When will the players begin to turn on Whiz?

[82CardsGrad]

And how will it manifest??

I have to believe that there is already some serious head-scratching taking place - particularly with guys like Dockett, Wilson, Sendlein and perhaps Fitz. Guys who have seen what success looks like and must now being wondering if that success was solely attributable to Kurt.

I think after next Sunday, after the Ravens essentially treat us like the Saints treated Indy last night, the cracks will start to become more visable.

 

[kerouac9]

Whis has paid off the veterans on the team and few other players are not under contract for 2012. Is anyone other than the Arizona Cardinals going to sign Brandon Keith?

 

[azsouthendzone]

They turned on him last year. They know the reality of the mess they are in. When players see they way guys like Boldin and Breaston are tossed to the curb and the way guys like Leinart are scratched for DA and Hall, it has an impact and now bad decision after bad decision has caused an avalanche that Whiz will not be able to overcome. Beanie spoke the truth last year, then quickly pulled it back, but I guarantee there are many guys in that locker room that roll their eyes at Whiz and have for awhile. They will say all the right things in the media because they want to keep their paycheck. They know that there isn't a huge market for players on a crappy team.

Worst part about all of this, it didn't have to happen. If Whiz kept Leinart and he struggled, no one would have blamed Whiz. He was in the last year of his contract and the Cards could have moved on the right way, but no stubborn Whiz just couldn't help himself. Whiz couldn't just take another division title, gift wrapped, without proving a point. Boldin......they could have paid him more than Fitz if they didn't waste money on DA, Porter, ect. But Whiz had to show everyone who is boss, who is in charge. Only problem was his whole "system" has backfired and blown up in his face. Now it is one thing after another, bad move after bad move.

This team will get pummeled in Baltimore. The only question now is how much will Michael Bidwill endure before he blows this thing up. This will take years to dig out of.

 

[kerouac9]

They turned on him last year. They know the reality of the mess they are in. When players see they way guys like Boldin and Breaston are tossed to the curb and the way guys like Leinart are scratched for DA and Hall, it has an impact and now bad decision after bad decision has caused an avalanche that Whiz will not be able to overcome. Beanie spoke the truth last year, then quickly pulled it back, but I guarantee there are many guys in that locker room that roll their eyes at Whiz and have for awhile. They will say all the right things in the media because they want to keep their paycheck. They know that there isn't a huge market for players on a crappy team.

Worst part about all of this, it didn't have to happen. If Whiz kept Leinart and he struggled, no one would have blamed Whiz. He was in the last year of his contract and the Cards could have moved on the right way, but no stubborn Whiz just couldn't help himself. Whiz couldn't just take another division title, gift wrapped, without proving a point. Boldin......they could have paid him more than Fitz if they didn't waste money on DA, Porter, ect. But Whiz had to show everyone who is boss, who is in charge. Only problem was his whole "system" has backfired and blown up in his face. Now it is one thing after another, bad move after bad move.

This team will get pummeled in Baltimore. The only question now is how much will Michael Bidwill endure before he blows this thing up. This will take years to dig out of.

There is nothing true about this statement. Boldin wasn't going to get paid $12 million a year by anyone (and wasn't by Baltimore). Boldin was never going to re-sign here. But Whis has done a good job ousting people who disagreed with him.

 

[azsouthendzone]

There is nothing true about this statement. Boldin wasn't going to get paid $12 million a year by anyone (and wasn't by Baltimore). Boldin was never going to re-sign here. But Whis has done a good job ousting people who disagreed with him.

Not saying he would have been paid that much, just saying he could have been. Whiz destroyed the relationship with Boldin anyway so you are right there was no chance he would have re-signed.

 

[LarryStalling]

The problem Whis has now is how can he tell who agrees with him. No one would dare disagree with him to his face.

 

[82CardsGrad]

There is nothing true about this statement. Boldin wasn't going to get paid $12 million a year by anyone (and wasn't by Baltimore). Boldin was never going to re-sign here. But Whis has done a good job ousting people who disagreed with him.

The deterioration in this relationship, above all the rest of the miscue's from Whiz, is the most gut-wrenching one of all to me... Q was the heart & soul of this team. His blood, sweat and tears are all over SDS and UoP. And yet, Whiz couldn't find the way to get along with him...

 

[wierwolf]

Givingup? Looked like the players especially defense looked like they were giving up. in the second half of the steelers game in particular. they could not stop the passing. Maybe it was just out of frustrations. or just plain old giving up. It looked like a whole different team when beanie went down. just my opinion.

 

[Duckjake]

Whis has paid off the veterans on the team and few other players are not under contract for 2012. Is anyone other than the Arizona Cardinals going to sign Brandon Keith?

Exactly. Why would the players turn on CKW? They've got a birds nest on the ground in Arizona. There is no consequence for losing. Just show up, on time once in awhile, and collect your paycheck.

The only thing they have to worry about is being overweight.

 

[conraddobler]

They are turning on him every game it's just not overt.

They don't play what I would call in my opinon inspired football, they play to simply get through the game.

IMO that's losing the team, but no one as people have said is really going to go out there and say it out loud.

 

[Bodha]

I think it will be Kolb 1st


a simple poke at play calling. Then it will snowball.

 

[O]

The players that played at SDS know.

They will be the ones that turn.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The players that played at SDS know.

They will be the ones that turn.

Agreed...

 

[Mulli]

The players that played at SDS know.

They will be the ones that turn.

AW will be the last to turn. His skills are not what they used to be. Then he will blame everything on the corners.

 

[Duckjake]

AW will be the last to turn. His skills are not what they used to be. Then he will blame everything on the corners.

SDS players: Wilson, Fitz and Dockett. I don't see them turning on CKW they've all been paid.

There is a telling stat. Only 3 players who have been on the team since 2005.

 

[kerouac9]

They are turning on him every game it's just not overt.

They don't play what I would call in my opinon inspired football, they play to simply get through the game.

IMO that's losing the team, but no one as people have said is really going to go out there and say it out loud.

The defense flat-out quit last season. We'd go down by 10 and in a blink of an eye we'd be down by 28. That's not the case with this team--yet.

Yes, Levi Brown quits in the middle of plays sometimes. But the D gave up 28 points quickly against Minnesota and then figured things out the rest of the way. The D gave up some big plays in the passing game to Pittsburgh, but the Steelers weren't able to grind out the clock excruciatingly with Rashard Mendenhall for the second half.

This team hasn't given up yet. I think that the offense still believes in Kevin Kolb. What he's saying to the media is stupid, and he should probably talk to someone in Media Relations about limiting his exposure (his interview with Bickley and MJ yesterday was awful). The defense is honestly trying to figure out a system that they are apparently buying into, and have improved from last year.

There just aren't that many players that are in a position to quit and play selfishly. That's kind of a good thing, since most of the group will be better prepared next season, when ostensibly Whis will make a move to save his job.

 

[Duckjake]

The defense flat-out quit last season. We'd go down by 10 and in a blink of an eye we'd be down by 28. That's not the case with this team--yet.

Yes, Levi Brown quits in the middle of plays sometimes. But the D gave up 28 points quickly against Minnesota and then figured things out the rest of the way. The D gave up some big plays in the passing game to Pittsburgh, but the Steelers weren't able to grind out the clock excruciatingly with Rashard Mendenhall for the second half.

This team hasn't given up yet. I think that the offense still believes in Kevin Kolb. What he's saying to the media is stupid, and he should probably talk to someone in Media Relations about limiting his exposure (his interview with Bickley and MJ yesterday was awful). The defense is honestly trying to figure out a system that they are apparently buying into, and have improved from last year.

There just aren't that many players that are in a position to quit and play selfishly. That's kind of a good thing, since most of the group will be better prepared next season, when ostensibly Whis will make a move to save his job.

I don't know. It could be the Cards are hanging in because its a return to the days of yesteryear when opponents would come in and just have fun, laugh and cut up on the sidelines, because they knew they could beat the Cards by just showing up. That's why the Cards would pull off the home upset win once a year.

Evidence is that as soon as the Cards would get close the opponent would get serious and go on a seemingly effortless 80 yard drive to put the game back out of reach. Just like we saw Sunday.

 

[Cheesebeef]

we also haven't been on the road against GOOD opponents all that much yet. The quitting started in Minny (I don't buy that we didn't quit... the Vikings just sat on the ball and are that inept that the game wasn't worse). Baltimore will destroy us, we'll come back for a struggle W against the Rams and then we'll get anhiliated by the Eagles and Niners. The scores in losses is all a function of how tough the game is. We've got three of four really tough ones coming up and I think we'll start seeing some brutal scores like we did last year coming with it.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't know. It could be the Cards are hanging in because its a return to the days of yesteryear when opponents would come in and just have fun, laugh and cut up on the sidelines, because they knew they could beat the Cards by just showing up. That's why the Cards would pull off the home upset win once a year.

Evidence is that as soon as the Cards would get close the opponent would get serious and go on a seemingly effortless 80 yard drive to put the game back out of reach. Just like we saw Sunday.

Maybe. I don't know. To me, it's clear that a team has quit (versus not being good enough) when the opposing offense just imposes their will on the team, and the Cards can't do anything to stop it. This usually happens in the running game.

The secondary is confused and possibly not talented enough, but they're largely still chasing down plays and playing within the system. But the front seven is mostly holding opposing runners to acceptable averages and not just getting the clock ground out on them.

Cheese makes a good point that this isn't happening because we've played a lot of games at home. I don't think we have a chance against good teams, but we've contained some good running backs this season that we weren't able to do against even mediocre running games last year.

I think that's something to build on. If we can continue to do that, I'll take it as a sign that at least the players are still engaged. If that starts to fall apart and we're seeing quarters where there area total of three drives, then I'll start to believe that the team has quit.

There's plenty of time for that to happen. Peyton Hillis could come in to UofP and have 35 rushes for 130 yards and 2 TDs and the Cards just can't get off the field.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

we also haven't been on the road against GOOD opponents all that much yet. The quitting started in Minny (I don't buy that we didn't quit... the Vikings just sat on the ball and are that inept that the game wasn't worse). Baltimore will destroy us, we'll come back for a struggle W against the Rams and then we'll get anhiliated by the Eagles and Niners. The scores in losses is all a function of how tough the game is. We've got three of four really tough ones coming up and I think we'll start seeing some brutal scores like we did last year coming with it.

When was the last time the Cards have beaten a team that was significantly win-less? As in 0-3 or worse....

 

[82CardsGrad]

we also haven't been on the road against GOOD opponents all that much yet. The quitting started in Minny (I don't buy that we didn't quit... the Vikings just sat on the ball and are that inept that the game wasn't worse). Baltimore will destroy us, we'll come back for a struggle W against the Rams and then we'll get anhiliated by the Eagles and Niners. The scores in losses is all a function of how tough the game is. We've got three of four really tough ones coming up and I think we'll start seeing some brutal scores like we did last year coming with it.