What this team needs....

[elindholm]

Diaw/Banks/Marks/07 First for Lewis/Ridinour

Not a chance. The total value of the Phoenix package in that proposal is less than zero. No one wants to take on Diaw's or Banks's contracts right now, and a pick at the end of the first round isn't anywhere near enough enticement.

 

[Hugh D'Man]

Hmmm.... that sounds familiar. I guess those off season signings really aren't paying off.

 

[Ciani]

Are you saying that Ray Allen and Shawn Marion are equal as defenders? Seriously?

Of course not (sorry if my English is hard to understand ). In my view Allen's better offense equals Marion's better defense.

Anyway I dont think that the Suns will make a move, especially not a big one. Diener would be a good acqusition though

 

[azirish]

Diaw/Banks/Marks/07 First for Lewis/Ridinour

Not a chance. The total value of the Phoenix package in that proposal is less than zero. No one wants to take on Diaw's or Banks's contracts right now, and a pick at the end of the first round isn't anywhere near enough enticement.

I don't think this works from a cap standpoint either.

IMHO Diaw is a lot more valuable to the Suns than he would be other teams. Most teams aren't looking for a point center who is a below average rebounder and can't defend the low block without help.

 

[asudevil83]

I don't think this works from a cap standpoint either.

IMHO Diaw is a lot more valuable to the Suns than he would be other teams. Most teams aren't looking for a point center who is a below average rebounder and can't defend the low block without help.

it does. both Diaw and Ridinour are Poison Pill....so things are a little funny, but it works out. the do suns end up taking back WAY more salary than they give up though, so it would never happen. but some of these other crap trades will never happen either, so its completely irrelevent.

 

[Covert Rain]

You really think Marion is that great of a defender?

Show me one of these "A Types" that we could realistically get that is a better defender, that can grab 18 rebounds per game and oh by the way has the ability to "take over a game" all in the same package.

We could debate all day how good someone thinks his defense is. However, unless one of these guys is better and rebounding and defending...the team gets worse not better in those 2 areas.

How many times do we have to get out-boarded by the Dengs, the Biedrinses, the Howards (Josh), the Collisons, the Obertos of this world before you'll admit that trying to keep the status quo is not playing to our strengths?

WHAT?!? Last time I checked the strengths of this team were the offense. So your saying we should play to our strengths by adding another scorer while playing less defense and getting fewer rebounds?? You make no sense. If you don't want to be "status quo" add some defense. I love our "status quo" on offense and so does the rest of the NBA.

You guys talk about giving up defense, but the fact of the matter is we are NOT giving up defense because we truly don't have it to give up.

At least if your going to make a statement like that look up the stats. We are far from being the worst defensive team in the NBA. We are much improved over the past. So AGAIN... how does getting us another scorer by putting us at the bottom of the NBA in defense help us get a title?

I'd rather have more and better and more consistent options on offense

Right because we already aren't the best scoring team in the NBA right now. Let's get more of what we already do best versus getting better at things we could improve on.

because the defensive side of things is, frankly, unattainable to this team, period. Arguing for defense is fighting an uphill battle.

There is at least 1/2 of the NBA that would disagree with your take on the Suns ability to play defense. Especially considering we hold opp. to a better FG% then about 1/2 the league. Are we top 10? No but hardly "unattainable" as you say.

Our strengths are strictly our offense, our running, our conditioning and hustle plays. Defense is nowhere in the mix. I'd add players that play to our strengths quicker than I would add players that bring us one step closer to a goal that is 100 steps away....

What??!?!? We are ZERO steps away on offense. We already are the best team in the NBA on offense. That is the poorest arguement I have ever heard. We are not considered a great defense team so lets just add another scorer and drop down to the bottom of the NBA in rebounding and defense. Let's make our strength even stronger and make our weakness even weaker.

Right...that will get us closer to a title I am sure.

 

[Heavy D]

I'm glad that many of you are not the Suns' GM.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

What defensive-minded player is available that would take us over the top? None. Marion is a ghost without Nash and Raja's D is overrated. While we have performed offensively against the mediocre to horrible teams in the league, we have performed poorly against the top teams in the league, offensively speaking. So, our strength is stymied against teams that actually have good defense. I'll take a Ray Allen on this team quicker than I'd take a Ben Wallace when you consider the team as a whole.

Right now, when we are getting burned by Terry or Ginobili or Williams (Deron) or any role player who comes in and blows by Raja for 30 points, we have no answer (speaking about the top teams). Yes, we can overcome poorer teams and their role player scoring outbursts, but the Suns have not proven they can overcome the D from top teams (see record against Spurs the last few years, see the Mavs games this year, and look historically at the major come-from-behinds the Kings have laid on us).

Like I said, I'll take a player who can CONSISTENTLY (ie, not Raja and Diaw) keep things open for Amare and Nash and Barbosa on O. If our shooters are off, which they have a tendency to do against the top teams, they collapse on Amare and double to Nash effectively grinding us to a halt. We all know how D'antoni would (not) use a defensive presence who is a black hole on offense. So, all things considered, a better offensive player would work better for this team....

 

[Covert Rain]

What defensive-minded player is available that would take us over the top? None. Marion is a ghost without Nash and Raja's D is overrated. While we have performed offensively against the mediocre to horrible teams in the league, we have performed poorly against the top teams in the league, offensively speaking. So, our strength is stymied against teams that actually have good defense. I'll take a Ray Allen on this team quicker than I'd take a Ben Wallace when you consider the team as a whole.

What offensive player is available that could also replace 18 rebounds per game 2 steals per game which is the 2nd best in the NBA and put us over the top? NONE. You seem to be under this illusion that adding another scorer can get us a title. If we follow your blueprint we get better offensively (which we don't need) and get worse defensively.

So let's assume for one minute that we could get a high impact player that could improve us on offense even more without making us worse in the 2 categories that most would agree are essential to a title (rebounding and defense). So great. Now we can score more points on the Mavs and San Antonio but we can't rebound or defend against either one of those teams. In fact we would do it worse then the last time we played them. Meaning that while we improve our team scoring, we also improved the scoring of ever single team we play against in the NBA.

The Suns are in the middle of the NBA in defense. Give me a list of teams that have won an NBA title while being bottom feeders in the NBA on defense. Again, I have no objection whatsoever about adding another scorer to this team as long as it means this team doesn't get worse in the categories that we need to win a title.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Well, I'll say that the only trade out there that would rectify the issues we are both making is a trade of Marion/Bell/Jones/CLE#1 for Gasol/Miller, which I would do without blinking. We'd actually get better in terms of scoring, assisting and rebounding and we'd actually have another post defender....

 

[azirish]

Well, I'll say that the only trade out there that would rectify the issues we are both making is a trade of Marion/Bell/Jones/CLE#1 for Gasol/Miller, which I would do without blinking. We'd actually get better in terms of scoring, assisting and rebounding and we'd actually have another post defender....

Gasol is not a particularly good low post defender. He's a good shooter and a decent rebounder, but overall I'm not sure he's more valuable than Marion. Teamed with Amare, he wouldn't have the touches.

Pau Gasol
Memphis Grizzlies
Position: C
Height: 7-0 Weight: 260
From : Spain
Player file | Team stats
2006-07 StatisticsPPG20.1RPG9.3 APG3.2SPG.38BPG2.28FG%.531FT%.7303P%.250MPG34.7

Shawn Marion
Phoenix Suns
Position: F
Height: 6-7 Weight: 228
College : UNLV
Player file | Team stats
2006-07 StatisticsPPG18.1RPG10.3 APG1.7SPG2.19BPG1.40FG%.514FT%.8103P%.326MPG38.4