What to do with Elfrid

[JCSunsfan]

Just curious what you all are thinking.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Just curious what you all are thinking.

I'm thinking I'm confused. I had convinced myself that we wanted him and he wanted us. The silence and the non-inclusion of Elfrid paints a different picture. I'm more than okay with letting him walk, I was just hoping that we had easy access to a solution for our point guard problem. Now, I don't know where we'll go for that answer.

 

[Folster]

I've said this before and there is no way around it. Payton's rights will be renounced. McDonough keeps touting our 15-20 million in cap space. That amount is based off of renouncing Payton.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I've said this before and there is no way around it. Payton's rights will be renounced. McDonough keeps touting our 15-20 million in cap space. That amount is based off of renouncing Payton.

But he can be renounced AFTER offering the QO. So number 3 and 4 could both work in succession depending on the FA market. That would keep the most options open. If they have decided they just don't want him, they just renounce immediately.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

From Bordow's free agency article that just came out:

"The Suns will be busy before July 1. Expect them to renounce their rights to center Alex Len and point guard Elfrid Payton, making them both free agents. Ayton’s addition has made Len expendable, and while Phoenix still needs point-guard help, Payton’s inconsistent play last season and, more importantly, his $10 million cap hold figure, likely means he’s played his last game in a Suns uniform."

 

[mjb21aztd]

I say match if cheap he will put up ok num atleast as a pg.

Not sure which free agents pgs are available

 

[Mainstreet]

The eerie quiet about Payton told me he was likely gone. And now we have confirmation from Bordow.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I say match if cheap he will put up ok num atleast as a pg.

Not sure which free agents pgs are available

Bordow's list: (tl;dr The only decent options are restricted free agents.)

Patrick Beverley: Technically he’s not a free agent; he has a non-guaranteed contract worth $5 million in 2018-19. But the Clippers traded for Kentucky point guard Shai Gilgeous-Alexander the night of the draft and then selected Boston College’s Jerome Robinson, who can play both backcourt positions.

That may make Beverley expendable, particularly after he was limited to 11 games last season because of knee surgery. Beverley fits all of the Suns’ criteria; he’s a veteran who will help the Suns’ young players, he can shoot (38.2 percent from 3-point range in 2016-17) and he’s considered perhaps the best on-the-ball defender among NBA point guards.

Marcus Smart: A restricted free agent, Smart is a terrific defender but he shot just 36.7 percent from the field last season for Boston and 30.1 percent from 3-point range. Plus, Smart recently said he believes he’s worth more than $14 million per season, a price the Suns might be unlikely to pay.

Zach LaVine: Chicago’s LaVine isn’t a great defender and was limited to 24 games last season after returning from ACL surgery. But he’s only 23 years old. A restricted free agent, so the Bulls can match any offer.

Fred VanVleet: VanVleet was a Sixth Man of the Year finalist for Toronto last season after averaging 8.6 points per game and shooting 41.4 percent from 3-point range. He’s a restricted free agent so Toronto can match any offer.

Dante Exum: Another restricted free agent, Exum could be the odd man out in a crowded Utah backcourt. He’s been saddled with injuries much of his career but he’s just 22 years old and was the No. 5 overall draft pick in 2014.

Last thing: If Charlotte decides to trade Kemba Walker, the Suns will make a phone call.

 

[Mainstreet]

Beverley might be the most interesting option at PG for the right price.

The article also talks about power forward candidates. I still like Derrick Favors of the mentioned candidates even if he is not a 3 point shooter.

Derrick Favors: He’s been linked to the Suns but if Phoenix wants a four who can stretch the floor that would seem to disqualify Favors, who shot just 22.3 percent from 3-point range last season for Utah.

Here is the link to Bordow's article.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...int-guard-stretch-four-free-agency/728303002/

 

[Mainstreet]

Thinking about Beverley, the Clippers will likely pick up the team option on him looking for a trade.

 

[Errntknght]

Bordow's list: (tl;dr The only decent options are restricted free agents.)

Patrick Beverley: Technically he’s not a free agent; he has a non-guaranteed contract worth $5 million in 2018-19. But the Clippers traded for Kentucky point guard Shai Gilgeous-Alexander the night of the draft and then selected Boston College’s Jerome Robinson, who can play both backcourt positions.

That may make Beverley expendable, particularly after he was limited to 11 games last season because of knee surgery. Beverley fits all of the Suns’ criteria; he’s a veteran who will help the Suns’ young players, he can shoot (38.2 percent from 3-point range in 2016-17) and he’s considered perhaps the best on-the-ball defender among NBA point guards.

Marcus Smart: A restricted free agent, Smart is a terrific defender but he shot just 36.7 percent from the field last season for Boston and 30.1 percent from 3-point range. Plus, Smart recently said he believes he’s worth more than $14 million per season, a price the Suns might be unlikely to pay.

Zach LaVine: Chicago’s LaVine isn’t a great defender and was limited to 24 games last season after returning from ACL surgery. But he’s only 23 years old. A restricted free agent, so the Bulls can match any offer.

Fred VanVleet: VanVleet was a Sixth Man of the Year finalist for Toronto last season after averaging 8.6 points per game and shooting 41.4 percent from 3-point range. He’s a restricted free agent so Toronto can match any offer.

Dante Exum: Another restricted free agent, Exum could be the odd man out in a crowded Utah backcourt. He’s been saddled with injuries much of his career but he’s just 22 years old and was the No. 5 overall draft pick

VanVleet is the best choice if we are looking for a long term answer. Ast/TO is 3.3, shoots 3's at 41%, top 10 among all PGs in DefensiveRPM. He's a fan favorite and considered to be clutch but Tor has Delon Wright, who's minutes & stats are close and he's 6'5. My guess is they won't match unless they can move Lowry, who's getting a bit long in the tooth. Toronto is being careful with their money. Another moving part in this scenario is DeRozen - Vanvleet and Wright were effectively their backup SGs this past year.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think he's going down the Len path.

We will offer him the QO and it's the only thing we'll be willing to keep him on. If someone offers him more, he's probably theirs, if we find something else to do with the money, I expect we retract the QO and he's gone.

I don't see a sign and trade as even a remote possibility.

 

[Mainstreet]

VanVleet is the best choice if we are looking for a long term answer. Ast/TO is 3.3, shoots 3's at 41%, top 10 among all PGs in DefensiveRPM. He's a fan favorite and considered to be clutch but Tor has Delon Wright, who's minutes & stats are close and he's 6'5. My guess is they won't match unless they can move Lowry, who's getting a bit long in the tooth. Toronto is being careful with their money. Another moving part in this scenario is DeRozen - Vanvleet and Wright were effectively their backup SGs this past year.

I'm understanding Vanvleet is a free agent so it wouldn't require a trade.

Wright has another year on his contract before he becomes a RFA.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think he's going down the Len path.

We will offer him the QO and it's the only thing we'll be willing to keep him on. If someone offers him more, he's probably theirs, if we find something else to do with the money, I expect we retract the QO and he's gone.

I don't see a sign and trade as even a remote possibility.

I've come to think you're right here. I thought we had maybe a backroom agreement but it looks like we gave up on him fairly early. Not sure whether it was his play or his salary demand but either way, I think he's going to struggle to find his place.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I am just not a VanVleet fan.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I've come to think you're right here. I thought we had maybe a backroom agreement but it looks like we gave up on him fairly early. Not sure whether it was his play or his salary demand but either way, I think he's going to struggle to find his place.

I went through all 30 teams real quick, and I would argue that the Magic and the Suns are probably the two teams in the NBA with the biggest need for a starting point guard. The fact that both of those teams have tried Payton and found little interest is a very bad sign for his prospects.

 

[Raze]

Everyone keeps ignoring BK. Granted, the 26 year old has earned the right to be criticized dearly. But we shouldn't dismiss him outright. In this day and age a "great PG" can average close to 6 assists (Barf). BK was close at one point in when he ended 15 with 5.4 a game. He doesn't need to be great, that's Book and Ayton's job. JJ and Bridges might make a strong push for greatness as well. We need BK to just be a solid player at a position where there are NO, I repeat, NO good options available. And he's at least been good for 3 out of his 8 seasons. I'm saying he's due.

Word keeps coming out from the organization that he is working tirelessly on his game and wants to make an impact here. Maybe with all this time off and the plethora of talent we have accumulated it's titillated his desire to be successful.

He really is our best option at this point. (And as a supporter of trading for Peyton, I'm firmly in the NO camp for bringing him back).

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Everyone keeps ignoring BK. Granted, the 26 year old has earned the right to be criticized dearly. But we shouldn't dismiss him outright. In this day and age a "great PG" can average close to 6 assists (Barf). BK was close at one point in when he ended 15 with 5.4 a game.

Definitely not ignoring him. It's just if you're looking for a "solid player", it's problematic to go after a guy who averages 13+ shots per game over his career with horrible efficiency and who struggles on defense.

He's low efficiency on assists too. Yes, he averaged 5.4 assists per game in his best season ever, BUT he also averaged 3.2 turnovers. That's an assist-to-turnover ratio of 1.69.

For perspective, that would have ranked him 51 out of 52 qualified point guards last year.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/...noverRatio/seasontype/2/position/point-guards

That's well behind Ulis, Payton, and pretty much any point guard who got enough playing time to qualify. In fact, the only point guard who had a worse ratio is Jamal Murray, who's not really even a point guard.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Also, sorry to be so negative on Brandon Knight. I like that he seems to have a new perspective and he's not without talent. I just sometimes feel like we're collectively getting back together with an ex. That ex treated us poorly and we weren't happy in the relationship, but we're lonely and don't have other good options at the moment. Give it a go? Maybe. But let's not idealize the past or forget why we broke up!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Also, sorry to be so negative on Brandon Knight. I like that he seems to have a new perspective and he's not without talent. I just sometimes feel like we're collectively getting back together with an ex. That ex treated us poorly and we weren't happy in the relationship, but we're lonely and don't have other good options at the moment. Give it a go? Maybe. But let's not idealize the past or forget why we broke up!

Yeah, there is nothing in Brandon Knight's past that makes me want him. But we're still stuck with him so if he gives us a reason to like him in the here and now, great. I'm not holding my breath though.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Yeah, there is nothing in Brandon Knight's past that makes me want him. But we're still stuck with him so if he gives us a reason to like him in the here and now, great. I'm not holding my breath though.

Mike James tricked me into liking him for two weeks last year, so anything is possible!

 

[Phrazbit]

I just don't see Knight ever becoming a guy who can be effective without the ball in his hands... or ever being consistently effective with the ball in his hands on account of his terrible shot selection. He's a skilled player but his bad habits are the kind never seem to change.

I wouldn't be surprised if one day he wins a 6th man award as the instant offense off the bench guy on a good team, but I don't like that kind of guy being a primary ball handler on a young team that needs to learn how to play as a team, take care of the ball and learn how to score efficiently.

Andre Miller... Scott Skiles... we need somehow to find a guy cut from that mold. Not flashy, not particularly great at anything, just an unselfish, steady hand. The Sixers have a great one in TJ McConnell.

I wonder if the Pacers might shop Collison on the cheap now that they've drafted Holliday. Collison has one year and 10 mil left on his deal, would be a nice steady hand that we wouldn't have to marry.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I wonder if the Pacers might shop Collison on the cheap now that they've drafted Holliday. Collison has one year and 10 mil left on his deal, would be a nice steady hand that we wouldn't have to marry.

I doubt it, unfortunately. They did so well in the playoffs, my guess is they'll want to bring their steady hand back next year.

But I agree that a player like Collison would cure a lot of the Suns' ills.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Mike James tricked me into liking him for two weeks last year, so anything is possible!

I blame the Mike James fiasco on poor instruction from Earl. Had he not been convinced he was "the show", he might have been an effective 6th man.

 

[Phrazbit]

It'll be interesting to see the market Rondo gets. Defensively, statistically, he was really good for the Pelicans... but he's a bit crazy and I dunno if he has the patience to play with a bunch of kids.

The whole '5 teams in 5 years' thing tells me his market might be a lot smaller than people are expecting.