what were the not so bright spots about today's game?

[Stout]

Originally posted by Northern Card
Our d-line gave up 66 yards on the ground on 23 carries... less than a 3 average per carry. Last week,

GB torched Detroit (you know the team with the so-described good D-line) for about 160 yards on the ground.

In two of three games we've held the opposition to below 100...

As for the pass-rush (hurries) it can certainly improve... but if it was so bad why didn't a future Hall of Famer carve us up?

YEAH!!! this is a really terrible D-line. FIRE Marmie!!!

Uh, Favre DID carve us up. He just didn't get the rock in the end zone when it counted. At one point he was 13 for 16. THIRTEEN FOR SIXTEEN.

There was next to no pass rush in this game from us. I counted true pressure only a handful of times, and in all but one of those times, it was after about 5 seconds, which would have made it a coverage sack.

On top of that, our defense rarely did anything to generate, or help along, that pass rush. We stuck mostly to basic 4 man rushing fronts. I consciously saw less than 5 blitzes in the whole game. When there was a blitz on, it was one without imagination. In other words, predictible.

Now, if we are getting ZERO pass rush, and the QB is picking our guys to pieces (we are SO lucky our offense kept Favre off the field, because he was eating our secondary alive at times), who's job is it to design blitzes to get pressure on the QB? Uh, Marmie's! And he wasn't doing it.

So, yeah, let's fire our defensive co-ordinator. He doesn't deserve to be one in the NFL, from what he's shown.

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by Stout
Uh, Favre DID carve us up. He just didn't get the rock in the end zone when it counted. At one point he was 13 for 16. THIRTEEN FOR SIXTEEN.

There was next to no pass rush in this game from us. I counted true pressure only a handful of times, and in all but one of those times, it was after about 5 seconds, which would have made it a coverage sack.

On top of that, our defense rarely did anything to generate, or help along, that pass rush. We stuck mostly to basic 4 man rushing fronts. I consciously saw less than 5 blitzes in the whole game. When there was a blitz on, it was one without imagination. In other words, predictible.

Now, if we are getting ZERO pass rush, and the QB is picking our guys to pieces (we are SO lucky our offense kept Favre off the field, because he was eating our secondary alive at times), who's job is it to design blitzes to get pressure on the QB? Uh, Marmie's! And he wasn't doing it.

So, yeah, let's fire our defensive co-ordinator. He doesn't deserve to be one in the NFL, from what he's shown.

Agree totally with your post. What I don't understand is how anyone cannot totally see Marmie (and Greene) are a liability to this team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

the only major negative is no surprise - pass rush - sorriest in the league and on pace (no pun intended) to be the worst ever. I hold Marmie and Greene responsible.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by red desert
Agree totally with your post. What I don't understand is how anyone cannot totally see Marmie (and Greene) are a liability to this team.

Marmie, yes. Greene, I'm not so sure about. I mean, truthfully, how much talent has he had to work with? Pace may be good, but we don't know that yet. Other than him....uh, hmm...Bryant hasn't shown anything. Can that be pinned on Greene? I doubt it. It's not like he's had pro bowlers to work with here.

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by Stout
Marmie, yes. Greene, I'm not so sure about. I mean, truthfully, how much talent has he had to work with? Pace may be good, but we don't know that yet. Other than him....uh, hmm...Bryant hasn't shown anything. Can that be pinned on Greene? I doubt it. It's not like he's had pro bowlers to work with here.

He's had some talent to work with, Darwin Walker comes to mind. And I don't think you need pro bowlers to be good. You need solid players that can play as a "unit" and that he has not been able to construct. I think that falls on his shoulders.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Stout
Uh, Favre DID carve us up. He just didn't get the rock in the end zone when it counted. At one point he was 13 for 16. THIRTEEN FOR SIXTEEN.

DID NOT GET IN THE ND ZONE... ISN'T THAT THE POINT...

There was next to no pass rush in this game from us. I counted true pressure only a handful of times, and in all but one of those times, it was after about 5 seconds, which would have made it a coverage sack.

IF, AS YOU SAY - IT WAS 5 SECONDS, I GUESS OR DBs ARE BETTER THAN MOST ARE WILLING TO GIVE CREDIT...

On top of that, our defense rarely did anything to generate, or help along, that pass rush. We stuck mostly to basic 4 man rushing fronts. I consciously saw less than 5 blitzes in the whole game. When there was a blitz on, it was one without imagination. In other words, predictible.

WHAT BLITZ SCHEME WOULD BE 'LESS THAN PREDICTABLE' TO A QB LIKE FAVRE? DON'T YOU THINK THAT WAS CONSIDERED?

Now, if we are getting ZERO pass rush, and the QB is picking our guys to pieces (we are SO lucky our offense kept Favre off the field, because he was eating our secondary alive at times), who's job is it to design blitzes to get pressure on the QB? Uh, Marmie's! And he wasn't doing it.

So, yeah, let's fire our defensive co-ordinator. He doesn't deserve to be one in the NFL, from what he's shown.

DESERVE? YEAH, I'M SURE THERE PAYING HIM A CONSIDERABLE SALARY OUT OF CHARITY...

 

[Stout]

Northern Card, are you blind?

I love how you harp on the fact they didn't get in the end zone. Yeah, it's great practice to let a team simply walk easily down the field, and then hope we stop them in the end. Uh huh. Sure. That's a positive.

And you claim Favre has seen it all before? You sure sound like you've taken the stance that, since he MUST have seen it all before, why bother trying anything else? Let's just stay vanilla and hope it works? Is this so?

I'm sorry, but you compare Marmie and you compare Cottrell from the Pats, and you'll see a child next to a genius. It may not always work, but Cottrell designs very creative blitzes, makes opposing QBs think, makes opposing O lines do their jobs and work their behinds off, and generally creates something.

Marmie rushes 4 and hopes they get there. Opposing O-lines rarely have to do anything but basic blocking. The QB usually knows he will have time. He usually is right and has plenty of time.

Bottom line: We aren't being creative. We are getting NO PASS RUSH. We have ONE SACK in THREE GAMES, and NO SACKS by a defensive lineman. We're running vanilla defensive fronts. What possible defense do you have for this?

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Northern Card
[DESERVE? YEAH, I'M SURE THERE PAYING HIM A CONSIDERABLE SALARY OUT OF CHARITY...

So it would appear.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Stout
Northern Card, are you blind?

I love how you harp on the fact they didn't get in the end zone. Yeah, it's great practice to let a team simply walk easily down the field, and then hope we stop them in the end. Uh huh. Sure. That's a positive.

And you claim Favre has seen it all before? You sure sound like you've taken the stance that, since he MUST have seen it all before, why bother trying anything else? Let's just stay vanilla and hope it works? Is this so?

I'm sorry, but you compare Marmie and you compare Cottrell from the Pats, and you'll see a child next to a genius. It may not always work, but Cottrell designs very creative blitzes, makes opposing QBs think, makes opposing O lines do their jobs and work their behinds off, and generally creates something.

Marmie rushes 4 and hopes they get there. Opposing O-lines rarely have to do anything but basic blocking. The QB usually knows he will have time. He usually is right and has plenty of time.

Bottom line: We aren't being creative. We are getting NO PASS RUSH. We have ONE SACK in THREE GAMES, and NO SACKS by a defensive lineman. We're running vanilla defensive fronts. What possible defense do you have for this?

Am I blind? Yeah... my TV and computer are in Braille. You must have those at the Ministry of "Silly Thoughts"

My defense is the score. Marmie's defense held them to 300 yards net, 66 on the ground... and not enough points to win. I guess this "charity case" will pick up a least one more cheque.

Do you think, for just a moment... that there's a blitzing scheme in football that he doesn't know. That his choices are dictated by things other than this basic knowledge? That, finally - that you know more about the game then him...

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Northern Card
Am I blind? Yeah... my TV and computer are in Braille. You must have those at the Ministry of "Silly Thoughts"

My defense is the score. Marmie's defense held them to 300 yards net, 66 on the ground... and not enough points to win. I guess this "charity case" will pick up a least one more cheque.

Do you think, for just a moment... that there's a blitzing scheme in football that he doesn't know. That his choices are dictated by things other than this basic knowledge? That, finally - that you know more about the game then him...

Ah yes...the old 'fall back'...the final score.

Do you think all 'final scores' are going to be this cushy if we get no pass rush this season, oh cop-out master? Marmie's defensive attitude, the timid 'bend but don't break' defense, was ineffective far more than it was effective last year. This year, it's showing to be much the same. How many times can we allow a team to march down the field and save the game with last-second heroics? How many? Not enough, I'd wager.

As to whether I know more than him...you tell me. I was sitting next to a Vikings fan watching the game. When it was a passing down, I'd look over at her and say, 'Now you watch...we'll rush four, he'll have all day in the pocket, and it'll be a completion.' Most of the time, I was right. We rushed four, it was ineffective, Favre had all day, and more times than not (he was 23 of 33, or 69.6 percent effective) Favre would complete the pass.

So, tell me...DO I know more than he does? In Xs and Os, and the NFL (Or college game, for that matter), and pure terminology? No, of course not. I'd be a fool to say otherwise. Do I have more common sense than he? (Duh, four man pass rush no workie...Favre picking us apart...maybe me blitz a bit, rush more guys...duh). I'd say, that this moment, I do. If I can call a play AS IT HAPPENS and be right more times than not, I do.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Re: Let's see, where do begin?

Originally posted by CoachBigDog
This D line continues to play inept with no pride.

While they need to step itr up more, I think this statement is a gross over-statement.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Stout
Ah yes...the old 'fall back'...the final score.

Do you think all 'final scores' are going to be this cushy if we get no pass rush this season, oh cop-out master? Marmie's defensive attitude, the timid 'bend but don't break' defense, was ineffective far more than it was effective last year. This year, it's showing to be much the same. How many times can we allow a team to march down the field and save the game with last-second heroics? How many? Not enough, I'd wager.

As to whether I know more than him...you tell me. I was sitting next to a Vikings fan watching the game. When it was a passing down, I'd look over at her and say, 'Now you watch...we'll rush four, he'll have all day in the pocket, and it'll be a completion.' Most of the time, I was right. We rushed four, it was ineffective, Favre had all day, and more times than not (he was 23 of 33, or 69.6 percent effective) Favre would complete the pass.

So, tell me...DO I know more than he does? In Xs and Os, and the NFL (Or college game, for that matter), and pure terminology? No, of course not. I'd be a fool to say otherwise. Do I have more common sense than he? (Duh, four man pass rush no workie...Favre picking us apart...maybe me blitz a bit, rush more guys...duh). I'd say, that this moment, I do. If I can call a play AS IT HAPPENS and be right more times than not, I do.

Keeping score is what it's all about... it, on the day, TRUMPS everything else...

Marmie, like any other defensive coordinator schemes for the game at hand. Who knows, he may follow your priceless advice next week. And, if we get burned a half dozen times, I'll be looking forward to more of your "I know better..." supported by your self-proclaimed and vaunted common sense.

 

[CardAvenger]

This is sad. The longest thread coming off a win like yesterday, is the one about what the Cards didn't do right.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Stout
Northern Card, are you blind?

I love how you harp on the fact they didn't get in the end zone. Yeah, it's great practice to let a team simply walk easily down the field, and then hope we stop them in the end. Uh huh. Sure. That's a positive.

That's why they're playing the way they are, to avoid the big plays. I don't agree with them but maybe we're missing something? Maybe they don't think the CB's and Wilson can handle the assignments if we're blitzing?

It is frustrating to watch but against a guy like Favre who always wants to gun it in there, that make him take the under stuff actually can be effective at times.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by CardAvenger
This is sad. The longest thread coming off a win like yesterday, is the one about what the Cards didn't do right.

Couldn't agree more....

 

[AZCB34]

Everyone keeps harping on Greene. Umm since he has been relegated to coaching the DTs primarily, cannot we point blame for lack of pass rush also on Cary Godette who is supposedly in charge of the DEs...where most of the real rush should be coming from. From what I have seen, the DTs have stepped up their game and the DEs haven't been getting the outside pressure.

Blame should be on Marmie, IMO, and it is damn lucky the cards didn't lose it at the end. A win is a win but geez, they did get lucky too.

BTW, does Greene have it written in his contract that he is to be shown on the Jumbotron x number of times each game?

 

[Assface]

Originally posted by CardAvenger
This is sad. The longest thread coming off a win like yesterday, is the one about what the Cards didn't do right.

It's nice that they won but I'm still upset that they didn't send me any cookies.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
That's why they're playing the way they are, to avoid the big plays. I don't agree with them but maybe we're missing something? Maybe they don't think the CB's and Wilson can handle the assignments if we're blitzing?

It is frustrating to watch but against a guy like Favre who always wants to gun it in there, that make him take the under stuff actually can be effective at times.

Russ, are you surprised the Packers didn't air it out a few times and try to beat the Cards deep like the Seahawks did the week before? I sure am. The Cards didn't prove they could defense the deep ball and I thought for sure GB would test them several times.

 

[Duckjake]

Originally posted by CardAvenger
This is sad. The longest thread coming off a win like yesterday, is the one about what the Cards didn't do right.

That's because there is only one thread about what they did wrong and 56 about various positives.

It's what you see on all the boards of the more consistently successful franchises every Monday.

Would like to see the board like this 10-12 times every year over the next 10 years.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Northern Card
Keeping score is what it's all about... it, on the day, TRUMPS everything else...

Marmie, like any other defensive coordinator schemes for the game at hand. Who knows, he may follow your priceless advice next week. And, if we get burned a half dozen times, I'll be looking forward to more of your "I know better..." supported by your self-proclaimed and vaunted common sense.

Ah yes...good job proving how shortsighted you are. On the DAY, it trumps everything else. We won. This past Sunday, I was willing to take that any way, shape or form I could. If you visit the other threads, you'll realize how happy I am.

The problem is, a SEASON is not played in a day. If we allow teams to do what Favre did to us all SEASON long, we'll be 0-for the rest of the way. It's insane to allow a team to march all over the place with the passing game and expect to 'not break' in the end. Eventually, sooner rather than later, we WILL break, and then it will pour in on us.

Short field or no, we BROKE against the Lions. Turnovers or not, our secondary BROKE against the Hags. We didn't break (barely) against the Pack. It's not a good trend.

But we won ONE SINGLE GAME. I'm glad you're happy with one game. I'd rather savor the win, realize we have a major, MAJOR pass rush problem (will you even admit that, or are you still in denial?), and talk about fixing it. You don't subscribe to this. That makes you shortsighted. You simply don't care, or so it seems, that our pass rush absolutely, in all respects, sucks.

Or am I reading this wrong? If so, please elaborate.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Northern Card
And, if we get burned a half dozen times, I'll be looking forward to more of your "I know better..." supported by your self-proclaimed and vaunted common sense.

I would far rather get burned by TRYING to do well than to just lose by not trying at all.

Are you seriously advocating being timid because we won't lose worse? That's where this line of reasoning leads.

Should we send the house all the time? Of coures not. You can't blitz all the time, if only because you'll become predictable that way. But if you don't get any kind of pass rush, to NOT blitz is suicide. We almost saw that this past Sunday. I guarantee we'll see it more this season if the trend continues.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
That's why they're playing the way they are, to avoid the big plays. I don't agree with them but maybe we're missing something? Maybe they don't think the CB's and Wilson can handle the assignments if we're blitzing?

It is frustrating to watch but against a guy like Favre who always wants to gun it in there, that make him take the under stuff actually can be effective at times.

I know that's why they're playing it. That's what the 'bend but don't break' philosophy is all about. The problem is, it allows good, even decent teams to get all the way to the red zone, as evinced by the game. When a team is in the red zone, they don't HAVE to make a long play. What happens to this suspect 'bend but don't break' defense then? You pray the opponent somehow doesn't score. That's what we did. It worked, this time. How long will it work?

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Stout
Ah yes...good job proving how shortsighted you are. On the DAY, it trumps everything else. We won. This past Sunday, I was willing to take that any way, shape or form I could. If you visit the other threads, you'll realize how happy I am.

The problem is, a SEASON is not played in a day. If we allow teams to do what Favre did to us all SEASON long, we'll be 0-for the rest of the way. It's insane to allow a team to march all over the place with the passing game and expect to 'not break' in the end. Eventually, sooner rather than later, we WILL break, and then it will pour in on us.

Short field or no, we BROKE against the Lions. Turnovers or not, our secondary BROKE against the Hags. We didn't break (barely) against the Pack. It's not a good trend.

But we won ONE SINGLE GAME. I'm glad you're happy with one game. I'd rather savor the win, realize we have a major, MAJOR pass rush problem (will you even admit that, or are you still in denial?), and talk about fixing it. You don't subscribe to this. That makes you shortsighted. You simply don't care, or so it seems, that our pass rush absolutely, in all respects, sucks.

Or am I reading this wrong? If so, please elaborate.

Stout, SEASONS are played one game at a time.

Coaches prepare for one game at a time.

Having spent 10 years of one shift, one period and one game of hockey at a time, I'm not too concerned about what you might consider shortsighted.

Again, I'm sure this fails your test of common sense... so, let's leave at that.

 

[Stout]

Like I asked, and you ignored...are you not concerned with lack of a pass rush? Do you think it's just all right we can't get to the QB? Please, you tell me I have no common sense, but you won't answer this?

And, if this isn't a concern, I'd most certainly have to question your sanity, not just your common sense

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Stout
Like I asked, and you ignored...are you not concerned with lack of a pass rush? Do you think it's just all right we can't get to the QB? Please, you tell me I have no common sense, but you won't answer this?

And, if this isn't a concern, I'd most certainly have to question your sanity, not just your common sense

I tried to put an end to this pointless discourse, but, evidently you have a deep-seeded need to continue.

I had earlier addressed your point about the need for a more efficient pass rush.

The issue, IMO - was whether there had been a concious choice by Marmie to scheme in a fashion which limited Favre's ability to take full advantage of a pass rush. I think it's reasonable to believe he did... and that he'll prepare from week to week in a fashion which best uses his personnel and takes advantage of any percieved weakness.

Feel free to question my sanity and common sense, what certainly is not in question is your repetitive, sophomoric diatribe... supported by the arrogance of either youth (which is excusable) or a second rate mind, for which we can only offer our deepest sympathies.