Where is This Team Really Headed?

[Tangodnzr]

Optomism seems to be running quite high right now. It's not quite as lonely being out on the positive gangplank anymore.
But just where is this team now? And where ARE they headed?

One of the things that amazes me (well maybe it really doesn't) is seeing some posters going from "Everything about the Cards sucks", to "Now here's what Graves has to do NOW if the Cards are going to be any good".

My take has been for quite awhile now:
This years goals- 8-8 to 10-6, make the playoffs if things bounce right.
Next year - Division Champs, decent playoff run.
2005+ - Serious super bowl contenders

With Starks going down, my guess is any realistic chances of being remote super bowl contenders would take a miracle of some kind this year. But I didn't expect them to anyway.

To me the most important thing now, is not to panic, and make any hasty short-sighted moves, and make sure that temporary bumps (which ARE going to occur no matter what) don't deviate the long term development just to band aide a situation.

At the moment I see the most important need to be the cornerback situation. I am still not totally sold on David Barrett as the long term answer at the one spot.
Now I no longer see Starks as that either.
That's a serious problem.

How do you fix it? The free agent market has been and is declining. What young upside possibilities do the Cards have now? Look to the draft? Try and pull of a major trade?

Myself I find it a little ironic that suddenly the situation seems to have almost reversed itself. Before, people were saying, "If we can only get a pass rush the DB's will do fine", to now maybe having a decent pass rush, but suspect CB's.

If I were the Cards, one of the things I'd be putting a little extra effort into at the moment is scouting other teams possible young players that they might try to slip through to the practice squad.
Are there any possibilities there?

I don't care about the instant fix there. Though maybe not the long term answer, I think Barrett, Hill, Rhinehart are at least servicable enough to get us through the year. WE WEREN'T PLANNING ON GOING TO THE SUPER BOWL ANYWAY!

McCown seems to be coming along decently. As long as Blake doesn't go down early, I see no real cause for worry there either.

The receivers should develop nicely this year.

This year should more clearly define what, if any, additional changes need to be made on the Def. Line.

RB's, including FB's, O-LINE, Linebackers, Safeties, kicking game . . . all pretty well set.

So Where does the team exactly go from here?

 

[spanky]

I suggest we break the season down into 4 quarters. Our first quarter consistes of the following games: Detroit; Seattle; Green Bay and St. Louis. Once the starting line up is set, trust in it and believe in it. Measure our progress game by game, but do not push any panic buttons early. Plan to be 3-1 at the end of the 1st quarter.

Is this realistic? Assuming our starting line up is not dessimated by injury, my answer is yes. We are sufficiently under everyone's radar screen that winning in Detroit won't raise anyone's attention nor will a victory over Seattle. But if we go 4-0 in preseason and start the year at 2-0, then we'll start to raise eyebrows. Especially if really good stuff happens......like an offensive thrust that dominates others and a defense that causes unusually high turnovers. Green Bay comes into town not knowing who the real Cards are. And they lose.......bingo we are 3-0. Now the chants of "break up the Cards" are being heard. It goes to our heads and we lose a squeaker to the Rams.

At the end of the 1st quarter we are ahead. Make plans for the 2nd quarter.

 

[kerouac9]

The team needs to draft a cornerback in the first round next year. They should (let's be realistic) have a Top 15 pick in 2004, and that should yield a decent cover-corner prospect, a la Andre Woolfolk or Phillip Buchanon. This needs to be a player that can contribute immediately, not a project like Mike Stone or Dennis Johnson. I'm tired of waiting for the coaching staff to develop players; they haven't shown the ability to do so. Good to great corners don't come on the open market anymore (if Bailey, Woodson, or Springs reach Free Agency this year, stay away from them), so you have to build at that position.

Above-average wide recievers come into free agency pretty regularly. If this staff doesn't develop, we should be able to add a play-maker through free agency. The price will be high, but it will be worth it.

I'm not sold on our middle-linebackers at this moment, and if a good player is available in the second round, we should jump all over one. If not, we still desperately need a serviceable strong-side defensive end. KVB is a bust, Wakefield is an above-average backup, but we need someone like Vonnie Holliday to contain the run and move the pocket.

Otherwise, I don't mind filling in the "core" of the team with veterans with some time ahead of them. If this team can stay together and mature, and if the offensive line can stay healthy, this team is not as far from contention as some may think.

One caveat: If the McCown experiment fails, it will set The Plan back at least two years. A corner can't be selected next year, a quarterback will have to be. Blake isn't a long-term answer, and will probably be out of here by the end of the 2004-5 season (if his history is any indication).

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Sweet post Tango!

Completely agree with everything.

But I still think we go get Alex Molden, he is a solid player, and would fit in nice with this team.

Besides that, YOU ARE RIGHT! We should go with what we got.

Peace

 

[AZCB34]

I think Graves has made it his plan overall to build from within thus I suspect the Cards will make CB a top priority in the next draft...even if they believe Starks will return fully (this is why I wanted a CB so badly in the draft this year early on).

I am OK with having a CB corp of Barrett, Hill, Rhinehart and Eason (who I believe played well enough to make the team). They will play OK and with a potentially improved pass rush even I will admit that can only help them.

The key will be from here for Graves to gameplan next year and ensure that any FAs upcoming he feels are vital to keep get resigned. That way, next offseason can be used to plan hardcore for draft and unrestricted FAs entering the market. He needs to make another Colvin-type run at top FAs...even if he comes up short.

WR is a position which will need watching. Development is key. Early returns are Boldin is the real deal and Graves did well, Johnson has been a whif thusfar but nowhere close to being labeled bust (I find it a bit unnerving many counted on him to return punts and he isn;t even going to be doing that).

This team is in a building year no matter how you slice it with so many young players. I will stick to 7-9 as my guess...if we get full alignment of stars and planets 9-7.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Good to great corners don't come on the open market anymore (if Bailey, Woodson, or Springs reach Free Agency this year, stay away from them),

Why? Obtaining one of those guys would allow us to draft another position of need.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Rivercard
Why? Obtaining one of those guys would allow us to draft another position of need.

Because it would mean that they're not very good anymore. No position is more valuable in the NFL today than cornerback. Team's nickel and dime corners were signed as starters for other teams this season (like the Vikings). People on this board are saying that other team's seventh corners are good enough to start for us.

Do you think that the Raiders, Seahawks, and Redskins don't know what they have better than we might? You don't let top-shelf, or even middle-tier, corners leave, because they're the "cornerstone" of your defense.

We already overpaid for an overrated corner in Duane Starks, who was an above-average #2 corner, but not good enough to "shut down one side of the field," which is what we wanted him to do. He'd be an excellent #1 corner in a Cover 2 scheme, but he's not an elite cover corner. You get those in the draft.

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Johnson has been a whif thusfar but nowhere close to being labeled bust (I find it a bit unnerving many counted on him to return punts and he isn;t even going to be doing that).

Bust, I can't believe what I'm reading, do you have any clue ?

All I hear for months is how most WR take at least a year to "get" playing in the NFL. We get excited becuse Q seems ahead a schedule.

Now because he is not ahead of schedule BJ is bust, pleeezze. At least let him play in one regualr season game before giving up on him (sarcasm intended). If by week 2 he isn't outplaying Randy Moss or TO then ok maybe he is a bust.

 

[Sandan]

Actaully we don't know if Starks is overrated or not do we, he hasn't played enough to know

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by nidan
Bust, I can't believe what I'm reading, do you have any clue ?

All I hear for months is how most WR take at least a year to "get" playing in the NFL. We get excited becuse Q seems ahead a schedule.

Now because he is not ahead of schedule BJ is bust, pleeezze. At least let him play in one regualr season game before giving up on him (sarcasm intended). If by week 2 he isn't outplaying Randy Moss or TO then ok maybe he is a bust.

I said it is too early to be called a bust but frankly I am disappointed. I have never opnce mentioned the year thing for a WR. He was drafted to play and he isn't playing well right now.

I have a total clue. See I know you are a

EDIT: I am sick and tired of you coming on here like you are some genius. Just because you get some insider privileges doesn;t mean you know squat.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Because it would mean that they're not very good anymore.

I don't know where you come up with this stuff Kerouac! Many top-quality free agents will be available next year because they want mega-$$ and/or a change of scenery. CB's are no exception to that. Only time will tell if the top-quality CB's will be on the free agent market - if so, I hope we get one.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by nidan
Actaully we don't know if Starks is overrated or not do we, he hasn't played enough to know

I thought he was overrated when we signed him. He wasn't as good as Chris McAllister in B-More, and he's at best as good as Ahmed Plummer in San Fran. Duane Starks talks like he's in the same class as McAllister, Bailey, and Woodson (when healthy), but he'll never be that good a player. We overpaid because we needed someone to pick up where Aeneas left off.

The fact of the matter is, he's never going to be an elite corner, and it was misguided to think that he could have been.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Optomism seems to be running quite high right now. It's not quite as lonely being out on the positive gangplank anymore.
But just where is this team now? And where ARE they headed?

One of the things that amazes me (well maybe it really doesn't) is seeing some posters going from "Everything about the Cards sucks", to "Now here's what Graves has to do NOW if the Cards are going to be any good".

My take has been for quite awhile now:
This years goals- 8-8 to 10-6, make the playoffs if things bounce right.
Next year - Division Champs, decent playoff run.
2005+ - Serious super bowl contenders

With Starks going down, my guess is any realistic chances of being remote super bowl contenders would take a miracle of some kind this year. But I didn't expect them to anyway.

To me the most important thing now, is not to panic, and make any hasty short-sighted moves, and make sure that temporary bumps (which ARE going to occur no matter what) don't deviate the long term development just to band aide a situation.

At the moment I see the most important need to be the cornerback situation. I am still not totally sold on David Barrett as the long term answer at the one spot.
Now I no longer see Starks as that either.
That's a serious problem.

How do you fix it? The free agent market has been and is declining. What young upside possibilities do the Cards have now? Look to the draft? Try and pull of a major trade?

Myself I find it a little ironic that suddenly the situation seems to have almost reversed itself. Before, people were saying, "If we can only get a pass rush the DB's will do fine", to now maybe having a decent pass rush, but suspect CB's.

If I were the Cards, one of the things I'd be putting a little extra effort into at the moment is scouting other teams possible young players that they might try to slip through to the practice squad.
Are there any possibilities there?

I don't care about the instant fix there. Though maybe not the long term answer, I think Barrett, Hill, Rhinehart are at least servicable enough to get us through the year. WE WEREN'T PLANNING ON GOING TO THE SUPER BOWL ANYWAY!

McCown seems to be coming along decently. As long as Blake doesn't go down early, I see no real cause for worry there either.

The receivers should develop nicely this year.

This year should more clearly define what, if any, additional changes need to be made on the Def. Line.

RB's, including FB's, O-LINE, Linebackers, Safeties, kicking game . . . all pretty well set.

So Where does the team exactly go from here?

Never in history has so little been said with so much.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by AZCB34
nidan, read my f*cking post you twit. You are an obnoxious ********. EDIT: I am sick and f*cking tired of you coming on here like you are some genius. Just because you get some insider privileges doesn;t mean you know squat.

Is this really necessary??????? Maybe you should change your name from AZCB to AHOLECB.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Rivercard
I don't know where you come up with this stuff Kerouac! Many top-quality free agents will be available next year because they want mega-$$ and/or a change of scenery. CB's are no exception to that. Only time will tell if the top-quality CB's will be on the free agent market - if so, I hope we get one.

You're joking, right? How many elite offensive tackles come into free agency every season? Last I checked, none did this year, they were both franchised. Why? Same reason.

What about elite QBs in their prime? Do you really think that Peyton Manning is becoming a free agent this year? I don't.

Cover corner is the most essential position on almost any defense, and teams don't just let those players leave. If the percieved "elite" corners come on the market, I, for one, will be very skeptical as to the reasons why. Look at wide reciever this offseason: only DB was around, and he had (allegedly) huge question marks surrounding him. Do you think that a team that would let it's best corner walk without massive compensation would do it because "they want mega-$$ and/or a change of scenery"? Ask Chris McAllister.

The fact of the matter is that teams are better at managing their salary cap now then they've ever been, and rarely, if ever, have to release top talent for salary-cap purposes. Look at how many "top-quality free agents" were on the open market this last offseason.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Rivercard
Is this really necessary??????? Maybe you should change your name from AZCB to AHOLECB.

Yes it is necessary. nidan thinks he knows all and if you take a long look at exactly what I typed, his initial post made zero sense...and basically took me to task for something I didn;t say. I dislike the way nidan does his business here and popped off. I apologized last time for going after him but won't this time.

If it is a problem, Skkorp can ban me.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by kerouac9
You're joking, right?

No.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Yes it is necessary. nidan thinks he knows all and if you take a long look at exactly what I typed, his initial post made zero sense...and basically took me to task for something I didn;t say. I dislike the way nidan does his business here and popped off. I apologized last time for going after him but won't this time.

If it is a problem, Skkorp can ban me.

Everybody on this board thinks they know it all.including you. His post made sense to me. I still recommend that name change.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Rivercard
No.

River, I'm not sure that I really want to talk football with you anymore. I try to back up my positions with statistics and corollary examples, and you give arbitrary replies. It's stupid, and it only angers up my blood. Until you're willing to back up your assertions with anything remotely approaching a thought-out arguement, I'm going to refrain from responding. You're worse than Tango.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by AZCB34
The key will be from here for Graves to gameplan next year and ensure that any FAs upcoming he feels are vital to keep get resigned. That way, next offseason can be used to plan hardcore for draft and unrestricted FAs entering the market. He needs to make another Colvin-type run at top FAs...even if he comes up short.

Cubby, I understand what you were saying about Johnson, even if I disagree, but I don't get this statement. What's the point of bidding on marquee free agents "even if he comes up short"? Doesn't that only serve to highlight the futility of the Cards organization, as well as give media coverage to the fact that players don't want to come here?

Does the NFL give points, wins, or draft picks for effort by executives?

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by kerouac9
River, I'm not sure that I really want to talk football with you anymore. I try to back up my positions with statistics and corollary examples, and you give arbitrary replies. It's stupid, and it only angers up my blood. Until you're willing to back up your assertions with anything remotely approaching a thought-out arguement, I'm going to refrain from responding. You're worse than Tango.

I stated my case on the previous post - why do I need to rehash it again?

 

[Russ Smith]

Minnesota this weekend.

 

[spanky]

For the love of Chri*t.............the question started out.....Where are we headed now? And half of the replies back are discussing next year already................can't we focus a little to the task at hand.......which is THIS YEAR. For all we know, someone we've be bashing might just make the team and turn into his own Cinderella, negating a positional need for next year, altogether.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Cubby, I understand what you were saying about Johnson, even if I disagree, but I don't get this statement. What's the point of bidding on marquee free agents "even if he comes up short"? Doesn't that only serve to highlight the futility of the Cards organization, as well as give media coverage to the fact that players don't want to come here?

Does the NFL give points, wins, or draft picks for effort by executives?

Because if you have caproom and only go after middling players, you will NEVER get a marquee player?

I thought Starks was overpaid but I understood why we did it, we needed a CB and he was good enough when healthy. This year we whiffed trying to overpay guys to come here. You can't just say darn nobody wants to play here so let's ignore free agency.

I do agree with you on CB's though, it's very unlikely a great one gets to FA, if they do, you have to be suspicious. That said, I think Woodson had a real shot at getting there BEFORE he got healthy and Buchanon got hurt. I now suspect the Raiders are nervous about Buchanon's size making him injury prone, I bet they keep Woodson.

I think Starks was a huge loss, I think him not being healthy last year hurt us a lot more than people realized. You look at the number of TD passes he allowed where he was almost perfect but couldnt' make the play. If he's healthy and breaks up even half of those plays,we might win a couple of games we lost. I also think he's the perfect guy for this type of defense built on speed.
He's not a great CB but he is good and we're going to miss him.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by spanky
For the love of Chri*t.............the question started out.....Where are we headed now? And half of the replies back are discussing next year already................can't we focus a little to the task at hand.......which is THIS F**KING YEAR. For all we know, someone we've be bashing might just make the team and turn into his own Cinderella, negating a positional need for next year, altogether.

Spanky, what's the question then? "Do we stick with what we have, or do we go get someone?" Post a poll. It seems that the short-tems tactics and strategies are faits accompli right now. To me, we're basically running with the horses that we have, and there are tons of threads around saying what people think.

We're headed to the regular season. We're probably going to lose 10 games. I could point them out to you, and then tell you why, but I'd probably get banned.

The feeling that I have is that it's too difficult to predict what will happen with a team week to week, so what's the point? It's much easier to assess what the long-term needs of a franchise are going to be.

For the most part, I'm willing to say that Coby Reinhart isn't going to magially transform into Chris McAllister this season. You can quote me on that.