Whiz & Graves Speak at Combine Re: Campbell, Manning, etc...

[Darkside]

man, are you TRYING to be funny with some of your comments because this is almost as laughable as the Levi's had a better career than AP comment. You don't have to be a medical doctor to know that a guy who's had 3 concussions in limited playing time is a medical risk... especially considering how long it's taken him to recover from those concussions.

Really, perhaps you should show me some medical reports of NFL players and doctors stating such. Or is that just your incessant babbling again?

And if you have a problem with my posts about Levi Brown, go post in that thread, it hasn't anything to do with this one, but it's still available. Perhaps you should go post in it if you have something further to add besides your asinine comments.

(Edit: It's here by the way, if you still have issues: http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb...est-move-of-2012-fa-175973-5.html#post2593305)

 

[joeshmo]

Really, perhaps you should show me some medical reports of NFL players and doctors stating such. Or is that just your incessant babbling again?

Dr. Dean Karahalios, a neurosurgeon at the NorthShore Neurological Institute in suburban Chicago. "There is substantial evidence that if someone is concussed, they have a higher likelihood of being concussed again.

"We don't know whether they are made more susceptible through their injuries or whether they're genetically predisposed to concussions because of the way their head is structured or the cushion around their brain, but the evidence is certainly there."

http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/01/...Maybe/landing_azcardinals.html?blockID=654640

Now back to my hibernation.

 

[bg7brd]

http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/01/...Maybe/landing_azcardinals.html?blockID=654640

Now back to my hibernation.

Good to have you back Joe. Hibernation can wait. Who do you like for the Cards at 13?

 

[AzStevenCal]

http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/01/...Maybe/landing_azcardinals.html?blockID=654640

Now back to my hibernation.

Hibernators gonna hibernate. You don't happen to have a quote that shows that players with neck surgeries are more likely to suffer more neck injuries do you?

Right now, the NFL is focusing on concussed players in a way they never have before. Even if Kolb's career isn't in jeopardy it's scary to just assume it won't soon be. His last concussion (and subsequent recovery time) should have everyone concerned about his NFL future.

Steve

 

[DoTheDew]

The most important thing in all that was Whis saying that Skelton will be competing with Kolb for the starting job. It's nice to finally hear Whis acknowledge that Skelton's play last year warrants being in the discussion.

 

[Buckybird]

http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/01/...Maybe/landing_azcardinals.html?blockID=654640

Now back to my hibernation.

Joe stop teasing us with your post

 

[Mitch]

Hey Joe---I hope there's a lovely woman and plenty of ice cold refreshments in your man cave!

Missing you, man---but we can give it up for the team!

Hope to see you back soon,

Mitch

 

[Cheesebeef]

Really, perhaps you should show me some medical reports of NFL players and doctors stating such. Or is that just your incessant babbling again?

you're beyond ignorant if you haven't heard this talked about ad naseum... and if you are that ignorant, here's what Joeschmoe posted (and pretty much everyone else already knew):


Dr. Dean Karahalios, a neurosurgeon at the NorthShore Neurological Institute in suburban Chicago. "There is substantial evidence that if someone is concussed, they have a higher likelihood of being concussed again.

"We don't know whether they are made more susceptible through their injuries or whether they're genetically predisposed to concussions because of the way their head is structured or the cushion around their brain, but the evidence is certainly there."

 

[Arizona's Finest]

my line of thinking with this FO is this... they may be dumb, but they ain't stupid. there's no way in hell that behind closed doors they HAVEN'T talked about this yet Stout... and if they haven't, then may god rest our souls because were truly cheering for the biggest group of complete idiots ever assembled... and as much as I bash the FO, even I don't believe that!

LOL so true.

We have to stop taking everything so literal and understand its not in a footballs team interest to be full disclosure 24/7.

Its like Shane thinking the Cardinals havent discussed Peyton Manning

 

[Phrazbit]

you're beyond ignorant if you haven't heard this talked about ad naseum... and if you are that ignorant, here's what Joeschmoe posted (and pretty much everyone else already knew):


Dr. Dean Karahalios, a neurosurgeon at the NorthShore Neurological Institute in suburban Chicago. "There is substantial evidence that if someone is concussed, they have a higher likelihood of being concussed again.

"We don't know whether they are made more susceptible through their injuries or whether they're genetically predisposed to concussions because of the way their head is structured or the cushion around their brain, but the evidence is certainly there."

Exactly. I said this before, look at Crosby's latest concussion. It looked like NOTHING happened on the play and he is probably out for the rest of the year and possibly his career.

Kolb has had three concussions in very limitted playing time. I have every expectation that he will get injured again. And when you factor in his limitted talents I dont see how the risk, reward with cutting him and signing Peyton isnt extremely slanted toward Manning.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Kolb has had three concussions in very limitted playing time. I have every expectation that he will get injured again. And when you factor in his limitted talents I dont see how the risk, reward with cutting him and signing Peyton isnt extremely slanted toward Manning.

Totally Agree.

I think there is minimal risk with signing Manning and that has everything to do with the development of Skeleton.

You sign PM, cut Kob, and worse case scenario and PM is unable to play ever again (which is looking less and less likely by the day) then you have JS who might have won the job outright anyway in 2012 against Kolb, and is much cheaper to start.

Because of Skeleton, because of the cut date for Kolb and his bonus, because of the bonus date when Mannning has to be cut....Its just too perfect.

And thats not even getting to the football component which i will go toe to toe with anyone and politely explain why Arizona is the best fit in that respect too.

Manning to Az. Believe.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Exactly. I said this before, look at Crosby's latest concussion. It looked like NOTHING happened on the play and he is probably out for the rest of the year and possibly his career.

Kolb has had three concussions in very limitted playing time. I have every expectation that he will get injured again. And when you factor in his limitted talents I dont see how the risk, reward with cutting him and signing Peyton isnt extremely slanted toward Manning.

Crosby's injury was eventually diagnosed as a soft tissue injury in his neck causing concussion like symptoms. He's returned to practice.

Your evident bias aside, I agree with the signing of a healthy Manning, but given the time frame between his release and Kolb's bonus, I won't be surprised if they pay it and still pursue PM.

One shouldn't forget that cutting Kolb is a mere $2M saving against the CAP in 2012, and that can easily be covered.

 

[Phrazbit]

Crosby's injury was eventually diagnosed as a soft tissue injury in his neck causing concussion like symptoms. He's returned to practice.

Your evident bias aside, I agree with the signing of a healthy Manning, but given the time frame between his release and Kolb's bonus, I won't be surprised if they pay it and still pursue PM.

One shouldn't forget that cutting Kolb is a mere $2M saving against the CAP in 2012, and that can easily be covered.

If they pay him the bonus and then cut him after it goes up to 15 million against the cap this year. The reason cutting him triggers only a 2 mil savings is the Cards have to pay him his 4 years of 2 mil guarantees right away. So in your scenario they pay him his 7 mil bonus, then cut him and still have to pay 8 mil in guarantees this year.

If they dont cut Kolb they are not getting Manning.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

If they pay him the bonus and then cut him after it goes up to 15 million against the cap this year. The reason cutting him triggers only a 2 mil savings is the Cards have to pay him his 4 years of 2 mil guarantees right away. So in your scenario they pay him his 7 mil bonus, then cut him and still have to pay 8 mil in guarantees this year.

If they dont cut Kolb they are not getting Manning.

I'm not saying it's a likely outcome, merely that the team was prepared to invest $20M over two years in Kolb and that the timing of things may lead to this commitment.

There is also the possibility, perhaps slight, that the team could recoup something during the draft for him. But, as my language indicates, I hardly see this as the likely outcome. More likely is that they "bite the bullet", so to speak, in the days prior to paying the bonus.

 

[Chopper0080]

http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/01/...Maybe/landing_azcardinals.html?blockID=654640

Now back to my hibernation.

Miss this guy's posts. Nice to have you back even for a short time.

 

[Chopper0080]

Skelton's development will be set back because with Kolb there is a sense of competition, a sense of fighting for a position that isn't clear. You bring in Manning and that's gone. That can't be understated. He'll still work, but it isn't the same. It's also a sign that the team doesn't believe in you, they're going after outside guys, and that will hinder development. It's psychological as well as physical. The window to develop young players and men is limited, it's very small, and you have to capitalize on it.

And you'd have to get rid of Kolb to bring in Manning. Why is that worth it? Some 36 year old QB who had multiple neck surgeries, with a bad arm?

And you're getting rid of Kolb because of? You say Kolb is a medical risk, but his medical risk is nowhere near Manning's. Manning had freaking neck surgery man, and has loss of strength in the tendons in his throwing arm. Kolb has had 3 concussions that you, and others--who aren't medical doctors by the way--deem a medical risk.

Somehow you're ready to jettison a young QB for some dinosaur who has had all these surgeries because his concussions somehow worry you--yet Manning's surgeries don't worry you at all. Makes no sense. I'd take the younger guy.

I say develop our young talent. Furthermore, I also say if you give Kolb that money to bring him in you put your chips on the table, you don't hedge bets, you go all in and develop Skelton behind him. It's no time to be a wuss. They did it and now it's time to own it and man up and see what he's got. Skelton is motivated behind Kolb, he won't be as motivated behind Manning. I say develop both young guys.

If Skelton can't develop behind a hall of fame player, then he isn't a long term solution at QB for us. Aaron Rodgers didn't get mentored by Brett Favre, but he worked his tail off so he would be ready when he got his chance. I would expect Skelton to do the same.