What Should the Suns Shopping List Look Like?

[George O'Brien]

The Suns are an odd. Team. For a team that is in last place in the West, they are unusual. Typically bad teams need everything. But when considering the draft and free agency, it is pretty clear that the Suns shopping list is actually pretty short. Unfortunately, it seems to be made up of "hard to find items".

1. Consistent outside shooter that can make his own shots. The Suns problems with zones can be easily attributed to the their inconsistent outside shooting. Opponents are willing to let the Suns shoot from the outside because they will miss over 2/3 of their their tries.

Kobe is easily the best shooter available. What happens if Kobe does not become a Suns. There is hope that Vujanic will be able to help, but that has yet to be provent. Brent Barry is 32 and has had some injuries lately, but he will be in high demand.

2. Strong defense oriented center who can play long minutes. Voskuhl is not very good on defense and White is too slow for most opponents. Most of the centers on the market are going to be pretty expensive. One guy that might be affordable is Mark Blount of the Celtics. He has been playing very well lately and the Celtics do not have Bird rights on him.

3. Pass first point guard. None of the players the Suns have been using at point are "pass first" point guards. Unless one of the Suns guards develop more skill running the offense, they may need help.

4. Backup power forward. Currently Stoudemire is playing extensive minutes, but that is difficult to sustain. Neither Harveny nor McDyess have been consistently strong enough to permit Amare to reduce his minutes.

Items #3 and #4 are less important than the first two, but shooters and good defensive centers are really hard to find.

 

[slinslin]

Get the best players available in the next 2 years.

Everything else doesn't really matter much.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien

Items #3 and #4 are less important than the first two, but shooters and good defensive centers are really hard to find.

Are you totally against Casey? His shooting has improved, and if it continues to improve, he can easily fill that shooter role you tout.

I agree with your assessment of defensive centers, but there just aren't that many around. So you can either throw up your hands and give up, or figure out some way to compensate for that lack. In this league, you have to find a way to compsensate because a defensive center worthy to be a starter, just won't fall into our laps, and in fact, is very difficult to come by nowadays.

That's why I, and many others, give you such a hard time when you consistently harp on getting a defensive center. There just aren't any to get. So it's either continue to lament about it or get on with life and face the reality of the situation.

 

[scotsman13]

the biggest weakness on this team is being young.

not kobe or anyother free agent with change this team from making simple mistakes that can be clearly seen as this teams take a lead and doesnt know what do with it and end up give up that lead.

 

[F-Dog]

Even with Vujanic, I think the team still needs another G/F who can pass, and (of course) a center. They should get one of the two in the draft, which leaves one more need for free agency.

Shaun Livingston/Vlade Divac would be nice, or Brent Barry/Martynas Andriuskevicius. Add Vujanic and fill the team out with a couple of bench jockeys at PF and C, and the Suns are ready to go...

 

[Dr. Dumas]

My Christmas list is:

Kobe
Divac
Sign the Euro pg

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by scotsman13
the biggest weakness on this team is being young.

not kobe or any other free agent with change this team from making simple mistakes that can be clearly seen as this teams take a lead and doesnt know what do with it and end up give up that lead.

Or maybe the other team starts kicking it up a notch when a team whose record they don't respect suddenly gets a lead.

The Suns don't lack just experience. They also lack depth.

 

[scotsman13]

Originally posted by slinslin
The Suns don't lack just experience. They also lack depth.

depth? depth? really there is only one spot on this team that doesnt have a lot of depth and that is center. there is a lot of talent on this team the problem is that it is experienced.

power forward
amare
harvey
lampe
zarko

small forward
marion
casey
jj
zarko

center
jake
white
lampe

shooting guard
jj
casey
barbosa

point guard
barbosa
eisley
jj

every spot on this team is at least 3 deep with the weakest spot at center.

 

[slinslin]

If any team considers their scrubs and projects depth than any team is deep.


Voshkul, White, McDyess, Harvey, Jacobsen, Eisley, Lampe, Zarko that's not depth. That's a bunch of 3rd string roster fillers on deep teams right now.

The Suns have some prospects right now. But that doesn't win you games.

If the Suns can sign a player of Kobe Bryant's level they will wether you like that or not and they would likely part with anything to make it happen except Amare Stoudemire.

 

[George O'Brien]

Re: Re: What Should the Suns Shopping List Look Like?

Originally posted by Chaplin
Are you totally against Casey? His shooting has improved, and if it continues to improve, he can easily fill that shooter role you tout.

I like Casey, but I'm not convinced he is going to be the long term solution for the Suns. At this point he cannot make his own shot and lacks a middle range shot. In any case, no team ever has too many good shooters.

I agree with your assessment of defensive centers, but there just aren't that many around. So you can either throw up your hands and give up, or figure out some way to compensate for that lack. In this league, you have to find a way to compsensate because a defensive center worthy to be a starter, just won't fall into our laps, and in fact, is very difficult to come by nowadays.

That's why I, and many others, give you such a hard time when you consistently harp on getting a defensive center. There just aren't any to get. So it's either continue to lament about it or get on with life and face the reality of the situation.

You noticed that I said getting a good defensive center would be hard didn't you? I keep hoping that Lampe will develop physically, but right now I am assuming he will better on offense than defense for a while.

Assuming the Suns move White to clear cap space, then the Suns will need to look for his replacement. Assuming the entire cap space has not been used up by signing Kobe, then the Suns might look at guys like Etan Thomas (RFA) and Mark Blount (FA with no Bird rights). Are they championship level? No way. Are they better than what the Suns have? I have little doubt.

 

[Ryanwb]

Originally posted by Dr. Dumas
My Christmas list is:

Kobe
Divac
Sign the Euro pg

I love the irony....The Lakers traded Divac for Kobe, now they play together in Phoenix

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Ryanwb
I love the irony....The Lakers traded Divac for Kobe, now they play together in Phoenix

Two months ago I really though that Divac might come over. However, the way he has been playing it seems doubtful that the Kings will let him go without a fight. He is playing as well as anytime in recent memory.

Rats.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think the most important thing is to make sure we don't overpay anybody, and NOT sign somebody for the sake of signing somebody.

My first priority would be to clear enough cap space to make a run at Kobe, and make sure Milos Vujanic is in the Suns uniform next October.

Stefan

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
I think the most important thing is to make sure we don't overpay anybody, and NOT sign somebody for the sake of signing somebody.

That is always the risk in free agency. Grant Hill was not overpaid IF HE HAD BEEN HEALTHY. Googs was a bad fit for the Suns, but he did not really lose value until he go hurt. Ditto for Penny. The only way to be SURE of not overpaying is to only sign guys to one year deals. Unfortuntely, that is not the way to win championships.

We can probably talk ourselves out of every player in the FA market. All of them will be overpaid, some by a lot more than others. The trick is to figure out which is which.

 

[Errntknght]

George O' >>Assuming the Suns move White to clear cap space, then the Suns will need to look for his replacement. Assuming the entire cap space has not been used up by signing Kobe, then the Suns might look at guys like Etan Thomas (RFA) and Mark Blount (FA with no Bird rights). Are they championship level? No way. Are they better than what the Suns have? I have little doubt.<<

If the Suns do get another center then let's hope they look for someone who can play the high post effectively. A jouneyman low post center would probably be detrimental to the team - he'd take time away from Lampe and ****** his progress. Just as bad he'd keep the team from developing a high post offense while cluttering the low post area where Amare operates so well. Personally, I'd just as soon have only Jake and Lampe so D'Antoni would be forced to play the latter and eventually discover the value of the high post alignment. We probably will have to get another coach to make a contender out of the team but if D'A could do that much his stay may not be a total waste of time.

 

[elindholm]

guys like Etan Thomas (RFA) and Mark Blount (FA with no Bird rights). Are they championship level? No way. Are they better than what the Suns have? I have little doubt.

The grass is always greener. Blount's rebounds-per-48 stat is barely better than Voskuhl's -- in fact his career number is lower -- and Thomas is a power forward masquerading as a center (no way is he 6' 10", as given on NBA.com). I guarantee that you'd find them just as lacking as the current Suns centers if they were on the team.

 

[sly fly]

The goal should be for Kobe.

Anything less would be uncivilized.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
guys like Etan Thomas (RFA) and Mark Blount (FA with no Bird rights). Are they championship level? No way. Are they better than what the Suns have? I have little doubt.

The grass is always greener. Blount's rebounds-per-48 stat is barely better than Voskuhl's -- in fact his career number is lower --....I guarantee that you'd find them just as lacking as the current Suns centers if they were on the team.

I have not seen Blount lately, but his stats over the past month or so are vastly better than his stats for the year. Beginning on Feb 22, his rebounding has been:

11 against the Lakers
10 against the Sonics
10 against the Bucks
11 against the Raptors
10 against the Raptors
21 against the Magic
7 against the Wizzards
11 against the Timberwolves
17 against the Knicks

His numbers have improved as his playing time has increased, which suggests his defense is getting better with fewer fouls.

Maybe this is a fluke, but he is a big reason the Celtics are playing well right now. In any case, he is currently making $950,000, so he might be had for a reasonable amount. If the Suns offload White, they will need someone to replace him. Blount could be emerging as a competant center and at least give the Suns a guy who can block shots and rebound in traffic.

Is he better than Jake? He certainly has better stats. The most conspicuous being his blocks per game of 1.26 versus Jake's .38.

Mark Blount
Boston Celtics
Position: C
Height: 7-0 Weight: 250
College: Pittsburgh '99
Player file | Team stats

2003-04 Statistics
PPG 9.3
RPG 6.4
APG 1.0
SPG .91
BPG 1.26
FG% .546
FT% .725
3P% .000
MPG 28.1

Jake Voskuhl
Phoenix Suns
Position: C
Height: 6-11 Weight: 245
College: Connecticut '00
Player file | Team stats

2003-04 Statistics
PPG 6.8
RPG 5.2
APG .8
SPG .63
BPG .38
FG% .507
FT% .753
3P% .000
MPG 24.5

I don't know how high I would go for Blount. I think he would be a bargain at $3 million and may attract a bit more than that. The fact that he has only come on lately should discourage frantic bidding.

The Suns might be a very attractive team for Blount if the money is right. He should start and would be playing on an up and coming team that is not being torn apart like the Celtics have been.

Should the Suns try to get Blount? It all depends on the price. I think he would help but not enough to justify overpaying.

 

[Joe Mama]

Some team like Portland, New York, or Dallas will offer a guy like Mark Blount the mid-level exception this summer. I think that it's just too much to pay for 10-20 games of good basketball.

Joe Mama

 

[sly fly]

George,

It's like trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip.

Pretty soon you'll be wanting us to go after some unknown 9'6" behemoth from Inner Siberia.

Kobe should be on your mind. And, nothing else.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Some team like Portland, New York, or Dallas will offer a guy like Mark Blount the mid-level exception this summer. I think that it's just too much to pay for 10-20 games of good basketball.

Joe Mama

I can see Dallas going to mid cap. Portland? I would really doubt it. I can't make any sense out of the Knicks so maybe you are right.

This is the same question that comes up whenever we discuss centers. Even marginally competant centers can be viewed as being overpaid. Guys who are consistently productive are very expensive because they are so rare.

I don't know what the answer is. Voskuhl is backup class center. Lampe could be three years from being a starter. None of the centers in the draft are likely to be much help for at least a couple of years. The above the mid cap centers in the FA market are going to be very expensive and most are injury prone or aging.

It is easy to make a case against every center that is even conceivably available: too expensive, too slow, too injury prone, etc. But that does not make Jake a starting class center nor Lampe a five year veteran. But that is all the Suns will have if they send away White.

The Suns will move White. The Colangelos need to at least go through the motions of going after Kobe. But then they will have to replace him.