What Next?

[George O'Brien]

It is beginnng to look like that deal sending Shaq to the Heat will not only go through, but meet with Kobe's approval such that he will stay a Laker. If that is the case, it is extremely likely that the Clippers will match on Q.

I haven't really accepted Q the way I have Nash because I always figured he would end up re-signing with the Clippers. At the same time, I'm not really enthusiastic about him as a player although I'm sure he would help.

Where does this leave the Suns? My guess is that they have between $6 million to $7 million in cap space. Is there anyone left worth going after?

One name that has dropped from discussion has been Dampier. Everyone has big questions about why he did not play as well in previous years, etc.; but my guess is that his agent has been too agressive and scared most teams off. Assuming the Clippler match on Q, I'm not sure where is can get his price in a straight free agency deal. The most the Suns could offer would be roughtly a $50 million over six years, but that might be his best offer if there are no sign and trades.

Stromile Swift is an RFA and it was believed that Memphis will match, but that was before they signed Cardinal. Cardinal will play mostly PF (Wells and Posey are going to be their main SF guys). Logic suggests a trade of Swift for Dampier, but little has been said about it. I would much rather have Swift than Richardson, but it is certainly a long shot.

The Suns said they felt the asking price for Ostertag was too high. If he doesn't re-sign with Utah, he might be available although I'm not sure he would be cheap enough.

Another option would be to bring in Vujanic after all. I've always figured he would be used more at SG than PF any way.

I'd like to figure out a way to get a big guy. I'm not excited by the available options, but you play the hand you are dealt.

 

[Dave64]

Nothing is next, in regards to FA if Q stays in LA. I like Q, but the Suns tied their own hands by doing this offer sheet. If the Clips do resign Q, they will wait until the 29th to do it so the Suns can't make any other moves. Colangelo really tied our hands by offering a guy who will get mathced from day one. Major mistake. Our only options to improve now is trades, which means moving Marion.

 

[cepstrum]

It is beginnng to look like that deal sending Shaq to the Heat will not only go through, but meet with Kobe's approval such that he will stay a Laker. If that is the case, it is extremely likely that the Clippers will match on Q.

I haven't really accepted Q the way I have Nash because I always figured he would end up re-signing with the Clippers. At the same time, I'm not really enthusiastic about him as a player although I'm sure he would help.

Where does this leave the Suns? My guess is that they have between $6 million to $7 million in cap space. Is there anyone left worth going after?

One name that has dropped from discussion has been Dampier. Everyone has big questions about why he did not play as well in previous years, etc.; but my guess is that his agent has been too agressive and scared most teams off. Assuming the Clippler match on Q, I'm not sure where is can get his price in a straight free agency deal. The most the Suns could offer would be roughtly a $50 million over six years, but that might be his best offer if there are no sign and trades.

Stromile Swift is an RFA and it was believed that Memphis will match, but that was before they signed Cardinal. Cardinal will play mostly PF (Wells and Posey are going to be their main SF guys). Logic suggests a trade of Swift for Dampier, but little has been said about it. I would much rather have Swift than Richardson, but it is certainly a long shot.

The Suns said they felt the asking price for Ostertag was too high. If he doesn't re-sign with Utah, he might be available although I'm not sure he would be cheap enough.

Another option would be to bring in Vujanic after all. I've always figured he would be used more at SG than PF any way.

I'd like to figure out a way to get a big guy. I'm not excited by the available options, but you play the hand you are dealt.

Outside of Damp (a very long shot) I would just sit on the money and facilitate trades throughout the year. We can gather picks (see Jazz last year) and then trade them at a later point.

 

[George O'Brien]

Nothing is next, in regards to FA if Q stays in LA. I like Q, but the Suns tied their own hands by doing this offer sheet. If the Clips do resign Q, they will wait until the 29th to do it so the Suns can't make any other moves. Colangelo really tied our hands by offering a guy who will get mathced from day one. Major mistake. Our only options to improve now is trades, which means moving Marion.

I would think the Suns could pull out of the deal prior to the 14th if Q agreed. He might even feel he could get a better deal from the Clips than this deal since they would have more cap space. The Suns were shopping for a backup guard, while the Clips would not have a starting guard once Kobe is out of the picture.

 

[fordronken]

Nothing is next, in regards to FA if Q stays in LA. I like Q, but the Suns tied their own hands by doing this offer sheet. If the Clips do resign Q, they will wait until the 29th to do it so the Suns can't make any other moves. Colangelo really tied our hands by offering a guy who will get mathced from day one. Major mistake. Our only options to improve now is trades, which means moving Marion.

I'd much rather move the Chicago pick than Marion.

 

[George O'Brien]

I'd much rather move the Chicago pick than Marion.

The most likely scenerio would be to become part of a multiteam deal where someone needs cap space. Hopefully, the Suns can unload Eisley at the same time.

 

[fordronken]

Here's an extension of my earlier post, as I gave it more thought.

I'd rather use the pick on raw type players who are at least slightly farther along. Do you think the Clips would consider a deal like Wilcox and Ely for Caparkapa, Vujanic and the Chicago pick? It seems like a lot, I know, but it would fill our needs and give us two guys with potential that isn't quite so far down the road. Any centers we'd get with Chicago's pick would take a while to be ready. That would give us Vroman, Stoudemire, Lampe, Wilcox, Ely and Voskuhl to man the front two spots. I'd be pretty happy with that, particularly if we end up keeping Q to shore up our depth on the wing.

Even without Q-Rich:

PG- Nash/Barbosa/Eisley
SG- Johnson/Jacobsen/Barbosa
SF- Marion/Johnson/Jacobsen
PF- Amare/Lampe/Vroman/Ely/Wilcox
C- Voskuhl/Lampe/Vroman/Ely/Wilcox

1. Nash
2. Johnson
3. Marion
4. Stoudemire
5. Voskuhl
6. Barbosa
7. Eisley
8. Jacobsen
9. Lampe
10. Vroman
11. Ely
12. Wilcox

That's 12 players right there, and then we could add a veteran to fill out the wing, or ideally, get Q-Rich.

Ely and Wilcox are a little undersized to play center, but quite honestly, this looks a lot better to me than a lot of the other options.

 

[George O'Brien]

I suspect the Clips would just give Ely away for a second round pick. Wilcox actually started to play pretty well late in the season and as they started to use him at center much the way the Suns use Amare. I can't really see them letting Wilcox go at this point.

Is Ely a total stiff? He only got into 42 games this season and had only 2.4 rpg in 12.1 minutes. I'd blow a second on him, but not much more. Since he would be a team option next season, the Suns could just dump him if he didn't show anything.

 

[sly fly]

Why does everybody want to trade Vujanic?

If the Suns wanted Q (and, he possibly ends up in Clipperland again), why don't the Suns just offer a little less to Vujanic?

From what I've seen (a few games here and there), he's a player who will help this team immediately. He won't score in the post like Q would, but he could get up and down the court with Nash. Or, he could be a replacement if Marion is traded for a big.

It would be a very nice consolation prize, with the chance of becoming a real bargain.

 

[Bada0Bing]

yeah, I'm not optimistic about Vujanic. If he was great then the C's would have him over here by now.

 

[sunsfn]

The suns are probably going to sign a fringe center like Rebracka? (spelling) or bring back Williams if he is able to play another year.

They will sign somebody though, they will not go into this year with what they have at center unless they think Vroman can start for them.
The chance of that happening is very slim, even if he turns out to be a decent player.

George said,
-----------------------------------
I would think the Suns could pull out of the deal prior to the 14th if Q agreed. He might even feel he could get a better deal from the Clips than this deal since they would have more cap space. The Suns were shopping for a backup guard, while the Clips would not have a starting guard once Kobe is out of the picture.
------------------------------------------------
George, I do not think the suns can pull out of any deal with Q.
See my post here.........http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=33200&page=2

 

[Sunshooter]

How about Chris Mihm?

He's strong and fast.

He's a restricted player but I think Celtics won't match our offer.

 

[binkar]

Nothing is next, in regards to FA if Q stays in LA. I like Q, but the Suns tied their own hands by doing this offer sheet. If the Clips do resign Q, they will wait until the 29th to do it so the Suns can't make any other moves. Colangelo really tied our hands by offering a guy who will get mathced from day one. Major mistake. Our only options to improve now is trades, which means moving Marion.

Dave64,

I dont get how this can be considered a bad move. When there is a player you like you do everything to go after him. They did that. They obviously didnt think there was going to be a player as valuable as Q for their price. The only other player that could have even been worth the money IMO would be Swift but he was even more of a long shot.

 

[Mainstreet]

Maybe the Clips will resign Q as early as the 14th. Why? Perhaps the Suns and Clips did not have an adversarial relationship to the Suns signing Q to an offer sheet.

Perhaps it was understood that if the Clips did not sign Kobe the Suns would just stand down because the Clips would resign Q. If the Clips had signed Kobe, Q would probably have been on his way anyway. Just a thought.

Perhaps the Suns had explored this option with the Clips before signing Q to an offer sheet. Not all relationships with GM's have to be antagonistic. This would also help the Clips establish Q's value for resigning purposes.

 

[elindholm]

It really depends on what the Clippers think of the remaining FA market once the onslaught of advance agreements becomes official on the 14th. Maybe they'd rather use their money on someone other than Richardson -- e.g. Dampier -- or use their space to make an advantageous trade.

I can see lots of good reasons for the Clippers to take their entire two weeks to decide, even if they don't have an adversarial relationship with the Suns. It's just good strategy. Now whether they'll use good strategy is, of course, another question.

 

[fordronken]

I just realized that Rebraca was born in 1972! I thought he was still a young prospect. Why did I think that? Anyway, no wonder he hasn't gotten a 40 million dollar contract yet.

 

[Dave64]

Dave64,

I dont get how this can be considered a bad move. When there is a player you like you do everything to go after him. They did that. They obviously didnt think there was going to be a player as valuable as Q for their price. The only other player that could have even been worth the money IMO would be Swift but he was even more of a long shot.

I would consider it a bad move because he could have signed Brent Barry when we are waiting to find out what we already know: Q will be resigned because Kobe is going nowhere. I would rather have a Berry in the hand than a Q in the bush!

 

[Joe Mama]

Dave64,

I dont get how this can be considered a bad move. When there is a player you like you do everything to go after him. They did that. They obviously didnt think there was going to be a player as valuable as Q for their price. The only other player that could have even been worth the money IMO would be Swift but he was even more of a long shot.

I would consider it a bad move because he could have signed Brent Barry when we are waiting to find out what we already know: Q will be resigned because Kobe is going nowhere. I would rather have a Berry in the hand than a Q in the bush!

Perhaps Brent Barry wanted to play for a title contender. I know that's been mentioned several times this week in the papers. Perhaps they didn't want to spend a bunch of money on another thirtysomething player with questionable durability. If San Antonio had to spend $24 million you can bet Phoenix would have had to offer at least $30 million.

The way I look at it the Phoenix Suns probably weren't impressed with the rest of the free-agent market. The the only problem with offering Richardson is that they've tied up money that might have been used in a trade over the next week or so.

Joe Mama

 

[Dave64]

Lost opportunity cost. That has been my entire argument.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It really depends on what the Clippers think of the remaining FA market once the onslaught of advance agreements becomes official on the 14th. Maybe they'd rather use their money on someone other than Richardson -- e.g. Dampier -- or use their space to make an advantageous trade.

I can see lots of good reasons for the Clippers to take their entire two weeks to decide, even if they don't have an adversarial relationship with the Suns. It's just good strategy. Now whether they'll use good strategy is, of course, another question.

They have used such strategy in the past.

Is'nt it true that while the Clips have to match the Suns offer, Q doesn't have to sign such an offer? He can demand a 1 year deal and be unrestricted next year. They might have some sort of plan to do this.

The Suns could sweeten the pot a little bit by offering Casey or some inconsequential (second round) pick. That might get the Clips to back off and look elsewhere.

 

[F-Dog]

The way I look at it the Phoenix Suns probably weren't impressed with the rest of the free-agent market. The the only problem with offering Richardson is that they've tied up money that might have been used in a trade over the next week or so.

Joe Mama

This is pretty much what I'm thinking. Richardson was at the end of the Suns' FA list, so it's not going to matter that their money is tied up for a month--they're not planning to throw their money at Dice, or Tag, or Brent Barry in any case.

The Suns also submarined the Nuggets by doing this, and Denver seems to be one of the team's major rivals among the up-and-coming young teams.

 

[F-Dog]

They have used such strategy in the past.

Is'nt it true that while the Clips have to match the Suns offer, Q doesn't have to sign such an offer? He can demand a 1 year deal and be unrestricted next year. They might have some sort of plan to do this.

I don't think so. My impression is that once the contract is signed, somebody is going to be paying it--either the Suns or the Clippers. If Richardson really wants to get away from the Clips, he has to sign the 1-year tender offer and stay there for another year.

Compensation has to be decided on in advance, too. You can't turn a signed offer into a S&T.

 

[fordronken]

They have used such strategy in the past.

Is'nt it true that while the Clips have to match the Suns offer, Q doesn't have to sign such an offer? He can demand a 1 year deal and be unrestricted next year. They might have some sort of plan to do this.

No. That's how players like Marc Jackson and Ricky Davis got stuck in places they didn't want to be. By signing a contract as an RFA it means that somebody is going to be honoring it. Either who gave it to you, or who matched it. That's the risk that Odom took last year not wanting to stay with the Clips.

 

[Joe Mama]

Think Elton Brand or Corey Maggette. Both of those players signed offer sheets with other teams, but those offers were matched by the LA Clippers. In fact I believe brand's contract is even frontloaded. That was done in an effort to discourage the Clippers from matching the contract offer.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Think Elton Brand or Corey Maggette. Both of those players signed offer sheets with other teams, but those offers were matched by the LA Clippers. In fact I believe brand's contract is even frontloaded. That was done in an effort to discourage the Clippers from matching the contract offer.

Joe Mama

They let Miller and Odom go because neither guys really played well their last year with the Cavs. Miller in particular looked awful. By contrast, they matched on Brand and Maggette who had good years.

One of their problems was that it was difficult to have Brand, Odom, and Maggette in the lineup at the same time. Maggette is not really suited to SG and Brand is not really suited to playing center. Even if Odom CAN play PF, Brand is vastly better at it, so paying big bucks to both Odom and Maggette meant paying high dollars for a backup. This is NOT something the Clippers would do.

Richardson had a pretty good year and there is no other guard that looks even faintly like a decent player. The ONLY reason they would not re-sign would be Sterling. On any other team the chances of Richardson not being re-signed would be about 10%. With the Clippers, it is maybe 50-50.