Whiz might be well intentioned but-----

[Catfish]

His scripted play calling early in games has really hurt this team's efforts to succeed. Game after game, and week after week, our Cardinals begin a new game with nearly the same set of plays and the same personnel packages in succession as the game before, (and the game before that), etc, ad nauseum.

Defenses are so sure of our predictable early play calling that they can almost phone in their defensive calls from watching the tapes of the previous week, (pick any week), as they are nearly all the same. Consequently, the Cards spend the first half of most games giving away field position, (and eventually points on the board), because of the habitual three-and-outs that we stack up early in games. Even with Horton's improved defense, it is nearly impossible to give so much field position, and is so hurtful to our defense to have them on the field for two thirds of the game time, and still hope to be successful.

Sadly, this has become the standard for the Big Red, fighting against tremendous odds, just to keep the game close enough so that we have not completely blown it by half time, (when the Cards seem to make their first real adjustments to what the defense is doing). When an ordinary fan can simply look at the down and distance, and the personnel package we send into the game, and predict with about 75% accuracy what our next play call will be, it is time to change things up.

The successful teams in this league do not wait until half time to change up what is not working for them,-----all the while hoping to keep the game close enough to still have a slim chance at not losing. Good teams simply don't lose games by giving the ball possession and game time advantage to their opponent for two thirds of the first half of games. Our Cardinals, however have made a terrible habit of this.

In times past, Kurt Warner could, (and often did) check out of poor play calls and direct his unit down the field. That has not successfully happened for two years now. Instead, the Cardinals predictably go about their scripted ineptitude on offense until half-time, where the first real changes are made. Much of the time, the game has already been decided by then.

Our special teams, and our defense have improved to the point that we should be really competitive throughout the league. Sadly, our offense still struggles with the same poor O-line performance, and the same predictable play-calling as we did 5 years ago. Teams just don't have to do a lot to prepare for us. They simply stack defenses to bottle up our scripted plays. Then they use field position, and time of possession to wear our defense down to the point of exhaustion. The rest is easy once they have done that, because they know that we won't change anything until half time.

Whiz has been doing this for all but one year since he has been here. That was 2008 when Haley was given the full authority for play calling. Yes, he had Warner to execute the offense, but so did Whiz, the year before, and the year after 2008, and though he went 8-8 and 10-6 in 2007 and 2009 respectively, the team was not a successful in going deep into the playoffs as Haley was in 2008. We did not reach the playoff is 2007, and went one-then-out for the playoffs in 2009 with Whiz calling plays.

I can't see this team becoming really competitive until Whiz hires a true OC and turns the scheme and the play calling over to him. His record, (though better than .500), is not likely to improve unless and until he delegates the offense to a genuine OC, just like he did with the defense when he hired Horton. Until that situation is changed, I don't see much reason for a lot of optimism for this team, even though we have the personnel to make a huge difference after a real off-season and time for healing and learning.

 

[az jam]

Said this on another thread: Bring back Todd Haley to be OC for 2012.

 

[Russ Smith]

Skelton is 19-44 in the first quarter of games this year, Kolb was 29-48 in the first quarter. Skelton passer rating of 27.9 in the first quarter, Kolb 76.8.

Skelton averages 5.2 YPA in the first half this season, Kolb 6.63 essentially a yard and a half more(and 6.63 is not good either).

The problem in the first half has been QB play, neither guy has been great, Skelton has been downright awful. Skelton has a 99.1 rating in the 4th quarter it's the only quarter he plays well in. I am sure some of that is coaching adjustments but IMHO the main thing is it is taking Skelton 3/4 of games to figure out what the opponent is doing to him so early on he looks confused, throws into coverages and all the high throws lead to picks.

Even the sack rate for Skelton is lower in the 4th quarter either we're to believe we pass block better when everyone knows we're throwing, or it suggests that it takes Skelton longer to get rid of the ball the first 3 quarters because he's not sure what he's looking at.

I'm not sure how even Bill Walsh would have playcalled for a guy who struggles that badly in the first quarter.

I think Whiz has done a pretty good job to get this team to 7-8, he made mistakes early on but he's fixed most of them and the team has greatly improved.

I don't think people grasp that Peterson has essentially won 2 games for us with punt returns(Carolina first Rams game) and played a huge role in a 3rd win(2nd Rams game). This team could quite easily be 4-11 with 2 losses to the Rams if not for Peterson's punt returns. That's largely been due to the QB play we were in most of our games this year, we basically had 2 blowout losses the first SF game and the vikings game. Even Pitt wasn't a blowout despite the final margin. Keeping a team in that many games with such a young defense and such inconsistent QB play is pretty good IMHO.

He's not perfect but the playcalling always looks better when the QB plays well.

 

[Catfish]

You make some good points Russ, but the one consistent thing about Whiz's tenure here, has been that he continues to call the plays-----(excepting the one year that Haley called them), the year we went to the Super Bowl. Admittedly, he does so because it is fun for him to do so. I am not opposed to Whiz having fun, but I really believe that he would enjoy much this situation much more if we won more.

Whiz has not been a proven QB developer. His success in Pittsburgh was more due to Rothlisberger's ability to scramble, and his ability to be strong enough to still deliver the ball after he improvised out of Whiz's play call. His real success here was when Warner was at the helm, checking out of Whiz's play call and calling something that was likely to succeed against what he saw the defense doing.

While Leinart was smart enough not to go against what the defense was doing to him, Whiz hated that Leinart constantly checked down to find the open man and was satisfied to take what the defense gave him. Whis was infuriated with this, and could never understand that Leinart didn't trust himself to throw into the extremely tiny windows that Warner would dare throw into. Whiz did little to develop Leinart as a QB. He did virtually nothing to develop Big Ben. Warner was already fully developed, and had HOF credentials, so there was no need to develop him.

Whiz has certainly not helped Brian St. Pierre, Josh McGown, Moxie, and even John Skelton. He certainly was not able to 'coach-up' Derek Anderson. In fact, Whiz seems to have destroyed, (or at least frustrated), far more QB's than he has developed. I believe that it is time for him to realize that he can successfully run this team, but that his best success will come when he takes himself out of the offense, and turns it completely over to someone who works WITH his QB, as opposed to forcing his QB to do something that he either can't do, or is reluctant to do. He has accomplished this with the Special Teams, and now with Horton's defense. It is time for him to do the same with the offense.

With regard to Kevin Kolb, Whiz seems to have succeeded in putting so much pressure on him to succeed that Kolb is playing scared. No one can perform well when he is put into a position where he feels that he MUST succeed each play. Whiz seems to have no knack for giving his QB the needed protection packages that allow him the time to read and react to the defense. Whiz seems to feel that every QB will do that just like Warner did, AND THAT JUST WON'T HAPPEN. Our whole organization would be better served with a proven OC, (as Haley showed), directing our offense. Doing so would also free up Whiz to be more able to react to real-time game situations, instead of being caught up with searching for the next play to call. You can talk all you want about the QB needing to learn the system, but if you do not assist the QB with proper personnel packages and protection schemes, all the studying in the world is likely to fall short of what is needed in real-time game situations.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

According to both Darren Urban and Kent Somers.... MILLER does the play calling on game day with input from Whiz and Grimm.

 

[Paso Fino]

According to both Darren Urban and Kent Somers.... MILLER does the play calling on game day with input from Whiz and Grimm.

When I hear that Grimm is providing input, I cringe.

 

[juza76]

When I hear that Grimm is providing input, I cringe.

there are not college teams ready to offer to grimm the head coach job? strange he doesnt have ny offer cause he worked pretty good in these years in az..coach ken probably is very proud of it..in 5 years he was able to create one of the worst offensive line unit in the history of nfl ...hall of fame coach

 

[Catfish]

According to both Darren Urban and Kent Somers.... MILLER does the play calling on game day with input from Whiz and Grimm.

They may have said that, but the pregame lead off by the announcing crew Saturday said that Whiz has the final say on all play calls, and that he is the one who gives them to the QB. I believe that, because you can see him calling in the plays from his chart on the sidelines. The others might make suggestions to him, but the plays ALL go through Whiz to the QB.

 

[desertdawg]

Some O-line protection, a healthy Kevin Kolb and a mix between Beanie and Williams...with the same receivers. That's what Whiz was thinking on offense and that would have been nice. Wouldn't have to depend on the defense soooo much, T.O.P. would be a lot better. Old habits die hard, Whiz acts like he has a QB.

Grimm needs to go, if there isn't any free agents or viable draft picks, we still need this major change. Horton has shown how the difference can be made with the same players and same system (so they say). Horton's aggressiveness shows what the system can do, and how he can utilize players, wish that was happening on offense right now.

Keep posting Catfish, I'll keep reading.

 

[Catfish]

Some O-line protection, a healthy Kevin Kolb and a mix between Beanie and Williams...with the same receivers. That's what Whiz was thinking on offense and that would have been nice. Wouldn't have to depend on the defense soooo much, T.O.P. would be a lot better. Old habits die hard, Whiz acts like he has a QB.

Grimm needs to go, if there isn't any free agents or viable draft picks, we still need this major change. Horton has shown how the difference can be made with the same players and same system (so they say). Horton's aggressiveness shows what the system can do, and how he can utilize players, wish that was happening on offense right now.

Keep posting Catfish, I'll keep reading.

I especially refer to the part where you say, "Whiz acts like he has a QB".
That is EXACTLY how he acts, like everyone that he plugs in should be able to play the position like Warner did. That is not going to happen. By doing so, Whiz makes it downright frustrating for any QB who comes in. They all feel like they must succeed right now because Whiz expects it. The young ones can't possibly know what Warner knew, and even the older ones can't be expected to play like Warner did. Warner was a rare one indeed. How many QB's can read defenses as quickly as Warner did, (and even it they we able to do so), how many QB's have the confidence to throw the ball down field into such a tiny window like he could. That is an extremely rare character indeed. It's no wonder that his young QB prospects all cave in under his expectations.

Whiz might be well served to give up his constant presence in the offense, and delegate that authority to a real OC, like he did the defense and the special teams. He is now a head coach, and he just might be able to do that job better if he would back away for awhile and look at the performances of each unit like a head coach does. He might then see what he has been apparently too busy to see, or is overwhelmed by because of time constraints.

 

[CFLredzoned]

In times past, Kurt Warner could, (and often did) check out of poor play calls and direct his unit down the field. That has not successfully happened for two years now. Instead, the Cardinals predictably go about their scripted ineptitude on offense until half-time, where the first real changes are made. Much of the time, the game has already been decided by then.

I've been aware of the scripted game plan for awhile. But I thought that was only the first drive or two? There must be something else. Maybe your first sentence highlights it. "Warner checked out..." You can't expect the playcalling to be perfect and it doesn't need to be if your QB can adjust at the LOS. I'm guessing Skelton and Kolb are not masters of the audible. So then you ARE forced to be perfect with your playcalling. That's asking alot. To have the perfect play dialed up every time the guys line up. It doesn't sound like a very realistic plan. I don't know what else they can do though with the current cast. It sure looks like we're sending guys out there that are about 20% capable of fixing the play at the LOS.

Still doesn't explain why Skelton is great in the 4th quarter either. Isn't that when we run more no huddle? Isn't the no huddle scripted? Yeah. Now it all makes sense.

 

[Catfish]

I've been aware of the scripted game plan for awhile. But I thought that was only the first drive or two? There must be something else. Maybe your first sentence highlights it. "Warner checked out..." You can't expect the playcalling to be perfect and it doesn't need to be if your QB can adjust at the LOS. I'm guessing Skelton and Kolb are not masters of the audible. So then you ARE forced to be perfect with your playcalling. That's asking alot. To have the perfect play dialed up every time the guys line up. It doesn't sound like a very realistic plan. I don't know what else they can do though with the current cast. It sure looks like we're sending guys out there that are about 20% capable of fixing the play at the LOS.

Still doesn't explain why Skelton is great in the 4th quarter either. Isn't that when we run more no huddle? Isn't the no huddle scripted? Yeah. Now it all makes sense.

Well now-----this is some real food for thought. I know that our QB's are relatively young and inexperienced, (Skelton even more so than Kolb), due to his coming from a small school program. Neither of the two have a great deal of time at 'game' speed experience, and the learning curve must be huge at this point. Your point about their inability to check out of a poor play call is very well taken. So is your point about the no huddle late in games, (when Skelton seems to excell). Now you've really done it, and thrown a heavy steel bar into the gears and stopped them cold.

I have been searching for answers to this problem for several years now, and just when I thought it made sense to me, you come along and mess with my head. Thanks for that, because now I won't be able to sleep again.

Seriously CFL----- you have made some very valid points, and I don't have an answer for you at this point. You may be totally right about this. If so, then I don't see much good coming from Whiz and company in the near future, even though, (as Dawg pointed out)----we seem poised to make a big jump this off season. I agree that Whiz feels we are very close to breaking out. We have a long off season coming up with time to hone all the parts to a fine finish. The Defense has really progressed, and with some draft, or FA help, we could suddenly get very good, (very deep), on that side of the ball. Our Special teams have been pretty good for a while now, and really progressed with the assignment of PP21 to punt returning.

I just don't see Whiz and Grim suddenly making a big difference in our QB play or our OL play, after where they have taken us post-Warner. To me, that idea gives me little hope for positive change, unless they suddenly fix the O-line so that these young QB's have a chance to actually set up and read the defense then go through their progressions without getting their bell rung time after time. I just don't get the sense that doing so is a point of urgency to either Whiz or to Grimm. Both seem to be virtually unaware that the line play pretty much stinks, and has for the better part of 5 years now. Have you got any answers to this? I welcome just about anything at this point.

 

[40yearfan]

Well now-----this is some real food for thought. I know that our QB's are relatively young and inexperienced, (Skelton even more so than Kolb), due to his coming from a small school program. Neither of the two have a great deal of time at 'game' speed experience, and the learning curve must be huge at this point. Your point about their inability to check out of a poor play call is very well taken. So is your point about the no huddle late in games, (when Skelton seems to excell). Now you've really done it, and thrown a heavy steel bar into the gears and stopped them cold.

I have been searching for answers to this problem for several years now, and just when I thought it made sense to me, you come along and mess with my head. Thanks for that, because now I won't be able to sleep again.

Seriously CFL----- you have made some very valid points, and I don't have an answer for you at this point. You may be totally right about this. If so, then I don't see much good coming from Whiz and company in the near future, even though, (as Dawg pointed out)----we seem poised to make a big jump this off season. I agree that Whiz feels we are very close to breaking out. We have a long off season coming up with time to hone all the parts to a fine finish. The Defense has really progressed, and with some draft, or FA help, we could suddenly get very good, (very deep), on that side of the ball. Our Special teams have been pretty good for a while now, and really progressed with the assignment of PP21 to punt returning.

I just don't see Whiz and Grim suddenly making a big difference in our QB play or our OL play, after where they have taken us post-Warner. To me, that idea gives me little hope for positive change, unless they suddenly fix the O-line so that these young QB's have a chance to actually set up and read the defense then go through their progressions without getting their bell rung time after time. I just don't get the sense that doing so is a point of urgency to either Whiz or to Grimm. Both seem to be virtually unaware that the line play pretty much stinks, and has for the better part of 5 years now. Have you got any answers to this? I welcome just about anything at this point.

Judging from the time of your post, you aren't able to sleep anyway.

 

[cardpa]

I think the only way we will ever see real change here is for some one (higher authority) than Whiz, either Michael Bidwill or Rod Graves (whom I doubt would ever say anything) so it really comes down to MB to tell Whiz you will hire or we will hire a real OC and a new line coach and you will step away from being so involved in the offense.

As long as Whiz and Grimm continue to believe that what they are doing will work a la Warner with what has been a steady stream of failures at QB and what I believe is not the fault of the QBs who have stepped under center, we will continue to see the struggles of the offense as we have for the last two years. I honestly don't know if even a guy like Peyton Manning would have great success here because the Whiz offense is so complex and different from what even Manning is familiar with.

 

[john h]

His scripted play calling early in games has really hurt this team's efforts to succeed. Game after game, and week after week, our Cardinals begin a new game with nearly the same set of plays and the same personnel packages in succession as the game before, (and the game before that), etc, ad nauseum.

Defenses are so sure of our predictable early play calling that they can almost phone in their defensive calls from watching the tapes of the previous week, (pick any week), as they are nearly all the same. Consequently, the Cards spend the first half of most games giving away field position, (and eventually points on the board), because of the habitual three-and-outs that we stack up early in games. Even with Horton's improved defense, it is nearly impossible to give so much field position, and is so hurtful to our defense to have them on the field for two thirds of the game time, and still hope to be successful.

Sadly, this has become the standard for the Big Red, fighting against tremendous odds, just to keep the game close enough so that we have not completely blown it by half time, (when the Cards seem to make their first real adjustments to what the defense is doing). When an ordinary fan can simply look at the down and distance, and the personnel package we send into the game, and predict with about 75% accuracy what our next play call will be, it is time to change things up.

The successful teams in this league do not wait until half time to change up what is not working for them,-----all the while hoping to keep the game close enough to still have a slim chance at not losing. Good teams simply don't lose games by giving the ball possession and game time advantage to their opponent for two thirds of the first half of games. Our Cardinals, however have made a terrible habit of this.

In times past, Kurt Warner could, (and often did) check out of poor play calls and direct his unit down the field. That has not successfully happened for two years now. Instead, the Cardinals predictably go about their scripted ineptitude on offense until half-time, where the first real changes are made. Much of the time, the game has already been decided by then.

Our special teams, and our defense have improved to the point that we should be really competitive throughout the league. Sadly, our offense still struggles with the same poor O-line performance, and the same predictable play-calling as we did 5 years ago. Teams just don't have to do a lot to prepare for us. They simply stack defenses to bottle up our scripted plays. Then they use field position, and time of possession to wear our defense down to the point of exhaustion. The rest is easy once they have done that, because they know that we won't change anything until half time.

Whiz has been doing this for all but one year since he has been here. That was 2008 when Haley was given the full authority for play calling. Yes, he had Warner to execute the offense, but so did Whiz, the year before, and the year after 2008, and though he went 8-8 and 10-6 in 2007 and 2009 respectively, the team was not a successful in going deep into the playoffs as Haley was in 2008. We did not reach the playoff is 2007, and went one-then-out for the playoffs in 2009 with Whiz calling plays.

I can't see this team becoming really competitive until Whiz hires a true OC and turns the scheme and the play calling over to him. His record, (though better than .500), is not likely to improve unless and until he delegates the offense to a genuine OC, just like he did with the defense when he hired Horton. Until that situation is changed, I don't see much reason for a lot of optimism for this team, even though we have the personnel to make a huge difference after a real off-season and time for healing and learning.

I suspect Kurt Warner checked out of more play calls from the bench than he accepted. He more or less was the offensive coordinator. Same thing with Peyton Manning. That is a primary reason QB s like these guys are so successful. They can read defenses and react very quick. Smart quick acting QB s are a rare breed. They are not always that easy to spot coming out of college as their college coaches do not always let them have that much authority.

 

[Duckjake]

I think the only way we will ever see real change here is for some one (higher authority) than Whiz, either Michael Bidwill or Rod Graves (whom I doubt would ever say anything) so it really comes down to MB to tell Whiz you will hire or we will hire a real OC and a new line coach and you will step away from being so involved in the offense.

As long as Whiz and Grimm continue to believe that what they are doing will work a la Warner with what has been a steady stream of failures at QB and what I believe is not the fault of the QBs who have stepped under center, we will continue to see the struggles of the offense as we have for the last two years. I honestly don't know if even a guy like Peyton Manning would have great success here because the Whiz offense is so complex and different from what even Manning is familiar with.

Get in the shotgun. Take the snap from Center. Run for your life. What's so complicated about that?

But I will agree with you that is something Manning isn't familiar with.

 

[john h]

Said this on another thread: Bring back Todd Haley to be OC for 2012.

Unfortunately an OC cannot turn just any QB into gold. In the end the QB must have all the tools to become a good starting NFL QB. A good OC can help a QB but cannot perform magic and turn rock into gold. We were all spoiled by Kurt Warner. After years of useless QB s we somehow got an all-pro and showed us what a real QB can do. How Kurt got by all the other teams in need of a QB I do not know. If he had cost a few million dollars more I doubt we would have got him. All we are left with are memories and apparently for some time to come. Could either Skelton or Kolb ever become a Kurt Warner? Not in your wildest dreams. Our defense for the next few years will keep us from ever dropping low enough in the draft to grab a top QB and I do not think we have much hope with the two we have so where do we get a QB? Only some luck in the draft like a Brady who came out of the 7th round or a Warner who was not even drafted.. This means we must continue to draft QB s even if it is in the low rounds in hopes of striking gold.

 

[Russ Smith]

I've been aware of the scripted game plan for awhile. But I thought that was only the first drive or two? There must be something else. Maybe your first sentence highlights it. "Warner checked out..." You can't expect the playcalling to be perfect and it doesn't need to be if your QB can adjust at the LOS. I'm guessing Skelton and Kolb are not masters of the audible. So then you ARE forced to be perfect with your playcalling. That's asking alot. To have the perfect play dialed up every time the guys line up. It doesn't sound like a very realistic plan. I don't know what else they can do though with the current cast. It sure looks like we're sending guys out there that are about 20% capable of fixing the play at the LOS.

Still doesn't explain why Skelton is great in the 4th quarter either. Isn't that when we run more no huddle? Isn't the no huddle scripted? Yeah. Now it all makes sense.

It's precisely that. Kolb didn't know the offense when the season started Skelton said he was helping Kevin with that.So he gets to the LOS and even if he reads something he might not have had the grasp of the system to make the right adjustment. Skelton just can't read defenses so he has no idea what he's looking at until the coaches spend 3 quarters telling him what it is.

 

[CFLredzoned]

Maybe we are destined to be Ravens west for a few years. That might not be such a bad thing. At least you can build a great defense with midround picks. And who knows, the QB play should only get better. I'm not astute enough to really keep track, but I did notice Skelton changing a couple calls against Cinci - both into runs that got stuffed. But he tried. And there was at least one play I remember on an NFL program where they broke down Skelton making an adjustment and turning it into a big gain. I'm sure Kolb is probably better with the adjustments. I doubt they would have sold the farm to get him if he has no capacity to audible. So I'm remaining positive as well. I can only see things getting better on both sides of the ball after an offseason.

Question: Do we have at least one once-QB on the coaching staff? If not, I think that really puts us behind San Fran in that dept.

 

[cardpa]

It's precisely that. Kolb didn't know the offense when the season started Skelton said he was helping Kevin with that.So he gets to the LOS and even if he reads something he might not have had the grasp of the system to make the right adjustment. Skelton just can't read defenses so he has no idea what he's looking at until the coaches spend 3 quarters telling him what it is.

I think you are spot on here Russ. Hopefully a off season to continue to absorb and understand the offense will help Kolb make a quantum leap at the start of next season. Until Skelton learns how to read defenses he should never start ahead of Kolb as it takes him too much time and too much in game coaching to get a fast start with the offense. I still think Kolb can become a very competent QB for us if he can grasp the offense and learn to make the correct adjustments on the fly more often than not.

If he doesn't show some vast improvement by the start of the regular season then I will say he is probably a bust. I just hope Whiz doesn't hold back too much in the pre-season since Kolb will need to have the opportunity to run the offense in it's entirety during the pre-season to continue to learn it.

 

[john h]

I especially refer to the part where you say, "Whiz acts like he has a QB".
That is EXACTLY how he acts, like everyone that he plugs in should be able to play the position like Warner did. That is not going to happen. By doing so, Whiz makes it downright frustrating for any QB who comes in. They all feel like they must succeed right now because Whiz expects it. The young ones can't possibly know what Warner knew, and even the older ones can't be expected to play like Warner did. Warner was a rare one indeed. How many QB's can read defenses as quickly as Warner did, (and even it they we able to do so), how many QB's have the confidence to throw the ball down field into such a tiny window like he could. That is an extremely rare character indeed. It's no wonder that his young QB prospects all cave in under his expectations.

Whiz might be well served to give up his constant presence in the offense, and delegate that authority to a real OC, like he did the defense and the special teams. He is now a head coach, and he just might be able to do that job better if he would back away for awhile and look at the performances of each unit like a head coach does. He might then see what he has been apparently too busy to see, or is overwhelmed by because of time constraints.

We could have the best HC in the NFL and I doubt he would do any better with our team than Whiz. Our defense is playing about as good as it can. Our offense, with no experienced QB and only one good RB, cannot be coached up much further than they are now. If we can finish 8/8 that will be a good job for the coaching staff anyway you look at it. Who here thought we could finish at .500 at the start of the year. Maybe we will finish 7/9. I thought at the start of the season we would be 8/8 at the best and more likely 6/10. The defense has far exceeded my expectations and the offense is worse than I thought. The defense in fact has made the offense look better than it really is.

What is our outlook for 2012? It will largely depend on the play of whoever is at QB. No matter who we draft. Having a second good RB will help the QB play. If the defense can just duplicate the last 8 games we will be better. Health always plays an important part. Ultimately 2012 success will be dependent on the play of the QB. Look at the Colts who have been consistently one of the best teams in the NFL for almost a decade. They lose their QB and they are immediately one of the worst teams in the NFL if not the worst. There is a message here.

 

[Catfish]

We could have the best HC in the NFL and I doubt he would do any better with our team than Whiz. Our defense is playing about as good as it can. Our offense, with no experienced QB and only one good RB, cannot be coached up much further than they are now. If we can finish 8/8 that will be a good job for the coaching staff anyway you look at it. Who here thought we could finish at .500 at the start of the year. Maybe we will finish 7/9. I thought at the start of the season we would be 8/8 at the best and more likely 6/10. The defense has far exceeded my expectations and the offense is worse than I thought. The defense in fact has made the offense look better than it really is.

What is our outlook for 2012? It will largely depend on the play of whoever is at QB. No matter who we draft. Having a second good RB will help the QB play. If the defense can just duplicate the last 8 games we will be better. Health always plays an important part. Ultimately 2012 success will be dependent on the play of the QB. Look at the Colts who have been consistently one of the best teams in the NFL for almost a decade. They lose their QB and they are immediately one of the worst teams in the NFL if not the worst. There is a message here.

Well said John-----There is a message there. I truly believed that we were in for another 5-11 season this year. I am astounded that Whiz was able to pull of either 7-9 or 8-8. The defense came together much better than I believed it would, and even the offense was better than I thought it would be with the QB's we have. I do look forward to healthy bodies and minds finally getting a chance to heal, and a good off-season of work to hone their talents. Still, we will only go so far as our QB's can take us, and next season's schedule will surely be tougher than this one was.

I would be very pleased indeed, if we could find a way to avoid the habit of turning out a 'stinker' game each time we seem to be poised to make a leap forward. That has been our habit for far longer than Whiz has been here. I guess that I thought that might change with Whiz's group when he came here. Not so though. Maybe I just need to lower my expectations.

 

[Russ Smith]

AS politely as I can say it, we've been here before. QB's who only play well in the no huddle are NOT proof the playcalling sucks. It's proof the QB can't execute the plays earlier in the game.

Why does the no huddle work later? Well the defense is tired, they can't sub as easily, and in many cases they're playing clock and soft zone. Also, do people really think Skelton is calling his own plays in the no huddle? They still signal in plays just much quicker.

The key is it's tougher for a defense to confuse you in the no huddle because they have the same personnel in every down.

A QB that is only good in that scenario is just not that valuable very few teams can go no huddle for whole games without wearing down their own defense.

 

[cardpa]

I still believe as a coach you need to setup your schemes to fit the strengths of the players you have available to you and not try to push the proverbial square peg into a round hole concept unless the round hole is big enough to accept the square peg also known as the Kurt Warner Era.

Russ again I agree the no huddle changes what a defense can do and can't do so it limits the looks they can give you. I also think since the tempo of the whole game speeds up the person calling the plays has to make quicker decisions and can't contemplate what to call. Maybe that is another reason why things go more fluidly Whiz or whomever is calling the plays simply picks one and goes with it with out second and third guessing what it should be.

If it is true that Whiz has final say on what play is called next I would love to know how much and how often it changes from the initial play call to what actually gets sent out to the QB.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I still believe as a coach you need to setup your schemes to fit the strengths of the players you have available to you and not try to push the proverbial square peg into a round hole concept unless the round hole is big enough to accept the square peg also known as the Kurt Warner Era.

Russ again I agree the no huddle changes what a defense can do and can't do so it limits the looks they can give you. I also think since the tempo of the whole game speeds up the person calling the plays has to make quicker decisions and can't contemplate what to call. Maybe that is another reason why things go more fluidly Whiz or whomever is calling the plays simply picks one and goes with it with out second and third guessing what it should be.

If it is true that Whiz has final say on what play is called next I would love to know how much and how often it changes from the initial play call to what actually gets sent out to the QB.

Only Miller and Whiz know the answer and they're not telling.