When to rebuild?

[pokerface]

@pokerface
That's delusional man.. so what benefit will we get from trading Amare and not having to resign him to the max?
Lets say we get Tyrus Thomas in a deal, we have to resign him as well soon and if he is any good it will be almost as much as Amare got a few years ago.

Look what the market pays for big man or great scorers. We are definately not going to get a better player for the money we would save by not extending Amare anyway, in fact we might be forced to spend almost as much money to just get a player who is much worse.

And we should be under the cap regardless once Nash and Shaq etc expire.

Amare is a very good player and yes we could do worse. I'd rather just roll the dice elsewhere and trade him. I feel if we max him out we're going to regret it. I dont think he's worth building around.

 

[slinslin]

But instead you will end up maxing out say Tyrus Thomas unless the trade is a complete failure and then you will end up maxing out a marginal star free agent like Rashard Lewis at best.

 

[pokerface]

But instead you will end up maxing out say Tyrus Thomas unless the trade is a complete failure and then you will end up maxing out a marginal star free agent like Rashard Lewis at best.

And you want to max out another Chris Webber....And thats being generous to Amare because I dont think he was a good all around player as Chris Webber in his prime.

 

[slinslin]

Better max out another Chris Webber than maxing out another Erick Dampier, Tom Gugliotta, Wally Sczerbiak or whoever..

 

[pokerface]

Amare's micro surgery was for different reasons than other players micro's. That is what I remember them saying. His specific location of the problem wasn't in the part that wears out or gets the most use.

"We were all familiar with micros's"

Amare will mature and become closer to what he sees himself as. In contrast Diaw will be a slackjawed ......... lazy player his whole life because that is his attitude.

Since its the part of his knee that gets the least amount of use then why did it wear out in the first place?

He had one knee micro'd...another one scoped. All at a very young age. I dont have enough faith in his knees or his game to commit long term.

 

[asudevil83]

That is clearly false, just look at the Bulls and some other teams.

The Celtics are the better example, kept Paul Pierce through all the times and kept acquiring assets until an opportunity came to get to a championship level.

but the suns dont have anything close to the assets needed to aquire championship level players

Al Jefferson?
#3 pick in a draft?
expiring contracts?
youthful assets?

they traded all of those away to unload contracts that did nothing for the team in the long run

NOTHING

 

[pokerface]

Better max out another Chris Webber than maxing out another Erick Dampier, Tom Gugliotta, Wally Sczerbiak or whoever..

Why is it better when Webber went bust? Bust is bust slin.

 

[slinslin]

but the suns dont have anything close to the assets needed to aquire championship level players

Al Jefferson?
#3 pick in a draft?
expiring contracts?
youthful assets?

they traded all of those away to unload contracts that did nothing for the team in the long run

NOTHING

The Celtics didn't have them right away either.. they went through a few years of sucking with Pierce.

Maybe the Suns should do the same and that would be trading Shaq and Nash for future assets.

 

[pokerface]

See slin...the point is you're unreasonable because you want to max Amare out to keep him. The reasonable approach is to have an unmaxed Amare. We're not the villians here because we dont want to give Amare max money for max years. His knees long term are questionable....his game is one dimensional. Why is that so hard to agree with?

 

[slinslin]

One dimensional or not he is one of the best players in the NBA good enough to make all-nba first teams and start the allstar game.

You can't blame his down year just on him, the whole team doesn't function and the main problem for that isn't Amare as far as I am concerned.

It's the struggle between Nash and Shaq. These two guys are just the complete opposite. Shaq struggles at Nash's pace and Nash struggles at Shaq's pace. Porter decided to go Shaqs way and while Shaq has been a great surprise pretty much everyone else is having a down year.

We have too many players that need to be involved in plays and touch the basketball to play a slow game through Shaq.

 

[cly2tw]

Also, everybody playing next to Nash becomes one-dimentional. Dirk and JoeJ came to mind. JoeJ said himself that he was merely the "decoy in the corner" for Nash on the Suns. If Amare could pull a Dirk or JJ after separation with Nash, he deserves the max. From a business point of view, it's the smart move anyway since you always have a good chance to trade him for good asset.

 

[pokerface]

Out team is in too much trouble and Amare is not the answer. He's only good enough to keep us from getting good draft picks. He's not a franchise player so why treat and pay him as such? I'm not for just giving Amare away but he's definately dealable.

 

[nowagimp]

Out team is in too much trouble and Amare is not the answer. He's only good enough to keep us from getting good draft picks.

Yeah the problem with amare is that we wont get a good shot in the lottery. Hey if we dumped all the skilled players we could get a good pick this year, but oklahoma city(have the suns 2010 pick) would love us next year. Maybe they will take kerr of our hands since he game them such a good deal on the KT trade.

 

[cly2tw]

Out team is in too much trouble and Amare is not the answer. He's only good enough to keep us from getting good draft picks. He's not a franchise player so why treat and pay him as such? I'm not for just giving Amare away but he's definately dealable.

Well, if accumulating lottery picks and salary caps is the only vision you have for the Suns, don't be surprised if you get Phoenix Clippers out of the franchise. Or look at Sonics and Bulls and what they were able to do with all the picks of the world for the last 10 years. Do you think Kerr and Sarver are better talent evaluators with their track history?

 

[pokerface]

If we trade right while our players have some value we'll have a solid base to build from.


Some of you act like we have so much to lose right now. How far from Clipperdom are we already?

 

[pokerface]

Yeah the problem with amare is that we wont get a good shot in the lottery. Hey if we dumped all the skilled players we could get a good pick this year, but oklahoma city(have the suns 2010 pick) would love us next year. Maybe they will take kerr of our hands since he game them such a good deal on the KT trade.

And what team are we compared to now? The news media already refer to the Suns as an imploded team. We're rebuilding whether fans want to admit it or not. I just don't want to rebuild around a ballhog that doesnt play defense.

 

[pokerface]

Well, if accumulating lottery picks and salary caps is the only vision you have for the Suns, don't be surprised if you get Phoenix Clippers out of the franchise. Or look at Sonics and Bulls and what they were able to do with all the picks of the world for the last 10 years. Do you think Kerr and Sarver are better talent evaluators with their track history?

Whats in your vision? Amare turning into a solid defender and good rebounder and his knees holding up the entire length of his next multiyear fat contract? I dont see it......

 

[Iverson03]

if we will rebuild, rebuild around amare.Trade Nash or shaq.
If we want to trade amare, then we have to get a player who still keeps us in contention for the playoff spot. None of the offers give us that.

Losing Amare for the offers we are hearing also means getting out of playoffs as well. why do we want that?

 

[cly2tw]

Whats in your vision? Amare turning into a solid defender and good rebounder and his knees holding up the entire length of his next multiyear fat contract? I dont see it......

Amare turning into Dirk or JJ after their separation from Nash. I said that already. And right now, his trade value is certainly at the lowest. Even if the season is toast, you'd try to feature him so as to pepp up his stats and raise his value instead of dumping him right now. That's minimum on business sense.

 

[pokerface]

if we will rebuild, rebuild around amare.Trade Nash or shaq.
If we want to trade amare, then we have to get a player who still keeps us in contention for the playoff spot. None of the offers give us that.

Losing Amare for the offers we are hearing also means getting out of playoffs as well. why do we want that?

What fun is it to go to the playoffs and not feel like there is a legitimate shot at the finals?

 

[pokerface]

Amare turning into Dirk or JJ after their separation from Nash. I said that already. And right now, his trade value is certainly at the lowest. Even if the season is toast, you'd try to feature him so as to pepp up his stats and raise his value instead of dumping him right now. That's minimum on business sense.

I never said just give Amare away. Suns should listen to offers though...or is that bad business sense too?


My main point is i dont want Amare signed to a max deal/max year contract. For that my intelligence, sanity and everything else has been questioned.