Whiz on The Herd right now

[MadCardDisease]

Most of what we see of Whiz is in the press, often after hearing some version of the question "what went wrong" for the millionth time. Or something sounds elusive because it's supposed to be. I have nothing against the press, but I respect someone's opinion to not play ball at times.

PS - he might be totally arrogant. Just saying we are judging one version.

I had the opportunity to meet and speak with Whiz in person. He was really nice in person but at the same time carried himself with an air of confidence. I felt intimidated but hey he's the head coach of the Arizona Cardinals.

He spoke with me some and even insisted that I take a photo with him. It was right before the second round of the Draft so I didn't want to bother him but he would have non of that. Other than attending the Super Bowl, it was really the highlight of my Cardinal fandom.

I think some here mistake his confidence for arrogance.

 

[BigRedRage]

I had the opportunity to meet and speak with Whiz in person. He was really nice in person but at the same time carried himself with an air of confidence. I felt intimidated but hey he's the head coach of the Arizona Cardinals.

He spoke with me some and even insisted that I take a photo with him. It was right before the second round of the Draft so I didn't want to bother him but he would have non of that. Other than attending the Super Bowl, it was really the highlight of my Cardinal fandom.

I think some here mistake his confidence for arrogance.

most everyone does - day to day - ive been called arrogant quite a few times and im far from that. Confident? yes.

 

[MadCardDisease]

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=6829997

Cowherd doesn't look like what I expected. Voice doesn't match the face IMO.

 

[BigRedRage]

Cowherd doesn't look like what I expected. Voice doesn't match the face IMO.

thats funny I thought that when I first saw him a year ago too. He sounds like more of a dan patrick, older guy type.

 

[kerouac9]

That might be the case, but he went about 6 years straight with VERY high level of QB play under him either as OC or a hands on HC. I think he believes his system is QB friendly and am quite sure he takes alot of personal satisfaction of how both Big Ben and Warner played under him.

Lord knows I have made that argument for himso its a pretty sure bet he felt the same way.

So I think he thought he could take a guy like DA with a big arm or a guy with "moxie" like Max Hall and make them at least decent in his offense.

He was dead wrong but I understand that confidence. Like I said the production prior to 2011 backed that up. But we learned its not ALL the coaching and in fact you do need the players. I think he learned that too, which is why he went hard after Kolb.

Warner I'll agree with you on to an extent. It was pretty clear that Hayley was running the offense during the Super Bowl run--although I'm sure you'll dispute that--and that Warner was running his own offense that Whis kind of adopted once Warner left.

But Roethlisberger was playing with handcuffs on the two years he teamed with Whis in Pittsburgh--most rushing attempts in the NFL by no small margin. It wasn't until Whis left Pittsburgh that Roethlisberger shed his image as a Mark Sanchez-type gamer and became one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL.

 

[BigRedRage]

Warner I'll agree with you on to an extent. It was pretty clear that Hayley was running the offense during the Super Bowl run--although I'm sure you'll dispute that--and that Warner was running his own offense that Whis kind of adopted once Warner left.

But Roethlisberger was playing with handcuffs on the two years he teamed with Whis in Pittsburgh--most rushing attempts in the NFL by no small margin. It wasn't until Whis left Pittsburgh that Roethlisberger shed his image as a Mark Sanchez-type gamer and became one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL.

Top? eh...top 25 maybe. not top ten.

 

[kerouac9]

Top? eh...top 25 maybe. not top ten.

Roethlisberger isn't among the top 10 quarterbacks in the NFL? Um, I guess, buddy. You can argue about the order of the top tier of quarterbacks in the NFL, but you can't argue that the 6 best quarterbacks in the NFL aren't P. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Roethlisberger, and Aaron Rodgers.

Next tier is E. Manning, M. Sanchez, J. Flacco, M. Ryan, Vick, and Schaub.

Everyone else is below those guys for the time being. I would say the next guys on the rise are Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, and maybe Kevin Kolb.

 

[MadCardDisease]

thats funny I thought that when I first saw him a year ago too. He sounds like more of a dan patrick, older guy type.

Yep, I was picturing a much older guy.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=6829997


Heres the link

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Roethlisberger isn't among the top 10 quarterbacks in the NFL? Um, I guess, buddy. You can argue about the order of the top tier of quarterbacks in the NFL, but you can't argue that the 6 best quarterbacks in the NFL aren't P. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Roethlisberger, and Aaron Rodgers.

Next tier is E. Manning, M. Sanchez, J. Flacco, M. Ryan, Vick, and Schaub.

Everyone else is below those guys for the time being. I would say the next guys on the rise are Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, and maybe Kevin Kolb.

Agree with all of the above.

I dont think Wiz gets enough credit for getting Warner to hold onto the ball and quit throwing bushels of INTs and we really cant break it down because none of us know who helped more. It was likely a combination of the two - but then who hired Haley in the first place? I will say that after Haley left, Warner had a brilliant year in 2009 and maybe the best playoff game of all time WITHOUT Haley. It would be a silly argument to credit Haley up until he left, and then once he left it was ALL Warner and Wiz played no part.

As for Pitt...... Well they went 15-1 and won a Super Bowl in his FIRST TWO YEARS as an OC so if you dont want to credit him for that and for the role Ben played in that as a rookie and 2nd year player.....well I dont know what to say. I think its a pretty safe bet that had Wiz let him sling it they wouldnt have had that type of team success. And its not like Ben is all of a sudden Aaron Rodgers, his numbers have gone up but thats also a product of a MUCH worse running game and better WR options 1-5.

Really this is just a silly argument. I am not trying to give Wiz all the credit but you seem to not want to give him ANY credit.

As always the answer lies somewhere in between.

 

[BigRedRage]

Roethlisberger isn't among the top 10 quarterbacks in the NFL? Um, I guess, buddy. You can argue about the order of the top tier of quarterbacks in the NFL, but you can't argue that the 6 best quarterbacks in the NFL aren't P. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Roethlisberger, and Aaron Rodgers.

Next tier is E. Manning, M. Sanchez, J. Flacco, M. Ryan, Vick, and Schaub.

Everyone else is below those guys for the time being. I would say the next guys on the rise are Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, and maybe Kevin Kolb.

Sure I can. First of all Ben is the worst of the six you mentiond. Beyond that, id take vick and manning over him too. I could likely think of more but i dont have a list of starting QBs in front of me.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Sure I can. First of all Ben is the worst of the six you mentiond. Beyond that, id take vick and manning over him too. I could likely think of more but i dont have a list of starting QBs in front of me.

You'd take Eli Manning over Ben R? Really?

Come on, I hate Roth, but he is a top 6 QB in the NFL.

 

[BigRedRage]

I dont have anything against the guy personally i Just dont think hes all that great. I think his team makes him.

I also never watch NYG or PITT so maybe I know nothing.

 

[kerouac9]

I dont have anything against the guy personally i Just dont think hes all that great. I think his team makes him.

I also never watch NYG or PITT so maybe I know nothing.

Clearly. Obviously there are tons of average QBs who win 2 Super Bowls in four years and lead his team to three in 6 is a chump.

 

[kerouac9]

Agree with all of the above.

I dont think Wiz gets enough credit for getting Warner to hold onto the ball and quit throwing bushels of INTs and we really cant break it down because none of us know who helped more. It was likely a combination of the two - but then who hired Haley in the first place? I will say that after Haley left, Warner had a brilliant year in 2009 and maybe the best playoff game of all time WITHOUT Haley. It would be a silly argument to credit Haley up until he left, and then once he left it was ALL Warner and Wiz played no part.

As for Pitt...... Well they went 15-1 and won a Super Bowl in his FIRST TWO YEARS as an OC so if you dont want to credit him for that and for the role Ben played in that as a rookie and 2nd year player.....well I dont know what to say. I think its a pretty safe bet that had Wiz let him sling it they wouldnt have had that type of team success. And its not like Ben is all of a sudden Aaron Rodgers, his numbers have gone up but thats also a product of a MUCH worse running game and better WR options 1-5.

Really this is just a silly argument. I am not trying to give Wiz all the credit but you seem to not want to give him ANY credit.

As always the answer lies somewhere in between.

I have no problem saying that it was the Pittsburgh system as operated by Whis that lead to those Steeler performances, and that Roethlisberger was a secondary or tertiary reason. But you're saying that Whis coaxed excellent QB play those first two years when that clearly wasn't the case.

That first year in Pittsburgh I think that Ben's targets were Plaxico Burress, Hines Ward, and Antwaan Randle-El. Hardly chumps. The year Ben won his first Super Bowl was Ward, Randle-El, and Heath Miller. The next year they added Santonio Holmes.

I give Whis credit for bringing Roethlisberger along, but he's clearly not a QB guru who knows how to get the most out of his guys, either with Warner, Roethlisberger, or Anderson, etc., etc.

 

[BigRedRage]

Clearly. Obviously there are tons of average QBs who win 2 Super Bowls in four years and lead his team to three in 6 is a chump.

He has a fantastic TEAM

His first super bowl they ran like 70% of the plays right? I guess since dilfer went to a superbowl he was elite too.

 

[Longcolts]

After Pit went 3-1 without Roth last year I really wonder just how bad they need him to be great.

 

[kerouac9]

He has a fantastic TEAM

His first super bowl they ran like 70% of the plays right? I guess since dilfer went to a superbowl he was elite too.

They ran about 60% of the time. That season was also 6 years ago. And he's won another Super Bowl and gone to another one since then. I think he has as many Super Bowl rings as Drew Brees and Peyton Manning combined.

But I'm sure Trent Dilfer does, too. Good comparison by someone who doesn't watch the Steelers.

 

[BigRedRage]

They ran about 60% of the time. That season was also 6 years ago. And he's won another Super Bowl and gone to another one since then. I think he has as many Super Bowl rings as Drew Brees and Peyton Manning combined.

But I'm sure Trent Dilfer does, too. Good comparison by someone who doesn't watch the Steelers.

Steelers were sick before ben and will be after ben. The guy may have turned out good but if you put him on the lions im sure he would have 0 super bowls. Brady has way more superbowls than manning but I think Manning is the better QB. Manning runs his entire offense by himself and is THE cog of the team. But with your argument, manning holds no candle to rothlesburger. I dont buy it.

Either way, ill agree to disagree.

And I understand your passion for it since you hate the cardinals.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I have no problem saying that it was the Pittsburgh system as operated by Whis that lead to those Steeler performances, and that Roethlisberger was a secondary or tertiary reason. But you're saying that Whis coaxed excellent QB play those first two years when that clearly wasn't the case.

That first year in Pittsburgh I think that Ben's targets were Plaxico Burress, Hines Ward, and Antwaan Randle-El. Hardly chumps. The year Ben won his first Super Bowl was Ward, Randle-El, and Heath Miller. The next year they added Santonio Holmes.

I give Whis credit for bringing Roethlisberger along, but he's clearly not a QB guru who knows how to get the most out of his guys, either with Warner, Roethlisberger, or Anderson, etc., etc.

Cmon K9. Getting a rookie to play like that over his first two seasons IS coaxing great QB play. It doesnt just come down to numbers.

I would make the case the Steelers are worse off letting Ben chuck it around the field. Sure they got to 2 Super Bowls in that time, but last year he tried to out gun Aaron Rodgers and that didnt work out very well.

And in the 2008 Super Bowl, if not for that freaking Defensive TD, it wouldnt have worked so well against the Cards either. Thier regular seasons have been no where near as successful, and because they werent too dependent on Ben in 2005, they were able to beat Seattle even though he s--- the bed in that game.

Again Ben has better numbers but thats at least partially because they cant run the ball dominantly anymore and yes they had good WR's but not the emabarssement of riches they have had since Wiz left too.

And alot of what Ben is today is at least partially responsible for his first two year working under Wi'zs guidance. To suggest otherwise is foolhardy.

 

[CardEd]

Oh Jesus are we screwed...

He is also an engineer, dont forget that

He didn't say he was a politician