What the 2013 Draft Teaches Us About Keim

[kerouac9]

Read this thread if you want to know how Keim drafts players:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb...-breaks-down-highly-regarded-haul-194604.html

I've read that board, and it's essentially a transcription of Keim's press conferences after each day.

I'll definitely give Keim credit for one thing: he has excellent message discipline. He has his talking points, and he tends not to deviate from them or expand on them one bit.

BTW, Keim did say that the Okafor pick in particular filled a need.

 

[kerouac9]

The 2013 draft only taught me one thing...that kerouac9 is the Kwisatz Haderach!

I can't see the future, I can just see all possible futures at once.

 

[Chopper0080]

Priceless. Way to try and take the discussion in a completely different direction. Where have I even uttered that I think Keim did a great job or anything of the sort. I have not made my feelings on how well I think the Keim and Co draft process went at all. I have only reminded you that you have no idea what the thought process behind the picks were and NEITHER DO I. You're claim that it was based on NEED is entirely unfounded and has no factual basis whatsoever. That is fact.




That's not what I asked. Yet another poor attempt to try and drive the discussion away from your ridiculous arguments. I asked you what let you to believe Keim and Co downgraded pass rushers on their draft broad because as you said THEY dont have any confidence in their abilities to draft pass rushers well? In other words what makes you think they dont have any confidence in their abilities to draft pass rushers, apart from your opinion that they dont. I suspects as with just about everything else you have claimed here there is no factual basis whatsoever behind it and its just pure speculation. If if it is the latter it would be fine except assert it as though its fact.

The facts are that prior to the draft we needed to upgrade our offensive line, and the position that offered us the biggest upgrade was at OG. We needed to upgrade at S because our depth chart consisted of Rashad Johnson, Yerimiah Bell and Justin Bethel. We also need to upgrade at both the outside linebacker and inside linebacker positions because Schofield hasnt' stayed healthy and Washington got suspended.

Then, during the draft at #7 we identified Jonathan Cooper as the best available player who fit one of our needs, OG. Keim made a pick on a player who filled a need. In round 2, Keim decided to trade back because he had several players similarly ranked, and then picked Kevin Minter who filled a need at ILB. In the 3rd round he picked Mathieu and in the 4th round he picked Okefor, both also filling needs. It wasn't until the 2nd 4th round pick and on after until he started drafting players at positions that were not immediate needs, OG (again), WR, RB, RB, TE.

These are all facts. The Cardinals had 4 major needs heading into the draft, OLB, OG, S and ILB and with their first 4 picks, they took players who filled those needs.

More facts. Steve Keim stated that they had set their board to target players who could come in a contribute right away. Prior to the draft, Urban, Somers and Bickley had stated this as well. The Cardinals would be looking to take players who would have an immediate impact. Let me tell you, the only way that happens is if you draft a player at a position that does not have a highly talented player already at it. Thus, picking for need.

Why didn't we draft a QB, because we didn't have a roster spot for one.

Why didn't we draft a defensive lineman, because we didn't have a roster spot for one.

Why didn't we draft a CB, because we would have had to draft one high in order to have a chance to beat out Petterson, Powers or Cason.

We didn't want to use a high pick on players who would be buried on the depth chart so instead we targeted players where we needed to upgrade with those picks.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't get the complaining about Acho at all. He's been very productive, especially as a 4th round pick, who was also listed as a DE. In fact Acho has outperformed many of the LB's selected prior to him and, other than top 10 picks Aldon Smith and Von Miller, is right there with pass rush sack numbers.

Here are Acho's, and the other LB's picked ahead of him, numbers:

Player, selection number, tackles, sacks total,
Jabaal Sheard, 37th pick, 109 tackles, 15.5 sacks
Akeem Ayers, 39th, 179 tackls, 8 sacks
Bruce Carter, 40th, 78 tack, 0 sacks
Jonas Mouton, 61st, 1 tackle, 0 sacks
Dontay Moch, 66th, no stats, more games suspended than tackles/sacks
Nate Irvin, 67th, 17 tackles, 0 sacks
Justin Houston, 70th, 122 tackles, 15.5 sacks
Martez Wilosn, 72nd, 29 tackles, 4 sacks
Mason Foster, 84th, 189 tackles, 4 sacks
Akeen Dent, 91st, 85 tackles, 0 sacks
KJ Wright, 99th, 163 tackles, 2 sacks
Sam Acho, 103rd, 58 tackles, 11 sacks

I don't really count Cody Brown and Schoefield as busts either. A better case can be made for Brown but he did have a major injury and Schoefield has also fought injuries as well.

A reach would have been taking Ansah if he had fallen or Jarvis Jones, who went 17th. Although I would not have been upset with Jones being the pick, the fact is he went 17 and would have been a reach/need pick at 7.

 

[Monty]

Well, Steve Keim had Cooper graded as a top 5 player per his article with Clark Judge. Daniel Jerimiah who is a former scout for the Ravens had Cooper ranked as a top 15 player. Tony Pauline who has been a huge part of the draft community for years had him ranked in his top 15. Most scouts stated that the only difference between Cooper and Warmack was what scheme the teams would run. Some schemes favored Warmack and others Cooper. Warmack was considered universally a top 10 talent. Yes, and the other draftniks like Kiper, McShay, and Mayock had him ranked in the the top 15 as well.

You just refuse to see what is in front you when it CLEARLY points out that you were not just wrong but made laughable assertions that are so easily proven wrong.

Earlier on in this very thread you posted the following

Jonathan Cooper was defintely a need pick, that should be unquestioned.

As you are already by now aware, Cooper was a top 5 player on the Cardinals draft board that was available at #7. In Keim's words he was BPA at #7. So not only is your ridicolous argument above questionable, it is utterly wrong, unfounded, without basis and particularly laughable.

I have said this before, and I will say it again. I don't base my opinions off one source like Mayock or Kiper. I actually watch players throughout the college football year, then review what several different people in the draft and football industry say about them, and then look to confirm that through game clips on youtube. You may say I don't know because I am not in the warroom, but I know what I have seen and I have compared that to what others say as well.

This is fine and is somewhat similar to what I do. Here is the difference. You're opinion, my opinion and those of media draft experts has zero insight into what the Cards board looks like. If you simply stated that you're opinion on this player or that draft pick is this, i'd have no contention with that. However what you did was to assert a claim that YOU KNEW the Cards picked based on NEED and that it was UNQUESTIONABLE. Simply put that is ridiculous, laughable and proven wrong.

Just what this board needs. Another poster whose arguments are based on the premise that nobody on the message board knows anything because we aren't working in professional football.

Poor reading comprehension on your part here. I havent said you didnt know anything I simply said you dont know what the Cards were thinking when they picked the players they picked. You can make assumptions as I and many others have done but you dont know what their process was, whether picked BPA. Fact.

 

[Monty]

The facts are that prior to the draft we needed to upgrade our offensive line, and the position that offered us the biggest upgrade was at OG. We needed to upgrade at S because our depth chart consisted of Rashad Johnson, Yerimiah Bell and Justin Bethel. We also need to upgrade at both the outside linebacker and inside linebacker positions because Schofield hasnt' stayed healthy and Washington got suspended.

Then, during the draft at #7 we identified Jonathan Cooper as the best available player who fit one of our needs, OG. Keim made a pick on a player who filled a need. In round 2, Keim decided to trade back because he had several players similarly ranked, and then picked Kevin Minter who filled a need at ILB. In the 3rd round he picked Mathieu and in the 4th round he picked Okefor, both also filling needs. It wasn't until the 2nd 4th round pick and on after until he started drafting players at positions that were not immediate needs, OG (again), WR, RB, RB, TE.

These are all facts. The Cardinals had 4 major needs heading into the draft, OLB, OG, S and ILB and with their first 4 picks, they took players who filled those needs.

More facts. Steve Keim stated that they had set their board to target players who could come in a contribute right away. Prior to the draft, Urban, Somers and Bickley had stated this as well. The Cardinals would be looking to take players who would have an immediate impact. Let me tell you, the only way that happens is if you draft a player at a position that does not have a highly talented player already at it. Thus, picking for need.

Why didn't we draft a QB, because we didn't have a roster spot for one.

Why didn't we draft a defensive lineman, because we didn't have a roster spot for one.

Why didn't we draft a CB, because we would have had to draft one high in order to have a chance to beat out Petterson, Powers or Cason.

We didn't want to use a high pick on players who would be buried on the depth chart so instead we targeted players where we needed to upgrade with those picks.

All of these issues you address have been answered by Steve Keim in the thread Madcarddisease posted, but you choose to ignore what Keim has said because it goes in the face of all your false arguments.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

FWIW, my buddy, who was in a NFL war room this past week, said Cooper was a better player than Warmack. Still, that's just one guy's opinion and I'm sure you can easily find another scout who had Warmack the better player. The bottom line is, Cooper wasn't a reach and was likely BPA that also filled a need. I don't know why were are going on 8 pages of arguing that point. It's not like we took Levi Brown over AP.

 

[Chopper0080]

You just refuse to see what is in front you when it CLEARLY points out that you were not just wrong but made laughable assertions that are so easily proven wrong.

Earlier on in this very thread you posted the following



As you are already by now aware, Cooper was a top 5 player on the Cardinals draft board that was available at #7. In Keim's words he was BPA at #7. So not only is your ridicolous argument above questionable, it is utterly wrong, unfounded, without basis and particularly laughable.

Does Jonathan Cooper fill an immediate need for this football team? The answer is YES. This means that the pick was made to fill a need. He might have been the best player on the board, he might not have. We, as you like to say, can't know that. What we do know is that OG was a primary need, and drafting Cooper filled that need. The same goes for Minter, Mathieu and Okafor.


This is fine and is somewhat similar to what I do. Here is the difference. You're opinion, my opinion and those of media draft experts has zero insight into what the Cards board looks like. If you simply stated that you're opinion on this player or that draft pick is this, i'd have no contention with that. However what you did was to assert a claim that YOU KNEW the Cards picked based on NEED and that it was UNQUESTIONABLE. Simply put that is ridiculous, laughable and proven wrong.

I find it hilarious that you feel no one who doesnt' work for these teams has any insight into what they will do. How did Jurecki know that we were looking at OL, S, and LB with our first 3 picks and then called us picking Cooper and Mathieu. These people with zero insight have their jobs because they have sources in those front offices. Those GM and Scouts don't give them their boards or scouting reports, but they do give them information that they can use. The difference between me and you and those paid, opinion guys is that they have sources in NFL front offices and we don't.




Poor reading comprehension on your part here. I havent said you didnt know anything I simply said you dont know what the Cards were thinking when they picked the players they picked. You can make assumptions as I and many others have done but you dont know what their process was, whether picked BPA. Fact.

There isn't any lack of comprehension on my part. You are saying that we can't know what the team is thinking or know what their process is. Of course we don't. To state otherwise is stupid. What we can do is formulate hypothese based on history, information available, and our own deductive reasoning. That is what is done on a message board, yet you stand rambling on that we are wrong because we aren't in the room.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't really count Cody Brown and Schoefield as busts either. A better case can be made for Brown but he did have a major injury and Schoefield has also fought injuries as well.

When your second round pick doesn't play a single game for your football team and gets released as a healthy player in his second season, and never plays football professionally in the NFL again, that's pretty much a bust.

You must have pretty intense standards to qualify as a bust. By that measure, JaMarcus Russell wasn't a bust, and neither was Brady Quinn.

It's easy not to strike out when you never come up to bat.

I like Sam Acho, as well, but there's a reason that Ron Wolfley was openly advocating for him to move to SILB next to Daryl Washington, and I'm pretty sure that it's not dynamic pass rushing skills.

 

[Monty]

Does Jonathan Cooper fill an immediate need for this football team? The answer is YES. This means that the pick was made to fill a need.

Really? So Keim SAYS it was BPA and you say it was a NEED pick and better players were on the board and yet you dont see how you utterly wrong and laughable you're claim is? What do you expect us to believe you're unsupported speculation or the fact from Keim's own words?

I find it hilarious that you feel no one who doesnt' work for these teams has any insight into what they will do.

How did Jurecki know that we were looking at OL, S, and LB with our first 3 picks and then called us picking Cooper and Mathieu. These people with zero insight have their jobs because they have sources in those front offices. .

Reading comprehension fail number two. Some beat writers are gonna have some sources but as we all know they have been way more wrong in the past then they have been right. My contention was that you seem to think you KNOW FOR DEFINITE what the cards thinking was behind their picks, something that even Jurecki, Somers and Urban never claim unless they have it from the horses mouth.

There isn't any lack of comprehension on my part. You are saying that we can't know what the team is thinking or know what their process is. Of course we don't. To state otherwise is stupid. What we can do is formulate hypotheses based on history, information available, and our own deductive reasoning.

Well you have just labeled yourself stupid. Your own words not mine. You have made absolute arguments in saying what the reason behind a pick was and not only did you not have any idea whether that statement was true or not at the time you made you have now been PROVEN WRONG by Keim's own words.

Most posters will argue that they think this or believe that or that something is their opinion but you claimed that not only did you KNOW the reasoning behind a pick but that it is UNQUESTIONABLE. Do you not see the glaring difference?

Can you not see how utterly ridiculous and laughable that assertion was in hindsight?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Why are we still talking about this? Did we draft players based on need? Yes, but did we also draft players that we saw as BPA? Also yes. Good team find a balance between the two and that's what the Cards did. Cooper filled possibly our biggest need, but was also top 5 on their entire board. He was probably the top player available on their board once itnl got to their pick.

 

[kerouac9]

Monty, just to get it out there, a phrase like "reading comprehension fail" probably brings down the level of discourse on the board. We can disagree on something, and have everyone be literate. There are a lot of very smart people populating this board. I feel like Chopper and I are treating you with a lot of respect and accord despite you suggesting that we can't read and asserting that we don't understand what actually happened in the Cards draft room.

I assure you that Chopper and I can both read.

I assure you that neither of us were in the Cards draft room.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

When your second round pick doesn't play a single game for your football team and gets released as a healthy player in his second season, and never plays football professionally in the NFL again, that's pretty much a bust.

You must have pretty intense standards to qualify as a bust. By that measure, JaMarcus Russell wasn't a bust, and neither was Brady Quinn.

It's easy not to strike out when you never come up to bat.

I like Sam Acho, as well, but there's a reason that Ron Wolfley was openly advocating for him to move to SILB next to Daryl Washington, and I'm pretty sure that it's not dynamic pass rushing skills.

Brown suffered a wrist injury during the 2009 preseason and was placed on season-ending injured reserve on August 24.

When you find Russell or Quinn on season ending injured reserve, let me know. I'll wait while you research it.

Again, like others have stated, just because YOU say he was healthy, doesn't mean he was. Who knows if he was able to recover full strength or motion in his wrists/hand. I think it was Kenny King who also was never able to recover from wrist injuries.

Plus, Brown was the 63rd overall pick not the top pick in the draft or a 1st round QB. But nice try in the comparison.

Ron Wolfley also said Brandon Keith was the Cards best OL and a future star. I'm sure there was a reason for that too.

 

[Monty]

Monty, just to get it out there, a phrase like "reading comprehension fail" probably brings down the level of discourse on the board. We can disagree on something, and have everyone be literate. There are a lot of very smart people populating this board. I feel like Chopper and I are treating you with a lot of respect and accord despite you suggesting that we can't read and asserting that we don't understand what actually happened in the Cards draft room.

I assure you that Chopper and I can both read.

I assure you that neither of us were in the Cards draft room.

Uhm, what?? Where have I suggested that you cant read? Where have I said you dont understand what happened in the Cards draft?

Do you just make up what you post as you go along?

At no point did I call anyone's literacy into question or that they dont understand what happened anywhere so i've no idea what you're on about.

 

[Monty]

To Chopper:

I meant no disrespect when I used the term reading comprehension and I apologize if you felt offended. I merely just meant to point out that you misunderstood what I had written hence the use of the term.

 

[kerouac9]

Brown suffered a wrist injury during the 2009 preseason and was placed on season-ending injured reserve on August 24.

When you find Russell or Quinn on season ending injured reserve, let me know. I'll wait while you research it.

Again, like others have stated, just because YOU say he was healthy, doesn't mean he was. Who knows if he was able to recover full strength or motion in his wrists/hand. I think it was Kenny King who also was never able to recover from wrist injuries.

Plus, Brown was the 63rd overall pick not the top pick in the draft or a 1st round QB. But nice try in the comparison.

Ron Wolfley also said Brandon Keith was the Cards best OL and a future star. I'm sure there was a reason for that too.

So not contributing at all makes you less of a bust than contributing something, but playing poorly. Gotcha.

 

[52brandon]

I've read that board, and it's essentially a transcription of Keim's press conferences after each day.

I'll definitely give Keim credit for one thing: he has excellent message discipline. He has his talking points, and he tends not to deviate from them or expand on them one bit.

BTW, Keim did say that the Okafor pick in particular filled a need.

yes he did. And in the same sentence said he was the best player on the board. He also goes on to state that it was important to him to stay true to the board rather than draft based on need

Not only did he fit a positional need and was a good schematic fit, he was the best player on the board. And that's the one thing we talked about before the draft: We wanted to stay true to our board and make sure we didn't leave good players up there and try to force a pick based on need.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

So not contributing at all makes you less of a bust than contributing something, but playing poorly. Gotcha.

I think I got it.

Getting injured and not contributing at all while being the 63rd pick is the same as being the #1 overall pick, signing the richest rookie contract in history, playing at a horrendous level, and more interested in purple drank than practicing football is equivalent.

It's hard to comprehend such nonsense.

So, in your world, Cody Brown is as big a bust as JaMarcus Russell. Gotcha.

Excuse me, I got it wrong. Brown is a bigger bust because he never played. Okay, now it makes sense .

 

[52brandon]

I think I got it.

Getting injured and not contributing at all while being the 63rd pick is the same as being the #1 overall pick, signing the richest rookie contract in history, playing at a horrendous level, and more interested in purple drank than practicing football is equivalent.

It's hard to comprehend such nonsense.

So, in your world, Cody Brown is as big a bust as JaMarcus Russell. Gotcha.

Excuse me, I got it wrong. Brown is a bigger bust because he never played. Okay, now it makes sense .

neither did Jamarcus. He showed up... but play? Nah, I can't call it that

 

[Catfish]

5. Steve Keim doesn't know what to look for in rush linebackers. I like Alex Okafor, and I thought the Cards could draft him as early as the second round. But he was the 9th outside linebacker taken off the board, and he didn't become a priority until very late in the draft. Keim has been burned in the past on rush linebacker choices, both with Cody Brown and O'Brien Schofield. The least dynamic position in an otherwise-dynamic Arizona Cardinals defense has been rush linebacker. The Cards need to poach someone from a 3-4 franchise who can identify players who can get to the quarterback with speed and skill. I don't really care who it is, but I wonder if this organization is afraid to step to the plate. Lorenzo Alexander isn't going to get 6+ sacks per year.

That's a pretty harsh statement to make concerning a new GM participating in his 1st NFL Draft as GM. It might be more fair to say that, once Keim signed Carson Palmer as our QB, it became mandatory to get help for our O-line immediately in this draft. Keim may have well chosen a pass rusher with the *7 pick otherwise.

I know that you like to think of Keim as part of the problem with Cardinal's drafts, but if you go back and listen to people who were 'in the know', they all indicate that Keim, (as a head scout, AND as VP in charge of football personnel), was trumped repeatedly by CKW. Those drafts were the responsibility of CKW and Graves, almost exclusively. I don't believe that saying Keim 'doesn't know what to look for in a rush linebacker', is a fair statement at all.

Sad but true, he was more or less forced to fix the O-line priority one. Then when D-Wash got suspended for the first quarter of the season, it is completely within the realm of probability that he was more or less forced to take Minter, (and ILB to cover that loss, instead of an OLB to fill our pass rusher need). Then came the choice between Mathieu and Okafor. Mathieu won out, (and no one hollered louder than you did when Keim purged our Safety position in order to create cap space). He was just trying to fill our larger need at that juncture, and probably did it very well. He took Okafor in the 4th, where many had him going in the second round, so that can't be as bad a pick as you would imply with your statement. That was also the real first time he was free to address that position in THIS draft.

Let's not forget, that we ranked 4th in sacks in the NFC last year, (I believe), and that was without a true pass rusher according to most on this board. Letting this pick go into the 4th round was quite prudent considering ALL the necessities that Keim addressed before he made this selection. It might have been a more appropriate choice to have said that Keim was prevented from taking a pass rusher early, than to say he doesn't know how to identify one.

 

[Chopper0080]

yes he did. And in the same sentence said he was the best player on the board. He also goes on to state that it was important to him to stay true to the board rather than draft based on need

You do realize that you can make a need pick while also taking the best player available right? Monty has the same issue where he can't see that a need pick can also be a top ranked player. This is why picking for need (what we did drafting Cooper) is different than reaching for need (what we did drafting Levi Brown).

 

[Chopper0080]

Really? So Keim SAYS it was BPA and you say it was a NEED pick and better players were on the board and yet you dont see how you utterly wrong and laughable you're claim is? What do you expect us to believe you're unsupported speculation or the fact from Keim's own words?

You are arguing that a pick based on need cannot also be your highest ranked player. That is ridiculous. In the article you keep referring to Keim specifically states this in regards to Cooper.

"Keim: "We rank the players 1-120, based on how we feel they fit the Arizona Cardinals. We really do stick with a best-player-available model. But to a certain extent, we factor in the type of impact that player will have on our roster[/B]. Jonathan Cooper was in our top five, regardless of position because we truly feel he has a unique skill set -- tremendous feet, bend, athleticism, can pull and play in space -- to play that position. On top of that, he has rare character and intangibles.

"Going into the draft, tackle is always a need for everybody because there are so few of them, but you could have argued that offensive guard was a bigger need for us than offensive tackle when you consider the fact that we get Levi [Brown] back and that Bobby Massie and Nate Potter both made great strides for us last year late in the year"

From Keim's mouth, Cooper was picked to fill our team's need at OG. What you are apparently trying to argue is that I am claiming that we reached for a need player which is entirely different. Reaching for a need is essentially what we did with Levi Brown. It is drafting a player significantly higher than their overall ranking to fill a specific need. Drafting for need is focusing your draft towards drafting players who can play right away because they are not blocked by above average players.

 

[Monty]

You do realize that you can make a need pick while also taking the best player available right? Monty has the same issue where he can't see that a need pick can also be a top ranked player. This is why picking for need (what we did drafting Cooper) is different than reaching for need (what we did drafting Levi Brown).

Where have I said that? Taking a leaf out of K9's book and making stuff up again are?

Stop clutching at straws dude. There is a big difference between factoring need into BPA and saying a pick was made BECUASE of need. The latter suggests that need was the overriding factor in the decision. the former is what EVERY NFL TEAM DOES, so no point trying to say that was what you were initially arguing.

What Keim has been quoted as saying goes in the face of what you said earlier, namely that we picked BECAUSE of need. Simply not true and utterly laughable. Hopelessly grasping at straws isnt going to change that.

 

[Chopper0080]

What I find amusing in this whole thread is how people believe the Cardinals draft board is somehow ranked without any prejudice towards our own roster and the specific holes in it. That, somehow, our draft board is developed in a total vacuum.

A little news for all of those that believe this, it isn't. Teams break up their draft boards by round. Players with a 1st round grade are grouped together, 2nd round grade are grouped together and so on and so forth. Teams then break down each round in a 1 thru ? ranking depending on how many players they gave that grade to. How do they compare these players who play different positions, and have different impacts towards the games? They differentiate these players by looking at positional value and where they would fit in their roster. The more difficult it will be for that player to get into the starting lineup, the lower they are ranked in that grouping. The more important the position, the higher they are ranked in that grouping.

A prime example of all of this is Geno Smith. Geno Smith was drafted where he was because teams had lowered him on their boards because his overall ranking did not trump how far he had been lowered because of his inability to impact the starting roster for those teams drafting later in the 1st round.

 

[Monty]

You are arguing that a pick based on need cannot also be your highest ranked player. That is ridiculous. In the article you keep referring to Keim specifically states this in regards to Cooper.

"Keim: "We rank the players 1-120, based on how we feel they fit the Arizona Cardinals. We really do stick with a best-player-available model. But to a certain extent, we factor in the type of impact that player will have on our roster[/B]. Jonathan Cooper was in our top five, regardless of position because we truly feel he has a unique skill set -- tremendous feet, bend, athleticism, can pull and play in space -- to play that position. On top of that, he has rare character and intangibles.

"Going into the draft, tackle is always a need for everybody because there are so few of them, but you could have argued that offensive guard was a bigger need for us than offensive tackle when you consider the fact that we get Levi [Brown] back and that Bobby Massie and Nate Potter both made great strides for us last year late in the year"

From Keim's mouth, Cooper was picked to fill our team's need at OG. What you are apparently trying to argue is that I am claiming that we reached for a need player which is entirely different. Reaching for a need is essentially what we did with Levi Brown. It is drafting a player significantly higher than their overall ranking to fill a specific need. Drafting for need is focusing your draft towards drafting players who can play right away because they are not blocked by above average players.

Tut tut tut. Where do you go with someone that is so caught up in their own delusion that they cannot see they are just plainly grasping at straws?

Let me try this one more time as you still dont seem to get. Your initial post argued that in this draft we pick BASED on need without mentioning or suggesting BPA being factored into at all. Beyond that you argued that the picking of players BASED on neeed was UNQUESTIONABLE. I didnt want to have to go back to the reading comprehension but you are misunderstanding what Keim is saying. His whole point is that BPA was the UNDERLYING factor in the pick (since he was in their top highest rated players REGARDLESS of position) but that it HELPED that Cooper was an OG. The determining factor was BPA and Keim couldnt have put any simpler if he tried.

Now you are flip flopping and gasping at straws to try and make it look like you meant something else. at no point in your initial argument did you come close to suggesting that BPA played a factor and ONLY suggested NEED played a factor. Keim's words (even those that you have quoted above) go in the face of what you initially claimed. Its sad that just about everybody else can see it except you.