What's Wrong with Today's NBA?

[JCSunsfan]

Its a slow news time, so I thought it might be a good time to have this discussion.

What's the difference between Magic, Isaiah, MJ, Larry Bird, John Stockton, etc and today's players? One thing has just occured to me after watching some Boy's Club basketball--all those players grew up without the three point shot.

I played HS ball and I graduated in 1980. We never had a 3-point line. It was added somewhere between 1980 and 1984. That mean's that all those players played JH and HS ball without the 3 pointer.

I am amazed to watch 10 year olds in Boy's Club games heaving up 3's from a hs line. They make an amazing # of them, but they do not seem to know that there is anything that really goes on between the 3 and a layup. They also develop terrible shooting form trying to heave the ball from that distance before they have the muscle development to shoot it correctly.

Its in that mid-range game where the pull up jumper, the catch and shoot jumper, the good ball movement gets you quality shots. Our problem is more systemic than just the pro game.

We ought to eliminate the 3 point shot from the rules in HS down. The rule began as a pro-game sales gimmick--it has no place in the youngsters game. Keep it at the College level.

I am sure there are more things, but this is a place to start.

 

[arthurracoon]

intresting...I never knew that.

Today all the "big" players are the ones that have the 'mad skillz', but dont have fundamental skills and so young players go for the beauty and athleticness rather than the efficiency and most importantly, quality.

 

[Lars the Red]

Its a slow news time, so I thought it might be a good time to have this discussion.

What's the difference between Magic, Isaiah, MJ, Larry Bird, John Stockton, etc and today's players? One thing has just occured to me after watching some Boy's Club basketball--all those players grew up without the three point shot.

.

Actually, I think it came after '85. It really shouldn't effect a good parimeter shooting team, because if your concentrating on the basket, your feet shouldn't be on your mind. Unfortunately we've all seen guys with open shots take a quick look at their feet only to have a defender jump in their face before the get the shot off.

I don't think Bird had to notice a 3 line. He shot from crazy range before there ever was one. When he played against Arkansas in the NCAA's the year he face Magic, they played at Riverfront in Cincy. There was a blue circle that said NCAA on it out on the wing. When I say on the wing I mean way out, I'm talking time zone change. On one particular play that always stuck in my mind, Bird took the ball on the wing, then raised it above his head looking like he was going to pass. Then he just cocked his wrist and fired it from the blue circle from right off the top of his head...all wrist, stroked it. We played Cincy the next year on the same court. (Two days after the famous Who concert when people were trampledto death. Boarded windows and glass still on the floor....creepy). All of us had to go to that circle during shoot around and try to do that. It's an unbelievable hoist. Larry just flicked it.

I agree with you that too many coaches and players put an emphasis on the line. Just shoot the open shot and the points take care of themselves.

 

[elindholm]

What's the difference between Magic, Isaiah, MJ, Larry Bird, John Stockton, etc and today's players?

The bigger difference, I think, is that they didn't grow up playing street ball (except maybe Thomas?). For all of this hype about street ball legends, I'm sorry, but the players are terrible. Sometimes on NBATV I watch the broadcasts of some of their more serious games, with the hip-hop guy doing play-by-play into a portable amplifier. They can't play at all. They don't defend, they can't pass, and they certainly can't shoot. Everything that Lars the Red is saying about the NBA game being based on athleticism rather than skill can be multiplied by 100 for street ball.

Even in pick-up games on college campuses, macho posturing is a lot more important than being able to put the ball in the basket. If you can't shoot, drive and call a foul; if someone argues that it wasn't a foul, just argue louder. Eventually you'll get your way and get one of your bricks to drop. I've been playing pickup games for, well, quite a while now. Even though I've never been any good, I have enough perspective to see how the entire attitude about the game has changed.

 

[arthurracoon]

What's the difference between Magic, Isaiah, MJ, Larry Bird, John Stockton, etc and today's players?

The bigger difference, I think, is that they didn't grow up playing street ball.

 

[arthurracoon]

OH yeah,

what is shown on sportscenter? What is considered a top ten play? What is a big time play? What type of play makes a poster? What play gaines recognition?

certainly not a plain old boring jumper.

nooo...the big dunks make the highlight reel...the long fadeaway 3's...the big monster jams...the no look behind the back passes...the alley-oops...the no look alley oops...etc...

what about your average plain old jumper...what about a simple layup...a bounce pass...a box out...rebound...stiff defense...free throws...since when are these shown on sportscenter?

The NBA is media driven. The media shows the "big plays" and not the simple basic ones.

 

[Lars the Red]

The bigger difference, I think, is that they didn't grow up playing street ball (except maybe Thomas?). For all of this hype about street ball legends, I'm sorry, but the players are terrible. Sometimes on NBATV I watch the broadcasts of some of their more serious games, with the hip-hop guy doing play-by-play into a portable amplifier. They can't play at all. They don't defend, they can't pass, and they certainly can't shoot. Everything that Lars the Red is saying about the NBA game being based on athleticism rather than skill can be multiplied by 100 for street ball.

It reminds me of a modern day Globetrotters gig. Curly Neal dribbling through and entire team, sliding across the court, making a no look pass to a guy with someone on his shoulders standing under the hoop for a dunk. It's entertainment....not basketball.

Even in pick-up games on college campuses, macho posturing is a lot more important than being able to put the ball in the basket. If you can't shoot, drive and call a foul; if someone argues that it wasn't a foul, just argue louder. Eventually you'll get your way and get one of your bricks to drop. I've been playing pickup games for, well, quite a while now. Even though I've never been any good, I have enough perspective to see how the entire attitude about the game has changed.

I quit playing pickup years ago because guys would argue about everything. The score. Who's ball it was. Who fouled. Who had next game. So little time ever got spent playing ball it wasn't worth it. Now if I play, it's only with a particular group. Guys that don't call fouls unless a body part is missing. Guys that only want to get in a good run, and have no one get injured. Guys that play within their abilities. No one needs to try to be Mike, because Mike's not even Mike anymore, so why should someone else think they are.

 

[newfan101]

I am amazed to watch 10 year olds in Boy's Club games heaving up 3's from a hs line. They make an amazing # of them, but they do not seem to know that there is anything that really goes on between the 3 and a layup. They also develop terrible shooting form trying to heave the ball from that distance before they have the muscle development to shoot it correctly.

Hmmm ... I never thought of that. That's an excellent point.

 

[BleedingPurple]

Three Point Scoring Adopted:

NBA - 1979
NCAA - 1980 (SoCon experiment)
NCAA - 1986
NFHS - 1987

But, I am not sure that their 'non-exposure' really comes into play, since playground rules used it, quite frequently. In school, we didn't use it, but outside of school, we sure did; the three point arc was painted in our school gym and on our playgrounds. Where did this three point idea come from?

ABA - 1967

Yes, the American Basketball Association, which included several of the current NBA teams, used the three-point shot, long before the NBA ever considered it.

And college basketball tried it in 1945, for one game, at the urging of Oregon's Hobby Hobson.

So, while the 3-pointer is very prevalent today, both on the court & the highlight films, it wasn't unknown before 1980. It is just overused today, to the detriment of the game.

I personally think it is the highlight films at fault.

 

[HoodieBets]

What's the difference between Magic, Isaiah, MJ, Larry Bird, John Stockton, etc and today's players?

The bigger difference, I think, is that they didn't grow up playing street ball (except maybe Thomas?). For all of this hype about street ball legends, I'm sorry, but the players are terrible. Sometimes on NBATV I watch the broadcasts of some of their more serious games, with the hip-hop guy doing play-by-play into a portable amplifier. They can't play at all. They don't defend, they can't pass, and they certainly can't shoot. Everything that Lars the Red is saying about the NBA game being based on athleticism rather than skill can be multiplied by 100 for street ball.
QUOTE]

I beg to differ, rafer alston aka "skip to my lou" was a major player for the heat last year. He ran that team when in the game. There are other players from AND1 getting looks by the NBA and other semi-pro organizations. Without streetball there would be no NBA today and stern and others in the league know that.

The NBA has become the second biggest sport in the US behind football. When was the last time you could say that? The NBA has been becoming more watched now because of the "streetballers".

The NBA will never go back to those good old days now bc they are making too much money with the way basketball is now. Players like AI and starbury come from the street and this is the only way they know how to play. I dont see any way things change in the NBA unless they start to lose money and viewers which they are not in fact they have more viewers now than ever. People are just going to have to get used to it.

 

[Joe Mama]

I thought that in the late eighties and early nineties the NBA was the most popular of the pro sports in the United States. They might make more money now in total, but they sure aren't selling out their arenas the same way. I also doubt that the television popularity is as high.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

I beg to differ, rafer alston aka "skip to my lou" was a major player for the heat last year. He ran that team when in the game. There are other players from AND1 getting looks by the NBA and other semi-pro organizations. Without streetball there would be no NBA today and stern and others in the league know that....

I don't see how this is a disagreement. Of course there are streetball players in the NBA -- that's the whole point of what I said.

The NBA will never go back to those good old days now bc they are making too much money with the way basketball is now.

That's certainly possible, but again, it doesn't address my point, which is that the influence of streetball has made the game worse in terms of what Lars and others call "fundamentals."

 

[HoodieBets]

I don't see how this is a disagreement. Of course there are streetball players in the NBA -- that's the whole point of what I said.

You said that streetballers cant play and are horrible but i gave you an example of a streetball legend who was a major player for a playoff team last year.

That's certainly possible, but again, it doesn't address my point, which is that the influence of streetball has made the game worse in terms of what Lars and others call "fundamentals."

I agree the fundamentals have suffered quite a bit but streetball is the only chance for some kids to be recognized. The only schools that scouts look at are prep schools in which some kids def. your ordinary streetball kid dosent have the money for. Streetball is also the only way kids become interested in the game. Without AND1 and players like AI kids would care less about basketball. If Larry Bird and players like him were playing now you would not see the same amount of intrest in basketball IMO. Kids and some adults dont want to see a game with a bunch of mid-range jumpers. They want to be entertained(that is why they pay the amount they do to go) and this is how AND1 and things like it have come to the forefront and have stayed there.

 

[elindholm]

You said that streetballers cant play and are horrible but i gave you an example of a streetball legend who was a major player for a playoff team last year.

Come on, it was a generalization. It applies to 99% of the streetballers. And Rafer Alston isn't that good. Marbury's pretty good, but one exception doesn't prove anything.

 

[Lars the Red]

I beg to differ, rafer alston aka "skip to my lou" was a major player for the heat last year. He ran that team when in the game. There are other players from AND1 getting looks by the NBA and other semi-pro organizations. Without streetball there would be no NBA today and stern and others in the league know that.

What?!?!?! Your out there, bud, the number of imports and the decline of the gangsta image are being carefully orchestrated by the NBA in an effort to improve the game and bring the core fans back to it. Basketball is alive and well all over the country, and it has nothing to do with the AND1 crap that ESPN tries to shoved down our throats.

The NBA has become the second biggest sport in the US behind football. When was the last time you could say that? The NBA has been becoming more watched now because of the "streetballers".

The only fans who watch that are the one's you see sitting in the stands. Ask someone that is over not black and over 25 if they watch it? Look at who has the money to go to the games on a regular basis. It's the boys from corporate America that pay the bucks for the prime seats that keep the world alive, not the street ball fans.

The NBA will never go back to those good old days now bc they are making too much money with the way basketball is now. Players like AI and starbury come from the street and this is the only way they know how to play. I dont see any way things change in the NBA unless they start to lose money and viewers which they are not in fact they have more viewers now than ever. People are just going to have to get used to it.

The viewer numbers are obviously manipulated because of the cable contracts. The fact that I can go to the majority of arenas around the country on any given night and pick up a prime ticket should tell you something. The fact that the demographics for viewers is about the same one's that watch WWE, MTV, BET or FOX should tell you something.

 

[Lars the Red]

Keep in mind one other simple fact. Your seeing a prime example of what happens to guys when the try to play a streetball style against fundamentally sound teams.

-They actually have to dribble the ball in a legal manner.

-Officials could care less how much they whine.

-Less dribbling and more passing is better.

-Working on shooting and not dunking scores more points.

-'Practice?....we talking 'bout practice?....I mean.....practice?' can actually make you a better team.