I know parties who reside on both sides of that ridiculous aisle that would agree with some of the statements.

I assure you there is nothing imaginary about the aisle. To say otherwise is simply trying to overstate one's own perceived "enlightenment."

 

[MadCardDisease]

The rugged physicality and violence that drew millions of Americans to this sport is now having a reverse effect on this sport. The feminization of America has now made its way to the NFL. Our culture has created so many fears (real or unreal), that we have become paralyzed to do anything. Whether its Global Warming, Swine Flu, Vaccines, etc, etc - everyone has become a victim. There is more evidence everyday that the above catastrophies are a hoax, so where do we really stand with concussions. I'm not saying that they should be disregarded, but if the NFL continues to SUPPOSEDLY take the safe path & sit players, then the sport of football will suffer immensely. The reality is that each individual reacts differently after a concussion. Only the player can tell whether he can play or not. Roethlesberger claims he could have played & Warner seems to be saying the same thing. But the heavy arm of PC in the NFL is forcing these decisions away from the players. A more common sense approach needs to be taken. Aiken had a ton of concussions as did Staubach & they did extremely well after they retired. Football is a violent sport & if we continue to fear monger, then the sport will lose great players to other sports.

I completely disagree on several accounts.

1) Most players in the NFL play injured at somepoint in the season. The question is where do you draw the line. The NFL is a business and always has been. Owners want to protect their investments. If that means sitting a player to preventv further damage then that player sits. It has nothing to do with feminization of football. Having Anquan Bolding playing at 50% actually hurts the team.

2) Dementia pugilistica is popping up a lot with older NFL players. It is also very common with boxers. Just because a hand full of players have had concussions and don't display these symptoms doesn't mean that others don't experience them. It also doesn't mean that those players won't eventually experience these symptoms later in life. If a player still has symptoms of a concussion then I have no problem with them sitting till they are comfortable playing. If a player truely wants to play they can always lie about their symptoms and potentially deal with any consequences later.

3) IMO the reason football is so great is more do to the fact that it's the ultimate team sport. There are all of the different battles going on that you can watch. There is the battles going on in the trenches. There are the one on one matchups in the secondary. Etc... Sure big hits are exciting to watch. But they are really a small part of this complex game that we call AMERICAN Football.

 

[Pariah]

Here's a good interview on the subject (upper left hand side is the play button).

http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/200911065

 

[Cardsfanstl]

So you think your entertainment is more important than a man's life?

Call me "feminized," but I think that's pretty disgusting.

I agree with you. Playerss long term health is more important than any game.

 

[Duckjake]

IMO the reason football is so great is more do to the fact that it's the ultimate team sport. There are all of the different battles going on that you can watch. There is the battles going on in the trenches. There are the one on one matchups in the secondary. Etc... Sure big hits are exciting to watch. But they are really a small part of this complex game that we call AMERICAN Football.

To the owners, players and coaches NFL football is great because they become famous, make lots of money and are treated like royalty. If you've ever seen a visiting team arrive at a hotel you know what I'm talking about.

To the fans football is great because we can tailgate, gamble, talk smack to opponents, have fantasy leagues, and actually have an impact on the games themselves.

 

[PACardsFan]

I agree with you. Playerss long term health is more important than any game.

Bottom line, that is essentially the point that I am making. I played football from the age of 10 throughout college. It was a different game back then. More wrapping when tackling & far less "shot out of a cannon" type tackling. Football exploded in this country when the latter became the norm. I never said that we should disregard concussions. Factually, the jury is still out on the whole topic. What ultimately causes them? What can the sport do to avoid them? What are the long-term effects? The NFL & football in general have been trying to answer these questions for many years now. Those questions have not been answered in such a way as to satisfy people's concerns. My point is that what made the NFL great (extreme physicality) is now hurting the sport. American football grew in this country because athletic kids chose it over the likes of baseball, basketball, etc, etc. As the fears escalate over long-term effects of concussing, Parents & kids just may move back to sports where concussions are not the norm. Now won't that hurt the sport of football? Why hasn't the NFL gotten to the bottom of this? Maybe they have. It may be an injury that is inherent to the sport & impossible to eradicate. Should we shrink the players, or put speed reducers on them. Or maybe we need to strengthen the helmet, but won't that lead to more knee injuries sustained from that very helmet.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but should I expect personal attacks for stating an opinion? I happen to be quite an authority on head injuries. I have an 11 yr old who suffered a stroke at birth & now suffers from mental retardation & cerebral palsy. My youngest (7) is driving me nuts wanting to play football. He's a great athlete & is light years ahead of kids his age in every sport he plays. Why wouldn't I try to dissuade him from playing football? Is my son the only exceptional athlete who will have a choice btween sports? No. As we see more & more great football players being sidelined for because of concussions, the sport of football will suffer. The greatest fear is fear of the unknown. The whole topic of concussions are still in the unknown category. How about getting to the bottom of the issue.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Now that I think about it. The biggest thing I'm worried about killing the NFL is going to an Uncapped system.

 

[LDL]

George Carlin said it best...

 

[82CardsGrad]

Bottom line, that is essentially the point that I am making. I played football from the age of 10 throughout college. It was a different game back then. More wrapping when tackling & far less "shot out of a cannon" type tackling. Football exploded in this country when the latter became the norm. I never said that we should disregard concussions. Factually, the jury is still out on the whole topic. What ultimately causes them? What can the sport do to avoid them? What are the long-term effects? The NFL & football in general have been trying to answer these questions for many years now. Those questions have not been answered in such a way as to satisfy people's concerns. My point is that what made the NFL great (extreme physicality) is now hurting the sport. American football grew in this country because athletic kids chose it over the likes of baseball, basketball, etc, etc. As the fears escalate over long-term effects of concussing, Parents & kids just may move back to sports where concussions are not the norm. Now won't that hurt the sport of football? Why hasn't the NFL gotten to the bottom of this? Maybe they have. It may be an injury that is inherent to the sport & impossible to eradicate. Should we shrink the players, or put speed reducers on them. Or maybe we need to strengthen the helmet, but won't that lead to more knee injuries sustained from that very helmet.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but should I expect personal attacks for stating an opinion? I happen to be quite an authority on head injuries. I have an 11 yr old who suffered a stroke at birth & now suffers from mental retardation & cerebral palsy. My youngest (7) is driving me nuts wanting to play football. He's a great athlete & is light years ahead of kids his age in every sport he plays. Why wouldn't I try to dissuade him from playing football? Is my son the only exceptional athlete who will have a choice btween sports? No. As we see more & more great football players being sidelined for because of concussions, the sport of football will suffer. The greatest fear is fear of the unknown. The whole topic of concussions are still in the unknown category. How about getting to the bottom of the issue.

Very well said. You have my sincerest respect dude as you deal with quite a challenge with your 11 year old. I agree with all you have said and as a father of a 13 year old son who has played football for 4 consecutive years, I would not mind at all if he told me he didn't want to play any longer...
For the true exceptional athletes, why would you enter the game of football and risk life-changing injuries with pay that is largely not guaranteed, when you can play sports such as baseball and basketball where serious injuries are far less and the pay is far greater and GUARANTEED!

 

[jaguarpaw81]

Bottom line, that is essentially the point that I am making. I played football from the age of 10 throughout college. It was a different game back then. More wrapping when tackling & far less "shot out of a cannon" type tackling. Football exploded in this country when the latter became the norm. I never said that we should disregard concussions. Factually, the jury is still out on the whole topic. What ultimately causes them? What can the sport do to avoid them? What are the long-term effects? The NFL & football in general have been trying to answer these questions for many years now. Those questions have not been answered in such a way as to satisfy people's concerns. My point is that what made the NFL great (extreme physicality) is now hurting the sport. American football grew in this country because athletic kids chose it over the likes of baseball, basketball, etc, etc. As the fears escalate over long-term effects of concussing, Parents & kids just may move back to sports where concussions are not the norm. Now won't that hurt the sport of football? Why hasn't the NFL gotten to the bottom of this? Maybe they have. It may be an injury that is inherent to the sport & impossible to eradicate. Should we shrink the players, or put speed reducers on them. Or maybe we need to strengthen the helmet, but won't that lead to more knee injuries sustained from that very helmet.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but should I expect personal attacks for stating an opinion? I happen to be quite an authority on head injuries. I have an 11 yr old who suffered a stroke at birth & now suffers from mental retardation & cerebral palsy. My youngest (7) is driving me nuts wanting to play football. He's a great athlete & is light years ahead of kids his age in every sport he plays. Why wouldn't I try to dissuade him from playing football? Is my son the only exceptional athlete who will have a choice btween sports? No. As we see more & more great football players being sidelined for because of concussions, the sport of football will suffer. The greatest fear is fear of the unknown. The whole topic of concussions are still in the unknown category. How about getting to the bottom of the issue.

Amen.

 

[conraddobler]

I think what they need is radical new equipment, possibly looking at traiding out all hard plastics for something like a kevlar padding.

Anyone ever suited up in a football uniform that ever took a wicked hit knows that all that plastic feels like a freakin brick wall at top speed.

I only played in high school, with kids, I can't imagine a full grown NFL player hitting me at full speed that's ridiculous..

The playing surfaces should all be grass too, much more forgiving, I think that's extended Warners career wonderfully and the Cardinals have the best stadium in the NFL, climate control AND natural grass, kudos.

If they really cared they'd mandate natural turf from here on out and probably design entirely new equipment.

ENTIRELY new not tweaking stuff but that would probably ruin their image so they fake caring about it IMO and go full PC about it.

That's the kind of stuff today that just ticks me off, everyone playing at caring.

I'm not saying all of them because I don't know for sure but it's freaking obvious it's the hard plastic causing a lot of this, and the turf too but that's not being dealt with because of image and cost IMO.

 

[Folster]

Improving equipment will solve nothing. As equipment improves, players will just hit harder and more violently because they feel protected and safe underneath the latest padding and gear. The same goes for cars with seat belts airbags and other safety devices; People drive faster and more carelessly. The solution to the problem would be to take off the padding and helmets and go at it rugby style. I guarantee you won't see players launching themselves at the opposition like missiles anymore.

 

[Cardsfanstl]

Now that you put it that way you make some sense.

Kudos.

Bottom line, that is essentially the point that I am making. I played football from the age of 10 throughout college. It was a different game back then. More wrapping when tackling & far less "shot out of a cannon" type tackling. Football exploded in this country when the latter became the norm. I never said that we should disregard concussions. Factually, the jury is still out on the whole topic. What ultimately causes them? What can the sport do to avoid them? What are the long-term effects? The NFL & football in general have been trying to answer these questions for many years now. Those questions have not been answered in such a way as to satisfy people's concerns. My point is that what made the NFL great (extreme physicality) is now hurting the sport. American football grew in this country because athletic kids chose it over the likes of baseball, basketball, etc, etc. As the fears escalate over long-term effects of concussing, Parents & kids just may move back to sports where concussions are not the norm. Now won't that hurt the sport of football? Why hasn't the NFL gotten to the bottom of this? Maybe they have. It may be an injury that is inherent to the sport & impossible to eradicate. Should we shrink the players, or put speed reducers on them. Or maybe we need to strengthen the helmet, but won't that lead to more knee injuries sustained from that very helmet.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but should I expect personal attacks for stating an opinion? I happen to be quite an authority on head injuries. I have an 11 yr old who suffered a stroke at birth & now suffers from mental retardation & cerebral palsy. My youngest (7) is driving me nuts wanting to play football. He's a great athlete & is light years ahead of kids his age in every sport he plays. Why wouldn't I try to dissuade him from playing football? Is my son the only exceptional athlete who will have a choice btween sports? No. As we see more & more great football players being sidelined for because of concussions, the sport of football will suffer. The greatest fear is fear of the unknown. The whole topic of concussions are still in the unknown category. How about getting to the bottom of the issue.

 

[earthsci]

Improving equipment will solve nothing. As equipment improves, players will just hit harder and more violently because they feel protected and safe underneath the latest padding and gear. The same goes for cars with seat belts airbags and other safety devices; People drive faster and more carelessly. The solution to the problem would be to take off the padding and helmets and go at it rugby style. I guarantee you won't see players launching themselves at the opposition like missiles anymore.

I disagree. Put all the padding that you want on Adrian Wilson, Chuck Cecil, players of that ilk. They can't hit any harder than they do/did already hit.

 

[Lloydian]

PACardsFan: I don't know how old you are, but football is so huge in this country because of its team features and adapability to television. The huge hits have been around for a very, very long time. Just ask Deacon Jones. Or ask Fred Williamson. And those guys are relatively recent as well.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but should I expect personal attacks for stating an opinion?

As to expecting personal attacks, that comes from making politically charged statements. When we see:

Whether its Global Warming, Swine Flu, Vaccines, etc, etc - everyone has become a victim. There is more evidence everyday that the above catastrophies are a hoax, so where do we really stand with concussions.

You open yourself up to criticism of your agenda.

And as a final point, people playing to the point of permanent impairment is not something I want in a sport. If my team has to play hampered for a week, that's a small price to pay for a man's well being. Besides, we're going to be the third seed in the NFC either way.