Whisenhunt is too smart for his own good sometimes

[TJ]

I do sense a lot of paranoia and discomfort on this board about Leinart possibly being demoted, again; otherwise, there wouldn't be several threads with many posts about BSP. As a coach, nothing can be completely ruled out. There are only a handful of players on this team who are guaranteed in their poistion and there are those who could get outplayed and benched, for example, Lutui.

I think whis knows that Leinart is the better QB of the two. When they made the decision to resign BSP to a small contract, the motivation was probably not to legitimately move Matty to #3, but to motivate him to step up and possibly take over this team when Warner is gone. In camp and the first preseason game, he looked sharper than ever, while BSP looked like your quintecential journeyman QB. Whis has preached competition at all positions since he got here so no one gets apathetic, and I buy into that philosphy.

Trust me when I say it would take a monumental collapse by Matty and a Peyton Manning like performance from BSP for things to change.

 

[Duckjake]

I do sense a lot of paranoia and discomfort on this board about Leinart possibly being demoted, again; otherwise, there wouldn't be several threads with many posts about BSP. As a coach, nothing can be completely ruled out. There are only a handful of players on this team who are guaranteed in their poistion and there are those who could get outplayed and benched, for example, Lutui.

I think whis knows that Leinart is the better QB of the two. When they made the decision to resign BSP to a small contract, the motivation was probably not to legitimately move Matty to #3, but to motivate him to step up and possibly take over this team when Warner is gone. In camp and the first preseason game, he looked sharper than ever, while BSP looked like your quintecential journeyman QB. Whis has preached competition at all positions since he got here so no one gets apathetic, and I buy into that philosphy.

Trust me when I say it would take a monumental collapse by Matty and a Peyton Manning like performance from BSP for things to change.

I've been knocking the signing of St.Pierre for a long time. And it has nothing to do with Leinart.

Its all about BSPs lack of any game experience over a 6 year career, never being anything more than a #3, and the amount of money the Cards have and will pay him. I don't like him under those circumstances as either a #2 or #3.

 

[Feeble Mcjackson]

They way i look at it is that St. Pierre said he would sign if he got a fair shot at the #2 shot. Wiz agreed and is keeping to his word. If it's a no brainer that Leinart is the #2 guy then there shouldn't be a problem because he will prove it on the field.

Last time we had a QB competition it worked out pretty well for us.

I see nothing wrong with the competition. You gotta earn it.

 

[Duckjake]

They way i look at it is that St. Pierre said he would sign if he got a fair shot at the #2 shot. Wiz agreed and is keeping to his word. If it's a no brainer that Leinart is the #2 guy then there shouldn't be a problem because he will prove it on the field.

Last time we had a QB competition it worked out pretty well for us.

I see nothing wrong with the competition. You gotta earn it.

But the other 49 years we had QB competition it didn't work out so well.

 

[lauraw]

Yeah, I trust in Whizz!!

 

[917Pilot]

The same one that threw two challenge flags against the Vikings in the first quarter last year? Yep. Real smart.

 

[bg7brd]

The same one that threw two challenge flags against the Vikings in the first quarter last year? Yep. Real smart.

TOOL ALERT!!!!!

 

[TJ]

I've been knocking the signing of St.Pierre for a long time. And it has nothing to do with Leinart.

Its all about BSPs lack of any game experience over a 6 year career, never being anything more than a #3, and the amount of money the Cards have and will pay him. I don't like him under those circumstances as either a #2 or #3.

I agree. This offseason, the market was over saturated with free agent QBs with actual game experience. Here are some names, who I think would have signed for around BSP's contract, that I would have rather had:

Ryan Fitzpatrick
Charlie Batch
Rex Grossman - by a nose hair
J.P. Losman
Luke McCown
Ken Dorsey

 

[Stout]

We all know Leinart will be #2 in the end. Making him compete for it is not only smart it keeps him sharper than just giving it to him on a silver platter. The whole premise behind this thread is silly IMHO. Anything you can do to create competition and keep your players having an edge is the smart thing to do.

You aren't looking at the whole picture here, Shane. All the detractors of the original poster focus on is the competition aspect. What you and the others fail to address is the point about who Leinart will be playing with or, to be more specific, playing behind. Most of us know inside already that Leinart will be the #2. Anything else is delusional, IMO. I do NOT want him standing there in pass pro behind the House and Oliver Ross. I do NOT want him exposed to a beating behind a 3rd and 4th string offensive line. That is simply not good football sense, IMO, and giving St. Pierre his 'shot' is not nearly enough to justify that to me, from a football perspective.

 

[JC_AZ]

Just a thought... maybe Whiz has determined that he likes what he sees in Palko enough to consider him 3rd string material... since he has the history with BSP he may want to give him a shot at the '#2' to help him get some needed exposure so he can get picked up somewhere else when he has to cut him in a week or two... Palko is a gamer and football player... Whiz kind of guy... we all know ML is #2 and if he can help BSP stay employed somewhere... let him earn it for himself... ??

 

[conraddobler]

I am not dissing Whiz in general, I'm a Whiz fan, but not everything the man does is gospel.

This is one thing where I think he's gone off the reservation on, it's probably not a major deal, hopefully nothing awful will come of it but I just want it over before something stupid happens, that is all.

 

[azsouthendzone]

You aren't looking at the whole picture here, Shane. All the detractors of the original poster focus on is the competition aspect. What you and the others fail to address is the point about who Leinart will be playing with or, to be more specific, playing behind. Most of us know inside already that Leinart will be the #2. Anything else is delusional, IMO. I do NOT want him standing there in pass pro behind the House and Oliver Ross. I do NOT want him exposed to a beating behind a 3rd and 4th string offensive line. That is simply not good football sense, IMO, and giving St. Pierre his 'shot' is not nearly enough to justify that to me, from a football perspective.

It is easier to just say "Whiz knows what he's doing. We went to the Super Bowl last year."

Whiz benching Edge leading to the Thanksgiving Day and New England suckfests was all part of the plan to motivate Edge which helped get us to the Super Bowl. LMFAO.

Everything Whiz does is part of some overall plan. He is like God. Don't question it.

Competition is good.....only in certain situations according to Whiz. If we need competition, lets start demoting all of the starters during preseason. Lets let Fitz run with the second team because afterall, Lance Long deserves a shot.

Sorry, this QB competition is garbage, and it points to the stubborness of Whisenhunt.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

The same one that threw two challenge flags against the Vikings in the first quarter last year? Yep. Real smart.

When was the last time you went to the Super Bowl Vikings fan? And you have as many rings as us in the Super Bowl era too.

We are going to roll you up and smoke you and your QB-less team this year. Can't wait.

Must suck to be so insecure about your own coach that you chime in on a thread like this.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

After all the gnashing of teeth around here I am going to laugh if BSP lights it up next week.

Whis would look worse to the players if he didn't give him a chance to play after he said he would.


It was one preseason game. Get a little perspective.

Probably not likley because Matt had one of the best preaseason games I have seen from a QB on this team the following week afer Oakland last year and no one seems to remember that Denver game at all.

Having to play behind that human turnstile Oliver Ross worries me for Matts sake but then again even if he plays well there will be those that discount him because he is playing the third stringers.

Those are the breaks. I have no problem eating BSP alive for that game last week becasue the same thing happened to Matt last year and it was seen that he couldn't "stand up to the spotlight of competition".

The truth is BSP is no where near as bad as he looked but we have learned when it comes to these preseason games (esp the nationally telvised ones)......perception is reality.

 

[Duckjake]

I am not dissing Whiz in general, I'm a Whiz fan, but not everything the man does is gospel.

This is one thing where I think he's gone off the reservation on, it's probably not a major deal, hopefully nothing awful will come of it but I just want it over before something stupid happens, that is all.

This is very true. Every coach at every level with few exceptions has "favorites" and players they just don't like, its just human nature. Its why you always see the new HC start bringing in "his" guys from his old team and not always to the betterment of his current team.

Doesn't mean they can't win.

 

[moklerman]

The only thing that throws a wrench in the general suppositions of this thread is that BSP was offered the backup job in KC and declined it on Whis' word that he would be given a fair shot at the backup role here.

If Whis is just using BSP for motivation for Leinart then he isn't exactly being true to his word and could have cost BSP quite a bit. I agree that it doesn't seem very feasible for BSP to beat out Leinart on the depth chart but he must really think he's got a shot if he's passing up the job in KC.

I still think a Leinart to KC trade could have really helped out both teams. If Haley wanted BSP he must have wanted Leinart more if it was an option, right?

 

[Duckjake]

The only thing that throws a wrench in the general suppositions of this thread is that BSP was offered the backup job in KC and declined it on Whis' word that he would be given a fair shot at the backup role here.

If Whis is just using BSP for motivation for Leinart then he isn't exactly being true to his word and could have cost BSP quite a bit. I agree that it doesn't seem very feasible for BSP to beat out Leinart on the depth chart but he must really think he's got a shot if he's passing up the job in KC.

I still think a Leinart to KC trade could have really helped out both teams. If Haley wanted BSP he must have wanted Leinart more if it was an option, right?

You really think that Brian St.Pierre is the guy to QB the Cardinals when Warner retires?

God help us.

 

[moklerman]

You really think that Brian St.Pierre is the guy to QB the Cardinals when Warner retires?

God help us.

No, but I have my doubts about Leinart being in Arizona IF Warner plays out his contract and if KC would have ponied up anything resembling what they gave to get Cassel then I think in the long run, the Cardinals would have been better off and KC would have been no worse.

Cassel's going to crash and burn this year IMO and Leinart's familiarity with Haley's system and experience with adversity would have served KC much better in the short term. In the long term I don't think Cassel is going to be any better than Leinart could have been in KC.

Arizona would have had to address the backup QB spot but with 2 draft picks and extra money that may not have been such a huge task, especially with the QB's coming out next year.

 

[JeffGollin]

I think azsouthendzone is being more than a little too harsh (and a bit premature) in judging Wiz on this issue.

At the same time, I'll admit to being concerned that - human nature being what it is - Wiz might be affording BSP a bit of "most favored nations" treatment. But we don't know this (and probably won't for at least another week or two).

I also think CardDan got it right when he pointed out that the reason BSP is a Cardinal is that, when he told Wiz that Todd Haley had made him an offer, Wiz told him he'd get a fair and open shot to compete with Leinart for #2.

I think -by statement and action - Wiz is bending over backward to do just that. No doubt some Cardinal fans with good sets of eyeballs to compare Matt and Brian feel Wiz is giving BSP (who played for him in Pittsburgh) a bit of a pass, and it's worth keeping an eye on.

But it doesn't mean that - with a couple of extra weeks to evaluate the situation - Wiz won't arrive at a fair and just decision that's best for the team. It, therefore, is unfair and premature to slam him now.

Finally, if there's a genuine QB controversy, I don't think it will involve Leinart, It will be between BSP and Palko. I think all four QB's will get a fair shake and we have the benefit of a couple of weeks to wait and see how things unfold.

 

[Duckjake]

No, but I have my doubts about Leinart being in Arizona IF Warner plays out his contract and if KC would have ponied up anything resembling what they gave to get Cassel then I think in the long run, the Cardinals would have been better off and KC would have been no worse.

Cassel's going to crash and burn this year IMO and Leinart's familiarity with Haley's system and experience with adversity would have served KC much better in the short term. In the long term I don't think Cassel is going to be any better than Leinart could have been in KC.

Arizona would have had to address the backup QB spot but with 2 draft picks and extra money that may not have been such a huge task, especially with the QB's coming out next year.

To me none of this makes sense. I also think that Cassel is a system QB and with Thigpen and Croyle as competition vs #10 draft pick celebrity QB Leinart why would St.Pierre stay in Arizona? Maybe Haley didn't really want St.Pierre?

How would the Cards be better off?

If the Cards release or trade Leinart we have no QBOTF. That means using a draft pick on another QB and starting all over with a Rookie and a stop gap veteran. I do not want to return to the days of Jeff Blake and Josh McKown. Even with Warner and a rookie the Cards could only manage 5 wins and it took an entire new coaching staff to finally right the ship.

Kurt Warner's don't grow on trees. And 30 year old guys who haven't played more than a couple of snaps of any kind of football at all in 6-8 years who turn into top quality QB's are just as rare.

Leinart would have to be far, far worse than he is for me as GM to see that happen.

 

[Mitch]

I have to respectfully disagree with the premise of this post. One of the reasons why Whiz has turned the mentality around in Arizona is that Whiz does not play scared of injuries, nor does he want his players to play scared of them. He expects all his players to play 60 minutes and play in the roles that would help the team win.

The minute a coach allows his players to sense that "hey you might get injured," that's the minute the players grow soft and apprehensive.

In retrospect, it may have appeared insane that Anquan Boldin was on the field at the end of the Jets' game when he suffered his brutal injury. Yet, that game was actually a bit of a turning point in the Cardinals' season...because, somewhat ironically, it made the Cardinals tougher...and especially tougher when Boldin returned to action as quickly as he did.

Under Whiz's leadership, these Cardinals WANT to be on the field as much as possible. The competition at their positions promotes this and Whiz's "never quit on a game" mantra contributes to it as well.

Think of how demoralizing that Jets' game would have been if the Cardinals hadn't stormed back the way they did in that second half. They were hungry to score...super hungry. This is what great teams need to be.

Some of you have expressed worry that Breaston should not be asked to return punts. Whiz doesn't think that way. If Breaston is the best guy, he'll go with Breaston.

Someone rebuked the notion of Beanie Wells returning kickoffs for fear of him getting hurt. Whiz is not going to think this way at all. He is going to expect Wells to want to contribute in any way possible. In fact, right now he has Wells chomping at the bit to get on the field and be there to stay. Whiz will show patience with injuries...but only to make players more hungry to return to action.

Why does Whiz have some defensive players like DRC and Rolle play offense? Other coaches might worry they would get hurt playing in a more unfamiliar role. Not Whiz. Whiz loves the element of surprise and he loves getting as many players involved as he can. The payers themselves love this.

Whiz wants his players hungry for action and as much as anything he's done, this mentality is perhaps the most significant reason why Whiz has changed the team's fortunes around in Arizona.

 

[PoolBoy]

The same one that threw two challenge flags against the Vikings in the first quarter last year? Yep. Real smart.

haha this guy didn't know what he was getting himself into. This isn't the ESPN comments section buddy, you can't just be a smart ass and then pat yourself on the back cause the article will go away. fly away....