When to rebuild?

[Griffin]

There are those who are calling for the team to start rebuilding right now and those who want to still give it a try this year and start rebuilding next season, if need be. The problem is, as everyone here knows, we do not have our first round pick in 2010. Rebuilding usually means lottery territory at least for the first season or two after the fire sale. If we start rebuilding now or this summer, are you prepared to watch what could be one of the worst Suns seasons in a long time, knowing that we will not even get rewarded for it with a high pick? What if that pick ends up being the first overall, something the Suns never had before? Are you prepared to watch that pick being forked over to Oklahoma City while Nash, Amare, and Shaq are helping other teams win a title?

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Let the players play and rebuild when contracts expire. We will have like 40 mil to play with in 2010 without even making a move, why rush it? There is no need to tank, make moves when theyre worth it and sign free agents. Small market talk is BS, not everyone can play in new york. I think phoenix will be ok with not being able to land LeBron.

 

[lou_skywalker]

how about rebuilding NOW (firing Porter, trade Amare etc)
so that we have longer time getting ready for next season.
I think the players a re under huge pressure since everyone expects them to make the playoffs. Its not the end of the world if we dont make it. and i rather dont play in the postseason as opposed to getting killed by the first seed.

 

[pokerface]

Blow it up now or this summer and I dont care who gets traded. I want young talent, draft picks, and expiring contracts. We have some valuable/dealable players to trade. I dont mind a Suns tank job if they get to keep their own pick.


I cant stand this team anymore!

 

[Andrew]

No rebuilding until after this season, at the earliest...

 

[pokerface]

No rebuilding until after this season, at the earliest...

WHY?

 

[SirStefan32]

What exactly do people think is going to happen this year? Amare leading the league in rebounding? Nash becoming the best defensive PG in the league? Shaq magically getting 10 years younger? Lopez and Dragic becoming all-stars?
You start rebuilding now, especially if a good dead comes along. There is no point in waiting.

 

[pokerface]

Yeah there is no point in waiting. The more "talent" we've added the more we stink. If anything I'd rather we stink for a reason and go younger.

 

[carey]

Ugh, I hate agreeing with Poker considering he's run me off this board before, but he's dead on. This team has no life and needs to be put out of it's misery. A bit of euthenasia if you will. Nash to Portland for Bayless, LMA, expiring. Shaq to Dallas for expiring & Howard. Amare to Chicago for Thomas, Noah, expiring pick.

Lineup next year.

Bayless / Dragic
Richardson / Barbosa
Howard / Phoenix 09 lottery pick. (Harden?)
Ty Thomas / FA (David Lee with 20 mill in cap space?) / Amundson
LMA / Noah / Lopez

 

[pokerface]

Don't forget Richardson...he's got some value in him to some team.



We really have some interesting pieces to trade. We could rebuild in a hurry for the right deals.

 

[cly2tw]

Ugh, I hate agreeing with Poker considering he's run me off this board before, but he's dead on. This team has no life and needs to be put out of it's misery. A bit of euthenasia if you will. Nash to Portland for Bayless, LMA, expiring. Shaq to Dallas for expiring & Howard. Amare to Chicago for Thomas, Noah, expiring pick.

Lineup next year.

Bayless / Dragic
Richardson / Barbosa
Howard / Phoenix 09 lottery pick. (Harden?)
Ty Thomas / FA (David Lee with 20 mill in cap space?) / Amundson
LMA / Noah / Lopez

Nobody in this lineup is even close to a franchise player. I'd not ship out Amare and would rather give him a season to see whether he could make it. I mean, even if he walked in 2010, the additional cap is probably worth more than TyThomas and Noah anyway.

 

[pokerface]

Nobody in this lineup is even close to a franchise player. I'd not ship out Amare and would rather give him a season to see whether he could make it. I mean, even if he walked in 2010, the additional cap is probably worth more than TyThomas and Noah anyway.

Oh no...we wont have a franchise player.



Tell me....we have supposed multiple franchise players now. What glory are we reaping from them? Besides....

1) Amare isnt a franchise player...he's a scorer.

2) Even if he were franchise, he's not franchise enough to guarantee us in reaching the playoffs.

3) He just might be franchise enough to make the SUNS just miss the playoffs every year and keep us from getting a high draft pick to get a REAL franchise player.

4) Amare should be traded before his franchise killing knees need another microfracture.

 

[Griffin]

Seems most here wouldn't mind if the Suns blew it up, had a horrible season next year (which will inevitably happen) and then give up a very high pick (possibly first overall) to OKC? Or is everyone assuming that we can somehow magically get that pick back?

 

[Mainstreet]

Oh no...we wont have a franchise player.



Tell me....we have supposed multiple franchise players now. What glory are we reaping from them? Besides....

1) Amare isnt a franchise player...he's a scorer.

2) Even if he were franchise, he's not franchise enough to guarantee us in reaching the playoffs.

3) He just might be franchise enough to make the SUNS just miss the playoffs every year and keep us from getting a high draft pick to get a REAL franchise player.

4) Amare should be traded before his franchise killing knees need another microfracture.

I hate agreeing with Pokerface.

However, the Suns don't have a franchise player. I'm open to any trades except perhaps Nash but I'd listen to offers. I just don't see the Suns getting a proven replacement for Nash for a couple of years and Bayless/ Dragic do not fill the bill.

 

[Mainstreet]

Seems most here wouldn't mind if the Suns blew it up, had a horrible season next year (which will inevitably happen) and then give up a very high pick (possibly first overall) to OKC? Or is everyone assuming that we can somehow magically get that pick back?

Right now I would go with getting proven young talent than rely on the draft... especially the way the Suns draft. However, The Thunder having our first round pick without protection really irks me. But I would not let that cloud my judgment on a good trade.

 

[Andrew]

WHY?

Because this season can still be salvaged.

 

[slinslin]

Ugh, I hate agreeing with Poker considering he's run me off this board before, but he's dead on. This team has no life and needs to be put out of it's misery. A bit of euthenasia if you will. Nash to Portland for Bayless, LMA, expiring. Shaq to Dallas for expiring & Howard. Amare to Chicago for Thomas, Noah, expiring pick.

Lineup next year.

Bayless / Dragic
Richardson / Barbosa
Howard / Phoenix 09 lottery pick. (Harden?)
Ty Thomas / FA (David Lee with 20 mill in cap space?) / Amundson
LMA / Noah / Lopez

I like a lot of players in this years draft..

James Harden
Jordan Hill
Brandon Jennings
Greg Monroe
Hasheem Thabeet
Blake Griffin
Demarr DeRozan
Jeff Teague
Chase Buddinger (as a Battier/Mike Miller type roleplayer)

BUT why would we trade Amare if we want to rebuild I really dont get it. He is 26, you cant just play with only rookies and young guys or you will end up like the Bulls.

We need to trade our old players for young guys to put around Amare.

That being said our management has a horrible draft history over the last 5 years they were absolutely horrible, always making the worst possible decision with every pick they had.

Trading or selling Luol Deng, Nate Robinson, Rajon Rondo, Rudy Fernandez, Sergio Rodriguez... drafting Robin Lopez over DeAndre Jordan, Jason Thompson, Mareese Speights and some others looks bad right now.. Tucker, Strawberry, Dragic etc all turned into nothing.

Drafting is so easy, I mean if they simply drafted based on this boards opinion, they would have done a lot better.

The last time they drafted what the majority of this board wanted they got Amare, Jacobsen, Zarko and Barbosa. Well and this board only voted for Zarko and Jacobsen because it was already leaked that the Suns would waste their picks on them.

 

[pokerface]

BUT why would we trade Amare if we want to rebuild I really dont get it. He is 26, you cant just play with only rookies and young guys or you will end up like the Bulls.

We need to trade our old players for young guys to put around Amare.

You dont get it or you dont want to get it?


True enough Amare is only 26 BUT his knees are questionable to hold up for years longer. I feel sorry for any team looking to ink him to a long term max deal....its like begging for another potential Penny Hardaway/Chris Webber on your books. Very probable he'll need another micorfracture on one of his knees in the next 4-5 years....then its a good 18 months to get back to his soft defense/low rebounding form after going under the knife.

WHY O WHY invest max money into a player that just wants to score with shaky knees? He's too one dimensional Slin....I think many of the Amare supporters are too blinded by his scoring and macho attitude. I like Amare and part of me would definately be sad to see him go....But I dont LOVE Amare. I havn't loved Amare since pre-micofracture. Not only has he lost some athletism but some desire for the game....I dont see the upside potential in him like I did....I only see the downside potential now. He takes plays off...he gets disinterested. I dont want us to build around this guy....I dont want the Suns to INVEST in this guy....not for the price he wants. He expects max money and max years. He is NOT worth it. If he were to take lees money than max (or less years) I'd consider keeping him around but he won't consider anything less than max because some other team will be stupid enough to give it to him.

His game is questionable and his knees are questionable....even his attitude is questionable. Let some other team gamble on him...we've gambled and lost before and it was no fun for a lot of years.

 

[slinslin]

His knees are shaky blabla...

Going by that logic watching the NBA should have taught you one thing, any player can suffer any injury any moment.

He has been healthy and stable long enough to not question this anymore, if we traded him for another star that guy could suffer a major injury just as well.
It's just silly logic, we might as well never sign another player for more than a 1 year contract.

His game is certainly not questionable. PLEASE... he made the all-nba first team since his knee surgery, has been an allstar every year and even starter. You won't find many players that are better to build around and certainly there is absolutely NO WAY to possible acquire one of those players anyway without drafting them yourself so we might just as well keep Amare and rebuild around him.

And if we can get lucky in draft, even better.

 

[pokerface]

Yeah slin I'm sure you'd ink Amare to max years and max money like his agent wants to....then cry the blues and and say how we should have known better after the fact when he needs another microfracture. Its a fact that when a player gets micro on one knee he usually ends up getting it on the other knee as well. Also these microfractures dont last forever. He could very well need his micro knee redone considering his years after the surgery and his age.

I'd almost take the risk if Amare was playing like a franchise player but he's not. He plays like a selfish ballhogging scorer. He doesnt get the rest of the team involved....plays lousy defense...rebounds poorly for a big. You combine that to his micro loving knees and you wanna lock him in long term? I'd rather not.

 

[asudevil83]

Ugh, I hate agreeing with Poker considering he's run me off this board before, but he's dead on. This team has no life and needs to be put out of it's misery. A bit of euthenasia if you will. Nash to Portland for Bayless, LMA, expiring. Shaq to Dallas for expiring & Howard. Amare to Chicago for Thomas, Noah, expiring pick.

Lineup next year.

Bayless / Dragic
Richardson / Barbosa
Howard / Phoenix 09 lottery pick. (Harden?)
Ty Thomas / FA (David Lee with 20 mill in cap space?) / Amundson
LMA / Noah / Lopez

i hate to say it, but if you trade one of them (amare/nash/shaq) then you must trade them all. otherwise this team will be stuck at the end of the lotto for years....one of which they wont even have a pick. furthermore, they wont have any cap space for a long time to resign players.

none of this halfass kinda rebuild stuff. you have to give up on this season and next

 

[slinslin]

@pokerface
That's delusional man.. so what benefit will we get from trading Amare and not having to resign him to the max?
Lets say we get Tyrus Thomas in a deal, we have to resign him as well soon and if he is any good it will be almost as much as Amare got a few years ago.

Look what the market pays for big man or great scorers. We are definately not going to get a better player for the money we would save by not extending Amare anyway, in fact we might be forced to spend almost as much money to just get a player who is much worse.

And we should be under the cap regardless once Nash and Shaq etc expire.

 

[pokerface]

i hate to say it, but if you trade one of them (amare/nash/shaq) then you must trade them all. otherwise this team will be stuck at the end of the lotto for years....one of which they wont even have a pick. furthermore, they wont have any cap space for a long time to resign players.

none of this halfass kinda rebuild stuff. you have to give up on this season and next

Right on. They need to go all the way and not halfass like you're saying. Go through the bad times quickly and move on. Keeping one or two good players around only prolongs it.

 

[shazaam6]

Amare's micro surgery was for different reasons than other players micro's. That is what I remember them saying. His specific location of the problem wasn't in the part that wears out or gets the most use.

"We were all familiar with micros's"

Amare will mature and become closer to what he sees himself as. In contrast Diaw will be a slackjawed ......... lazy player his whole life because that is his attitude.

 

[slinslin]

Right on. They need to go all the way and not halfass like you're saying. Go through the bad times quickly and move on. Keeping one or two good players around only prolongs it.

That is clearly false, just look at the Bulls and some other teams.

The Celtics are the better example, kept Paul Pierce through all the times and kept acquiring assets until an opportunity came to get to a championship level.