What to do with Elfrid

[Mainstreet]

I think it is a mistake to view Knight as anything but a SG and further expectations set him up for disappointment. If he provides any thing extra it's gravy.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I blame the Mike James fiasco on poor instruction from Earl. Had he not been convinced he was "the show", he might have been an effective 6th man.

His body language during Summer League last year was atrocious. I think he will always consider himself "the show" regardless of instruction. He seems much happier overseas where he's talented enough to justify his style of play.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

It'll be interesting to see the market Rondo gets. Defensively, statistically, he was really good for the Pelicans... but he's a bit crazy and I dunno if he has the patience to play with a bunch of kids.

The whole '5 teams in 5 years' thing tells me his market might be a lot smaller than people are expecting.

Rondo is really talented and could add a lot, but he's incredibly headstrong. Probably a bad match with a young team and a first-time head coach.

 

[GatorAZ]

I just don't see Knight ever becoming a guy who can be effective without the ball in his hands... or ever being consistently effective with the ball in his hands on account of his terrible shot selection. He's a skilled player but his bad habits are the kind never seem to change.

I wouldn't be surprised if one day he wins a 6th man award as the instant offense off the bench guy on a good team, but I don't like that kind of guy being a primary ball handler on a young team that needs to learn how to play as a team, take care of the ball and learn how to score efficiently.

Andre Miller... Scott Skiles... we need somehow to find a guy cut from that mold. Not flashy, not particularly great at anything, just an unselfish, steady hand. The Sixers have a great one in TJ McConnell.

I wonder if the Pacers might shop Collison on the cheap now that they've drafted Holliday. Collison has one year and 10 mil left on his deal, would be a nice steady hand that we wouldn't have to marry.

I’ve always liked Collison. He’d be a good stopgap.

I like Tyreke as well but he’ll get overpaid.

 

[devilalum]

I think it is a mistake to view Knight as anything but a SG and further expectations set him up for disappointment. If he provides any thing extra it's gravy.

Yeah, I think it would be a huge mistake to assume that BK will be able to fill any meaningful role for the Suns next season. I bet the Suns feel the same way.

 

[Hoop Head]

Let Elfrid walk. Let Knight start, Canaan play backup until Okobo is ready for real playing time. I don't expect a lot from Knight and would be happy if he can help more than he hurts the team. I don't think that's asking too much. If he can be a neutral player, fine, I'd rather let him play since he's here already and have those backups and let Elfrid find another team. He won't be our starter and if he his, how long will he be? I can't see him sticking around longer that 1 season in that role so it's time to look elsewhere for a better PG option if we don't think Okobo can be the PG of the future.

I know Canaan wasn't a world beater by any means but he played with some awful teammates last year and produced. He was playing in December and January before Jackson started contributing and Chriss was awful as well. So he didn't have good teammates but still did well for us while healthy. He helped the team go on a winning streak when Booker was out and the Suns actually went 8-11 while he was here. That isn't great but since they won 21 games on the season, that says something about him playing in almost 40% of the wins while playing in under 25% of the total games. He had a positive plus/minus in 10 of the 19 games he played in also, so he did help them win those games he was here for. He averaged 4 assists to 1.5 turnovers a game last year in 22 minutes and is a career 35% 3pt shooter. His FG% isn't good but he can shoot 3's, Payton can't. So I'd rather keep him on the cheap, let Knight play, and keep Okobo as our 3rd string guy who goes back and forth from the G-League until he's ready to do more.

 

[devilalum]

Let Elfrid walk. Let Knight start, Canaan play backup until Okobo is ready for real playing time. I don't expect a lot from Knight and would be happy if he can help more than he hurts the team. I don't think that's asking too much. If he can be a neutral player, fine, I'd rather let him play since he's here already and have those backups and let Elfrid find another team. He won't be our starter and if he his, how long will he be? I can't see him sticking around longer that 1 season in that role so it's time to look elsewhere for a better PG option if we don't think Okobo can be the PG of the future.

I know Canaan wasn't a world beater by any means but he played with some awful teammates last year and produced. He was playing in December and January before Jackson started contributing and Chriss was awful as well. So he didn't have good teammates but still did well for us while healthy. He helped the team go on a winning streak when Booker was out and the Suns actually went 8-11 while he was here. That isn't great but since they won 21 games on the season, that says something about him playing in almost 40% of the wins while playing in under 25% of the total games. He had a positive plus/minus in 10 of the 19 games he played in also, so he did help them win those games he was here for. He averaged 4 assists to 1.5 turnovers a game last year in 22 minutes and is a career 35% 3pt shooter. His FG% isn't good but he can shoot 3's, Payton can't. So I'd rather keep him on the cheap, let Knight play, and keep Okobo as our 3rd string guy who goes back and forth from the G-League until he's ready to do more.

Unless BK had that Steve Austin surgery that’s a formula for disaster.


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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It'll be interesting to see the market Rondo gets. Defensively, statistically, he was really good for the Pelicans... but he's a bit crazy and I dunno if he has the patience to play with a bunch of kids.

The whole '5 teams in 5 years' thing tells me his market might be a lot smaller than people are expecting.

I loved rondo coming out. I love him for a talented veteran team. I want him nowhere near a bunch of young guys like our suns.

 

[Errntknght]

The one point I really want back from last year is Shaq Harrison. I'd guess he is a career backup, but he's 6'4 and an excellent defender. Normally you don't regard steals as an important stat, but when the guys a good defender you do. He led the team in steals per 36
and blocked .7 shots per 36, more than double the rate for PGs. Also a good rebounder for his position - better than TJ and close to JJ per 36. Ast/TO was 2.5, above avg for PGs. Gets to the rim okay, shooting .476 from the field. He sucks from 3, which is the main reason he wouldn't start. He's just the guy you want to bring in when the opposing PG is lighting us up. With Reed(assuming her returns to form) and JJ or MB we'd have very strong defensive backcourt on the second unit - they could get the team back into games.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

The one point I really want back from last year is Shaq Harrison. I'd guess he is a career backup, but he's 6'4 and an excellent defender. Normally you don't regard steals as an important stat, but when the guys a good defender you do. He led the team in steals per 36
and blocked .7 shots per 36, more than double the rate for PGs. Also a good rebounder for his position - better than TJ and close to JJ per 36. Ast/TO was 2.5, above avg for PGs. Gets to the rim okay, shooting .476 from the field. He sucks from 3, which is the main reason he wouldn't start. He's just the guy you want to bring in when the opposing PG is lighting us up. With Reed(assuming her returns to form) and JJ or MB we'd have very strong defensive backcourt on the second unit - they could get the team back into games.

I struggle on Harrison. He's probably my favorite of the group too...it's just hard to find him a spot on the roster. Assuming Knight is on the roster, the Suns now have Knight, Harrison, and Okobo. If Knight is the starter, then you've got a weak starter being backed up by two players with almost no combined experience in Shaq and Elie. If the Suns bring in another starter, I'd be more okay with two inexperienced backups, but then you're stuck with Knight as a shooting guard, which pushes out other players you may want on the roster.

In other words, I really like Shaq, but keeping him probably means an imbalanced roster. He might be worth that, but it's an uphill battle to make the team imho

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, I think it would be a huge mistake to assume that BK will be able to fill any meaningful role for the Suns next season. I bet the Suns feel the same way.

McDonough has heaped praise on Knight's work ethic and involvement with the team. Let's hope it pays dividends.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

McDonough has heaped praise on Knight's work ethic and involvement with the team. Let's hope it pays dividends.

The Suns owe Knight $30 million over the next two years. If they saw him as a part of the future, they would talk him up. If they were trying to unload him, they would talk him up. If they were stuck with him and were hoping to make the best of a tough situation, they would talk him up.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

The Ulis decision is today. Here's an article on it:
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/...-suns-first-domino-to-fall-in-roster-overhaul

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Ulis decision is today. Here's an article on it:
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/...-suns-first-domino-to-fall-in-roster-overhaul

If it were up to me, Ulis would still be on the roster tomorrow and it's not just because of Booker. I feel the same way about Williams. Obviously it's not up to me so I suspect neither will be with us when the season starts, unless we have a trade or two coming down.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

If it were up to me, Ulis would still be on the roster tomorrow and it's not just because of Booker. I feel the same way about Williams. Obviously it's not up to me so I suspect neither will be with us when the season starts, unless we have a trade or two coming down.

I'd keep him around too. Not sure there's space for him, but he's still got potential as a back-up floor general. Mostly, at the small salary he would get, I think you could trade him in a package later in the summer if need be. He doesn't have positive trade value, but I don't think he has negative value either.

 

[SirStefan32]

If it were up to me, Ulis would still be on the roster tomorrow and it's not just because of Booker. I feel the same way about Williams. Obviously it's not up to me so I suspect neither will be with us when the season starts, unless we have a trade or two coming down.

You know, I am not a Ulis fan, but I am perplexed as to what McD wants to do with this cap space. I just don't see a real point guard out there who is available. In my mind, Ulis is dead last among the point guards we have, but I don't know who McD thinks he is going to get.

Williams is a different story. I actually like him. He has some NBA skills- he rebounds pretty well, he can score in the paint. I really don't see the reason to get rid of him. He has some skills, he is a fan favorite, and he doesn't cost that much for a third Center.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

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[Folster]

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I wonder what the benefit of this delay could be? Maybe it allows us time to include him in a trade prior where that team could cut him and save the salary.

Or perhaps it just gives us more time to assess our options, but the decision still has to be made prior to free agency, so it doesn't give us any flexibility on keeping him.

 

[pokerface]

I don't want that headcase (Payton) on our team. For a pro athlete his play was inconsistent and his hair was utterly rediculous. He knew his hair interfered with his game but he waits to cut it until after the season is over?


Flake off dude.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You know, I am not a Ulis fan, but I am perplexed as to what McD wants to do with this cap space. I just don't see a real point guard out there who is available. In my mind, Ulis is dead last among the point guards we have, but I don't know who McD thinks he is going to get.

Williams is a different story. I actually like him. He has some NBA skills- he rebounds pretty well, he can score in the paint. I really don't see the reason to get rid of him. He has some skills, he is a fan favorite, and he doesn't cost that much for a third Center.

I have to say I've been a bit perplexed by people wanting to push Williams off the team as well. He's a very solid 2nd/3rd team player. Good rebounder and inside scorer.

 

[pokerface]

I have to say I've been a bit perplexed by people wanting to push Williams off the team as well. He's a very solid 2nd/3rd team player. Good rebounder and inside scorer.

I agree. I'd like him around but then again we don't know suns plans for free agency this year or next.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I have to say I've been a bit perplexed by people wanting to push Williams off the team as well. He's a very solid 2nd/3rd team player. Good rebounder and inside scorer.

I agree but I've been just as perplexed by all the anti-Ulis stuff. I think he can be a great change of pace guard. Without Watson, more than a year removed from his surgery and the return of his safety net (Williams), I think he could have a very solid year with us. But the rumors suggest he and Williams are both gone.

Ulis played through injuries on top of his surgical recovery and looked horrible until the last month or so of the season. He really needs to add some strength and improve his 3 point shot but I see no reason that can't happen.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Here's my general take on Ulis and Williams: I like them both. They're good character guys. They both have potential to help the team. Ultimately, though, they don't move the needle.

Williams is ideal for a third string center, but he's pretty short and can't space the floor. That makes him a questionable back-up. Would I like him on the roster? Definitely. Should we limit our options for real difference makers by holding on to his $5 million cap hold? Not in my opinion.

Ulis is potentially a nice back-up point guard. So is Canaan. So is Payton. So is Knight. So is Harrison. None of them look like good options for a starting point guard. Okobo is the only one with that potential, and even then it's an incredibly optimistic viewpoint and will take time.

There's generally room for three point guards on the active roster. If you can't move Knight (likely), you're paying him $15 million per year for the next two years. That's one spot. Okobo takes another spot. If Ulis takes the third spot, the Suns have arguably the worst point guard situation in the league next year.

We need that third guy to be starter material.

Maybe you bring in a starting point guard, keep Ulis, and use Knight as a shooting guard? Even then, it's arguable whether Ulis is better than Canaan, Harrison, or the shooting guard (Reed, Daniels) that would be pushed off the roster.

 

[Finito]

Well looks like Payton and Len are gone

 

[JCSunsfan]

You know, I am not a Ulis fan, but I am perplexed as to what McD wants to do with this cap space. I just don't see a real point guard out there who is available. In my mind, Ulis is dead last among the point guards we have, but I don't know who McD thinks he is going to get.

Williams is a different story. I actually like him. He has some NBA skills- he rebounds pretty well, he can score in the paint. I really don't see the reason to get rid of him. He has some skills, he is a fan favorite, and he doesn't cost that much for a third Center.

Not sure about the point guard pursuit, but the forward thing is interesting.

He wants to sign a stretch 4 who defends. If we follow McD's MO, he is going to give PG a shot. The thing is that we are a better free agent destination than we used to be. We are not going to get him, but I just bet he is going to try.