What would an ILB Breakout Season even Look Like in Vance's Defense?

[kerouac9]

So... based on the "Breakout player" Thread, I was trying to build a range of what a breakout season could look like for Zaven Collins or Simmons. I started looking at the ILB production for Vance's past defenses:

2016 Dolphins (they played a 4-3 base)

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2017 Broncos:

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2018 Broncos:

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I was hoping to see the opportunity for some Devin White-style breakout, but I don't think that's how Joseph's defense is designed to work. Total waste of talent (maybe).

 

[BigRedRage]

A big jump in the ILB department this year is pretty much mandatory to prove we are not still wasting 1st round picks

 

[Cardiac]

I want it to remind me of Dwash and los.

 

[football karma]

2008 Karlos Dansby. 2 ints, 4 sacks, 119 tackles

I think Simmons can hit those figures.

On one of the Cardinal videos or podcasts, they noted that Isiah produced big plays, but also had some terrible ones -- it was about eliminating the terrible ones

 

[unseenaz]

I want it to remind me of Dwash and los.

God, I get so frustrated when I think back on Dwash's career. Dude was an absolute monster, threw it all away.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I want it to remind me of Dwash and los.

If Zaven and Isaiah reach those levels, we win a SB.

 

[Chopper0080]

So... based on the "Breakout player" Thread, I was trying to build a range of what a breakout season could look like for Zaven Collins or Simmons. I started looking at the ILB production for Vance's past defenses:

2016 Dolphins (they played a 4-3 base)

You must be registered for see images attach

2017 Broncos:

You must be registered for see images attach

2018 Broncos:

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

I was hoping to see the opportunity for some Devin White-style breakout, but I don't think that's how Joseph's defense is designed to work. Total waste of talent (maybe).

I agree that Vance as never had an ILB who was an active playmaker. The numbers are 100 tackles, 4 picks and 6 sacks but as you pointed out, no ILB under Vance has come close to that in a single season. Best example is if you put 2019 Jordan Hicks with his 3 ints and 93 solo tackles with 2021 Jordan Hicks's 4 sacks.

 

[kerouac9]

My point is that Joseph's defense seems to highlight the outside players and not the interior. Von Miller, Chandler Jones, Budda Baker, Hasson Reddick, etc.

Structurally we're created a personnel emphasis that's fundamentally different from the structure of the defense.

 

[Chopper0080]

My point is that Joseph's defense seems to highlight the outside players and not the interior. Von Miller, Chandler Jones, Budda Baker, Hasson Reddick, etc.

Structurally we're created a personnel emphasis that's fundamentally different from the structure of the defense.

Agree that Keim has little clue how to give Vance the players Vance wants or needs, at least early in the draft. This season should make it clear if Vance can use drafted players as Jalen Thompson, Wilson, Murphy, Allen, and Simmons should all have large roles this year. No idea about Collins as his play is predicated on being able to call the defense which is up in the air.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Easy, our win loss record actually amounts to something in the playoffs

 

[BulldogCard]

You wouldn't see many large gains running the ball because players including ILBs are filling the correct gaps. You'd see more passes defended in coverage and a few sacks but not many.

 

[football karma]

Agree that Keim has little clue how to give Vance the players Vance wants or needs, at least early in the draft.

this might be the biggest indictment of Keim's competency

Keim picked Vance. And if Keim cant agree with Vance on the positions that need 1st or 2nd round athletes and the ones where later day picks, inexpensive free agents can work -- ugh

 

[Chopper0080]

this might be the biggest indictment of Keim's competency

Keim picked Vance. And if Keim cant agree with Vance on the positions that need 1st or 2nd round athletes and the ones where later day picks, inexpensive free agents can work -- ugh

Depending on how Josh Jones and Rondale Moore turn out, it may not be limited to the offense.

Keim has completely failed to be able to draft even functional WRs for Kliff's offense. Same with the offensive line to date even if it is only Josh Jones.

Basically, the only positional grouping where Keim has it figured out is in the secondary where he has drafted all four starters and all after round 1. Murphy - 2nd. Jalen supp 3rd. Wilson 4th. Budda was pre-Vance but I will count it to be nice.

 

[Jetstream Green]

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[DVontel]

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Woof.

I don’t blame Isaiah though, I blame the guy who drafted him.

 

[AzRedbird69]

It would look like VJ got fired. Maybe if we primarily ran a 43 D, Zaven might breakout.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Let me sum up the Cardinal draft process, impetuous ignorance. They get all excited about 'X' factor players, but those guys only work (a significant contribution past three or four odd plays) when you already have the traditional roles of the defense and offense secured. Undersized defensive and offensive complimentary players only work once your foundation is stacked, which is a luxury this franchise currently does not have

 

[reebokalone2001]

Woof.

I don’t blame Isaiah though, I blame the guy who drafted him

I too was all for Simmons before the draft. I thought he would be a beast in our defense.

 

[football karma]

I too was all for Simmons before the draft. I thought he would be a beast in our defense.

i was all for the Simmons pick

coming off a year where TEs torched the Cardinal defense and facing a mobile Russ Wilson at the top of the division, i thought he was the perfect player for the new way the NFL offenses were going

in retrospect -- he is probably perfect for a 4-3 Will outside backer -- 1/2 the responsibilities and a defined role

the Cardinals keep drafting defensive players who might be better fits for a 4-3: Collins as a SAM outside guy, Zach Allen as a DE, Hassan Reddick as a Will OLB as well.

 

[Jetstream Green]

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Ok, forget I ever posted this video, because a football guru has picked it apart. What was Krueger thinking? He's hardly qualified to critique a LB in the NFL, it's not like he coached high school ball at the football powerhouse state which is Mass
https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2022/6/27/23184597/critique-of-a-simmons-critique

 

[daves]

Ok, forget I ever posted this video, because a football guru has picked it apart. What was Krueger thinking? He's hardly qualified to critique a LB in the NFL, it's not like he coached high school ball at the football powerhouse state which is Mass
https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2022/6/27/23184597/critique-of-a-simmons-critique

Not sure what Jackson Krueger's credentials are, but my thoughts were similar to Mitch's when watching his video. Krueger certainly chose an odd set of plays to support his thesis. Especially on the first and third play, i have to agree with everything Mitch wrote - looked to me as though Simmons played near perfectly in each situation.

...dave

 

[MrYeahBut]

Hey, let's solve the defensive woes with this trade.. Muhahahaha

Proposed Jets, Cardinals Trade Delivers Former Top 10 Pick

A proposed trade between the New York Jets and the Arizona Cardinals would deliver a former top-10 pick to Gotham.

www.google.com

 

[gmabel830]

Hey, let's solve the defensive woes with this trade.. Muhahahaha

Proposed Jets, Cardinals Trade Delivers Former Top 10 Pick

A proposed trade between the New York Jets and the Arizona Cardinals would deliver a former top-10 pick to Gotham.

www.google.com

If we are going to be homer fans, then Simmons for Beckton.

 

[MrYeahBut]

If we are going to be homer fans, then Simmons for Beckton.

Well, he's ballooned to 400 lbs so he could fill 2 spots on the Oline.

 

[gmabel830]

Well, he's ballooned to 400 lbs so he could fill 2 spots on the Oline.

Vera-Tucker then?