Whiz to DC?

[oaken1]

I'm sure it is because the NFL is sooooo dumb that Whis is one of the most coveted candidates out there this offseason and even got several interviews last offseason. He ain't perfect, but with a good quarterback in place and with the support of a decent front office he can win the National Football League. That shouldn't be in dispute, despite his last three years in Arizona.

I think he WOULD be successful in Detroit. I am dubious if he'd be successful in Washington or Tennessee because Washington lacks the front office and Tennessee lacks the quarterback.

the titans are in position to get a qb in the draft this year aren't they??...that might be a good fit for wiz.....wash on the other hand,...lol....would love to see wiz with access to snyders bank account.....

 

[PACardsFan]

Tom Flores won two Superbowls with a backup QB that could barely stay on anyone elses roster

Entirely different league when Flores was around. You could win without a great QB then. I also think you're shortchanging Plunkett. I believe he was the 1st pick in the draft when he came out. He struggled with the Patriots, but had some great years with the Raiders.

 

[PACardsFan]

He is a HUGE Whiz supporter, and begrudgingly has accepted the new coaching staff, even though they matched Whiz's highest win total in their first year on the job.

Whiz did a fantastic job of changing the culture in Arizona, and then did an even better job showing he is a good coordinator, decent head coach, and a HORRIBLE evaluator of talent, and coaching skills.

Whiz's last few years in Arizona where very bad, and his firing was the right thing to do because he deserved it. His handling of the QB situation last year was horrendous, and his drafts were even worse. Whiz's 1st few seasons where he didn't have that much power on personnel decisions where his best, and the more power can control he got, the worse the team got.

So, I respect the Whiz supporters' opinion, just don't agree with it. Furthermore, I don't think Whiz will be the best coach this organization has ever had or will have in Arizona, and I am pretty sure I won't miss him 4 years from now.

I don't apologize for being a huge supporter of Whiz & I respect your opinion above. I'm not sure how he could be a good OC & a decent HC, yet be a HORRIBLE talent evaluator with HORRIBLE coaching skills. That just doesn't compute. Whiz ran into the perfect storm with Warner's retirement, a horrible front office, and untimely injuries. We can disagree until we're blue in the face. Let's just wait it out and see. His accomplishments don't lie. No one on this board may live long enough to see another Cardinal HC duplicate what he did.

 

[PACardsFan]

Geez thats pessimistic...I might as well stop rooting for the team if that's the case

Sometimes the truth is painful my friend. I've followed this team since 1963, so forgive me if I support a guy that made the pain of 50 years of crap go away, even if for just a few years. With the exception of a few years, I watched this organization roll out garbage year after year. Other than Whiz, I only saw one other Cardinal HC win a playoff game. Whiz ran into the perfect storm of Warner retiring & having a HORRIBLE front office. Look, I really like BA. He went to to the same high school my kids are in. I also like Keim, as he's also from the area in PA that I live. Even if he's successful here, he will be hard pressed to match what Whiz did.

 

[oaken1]

Entirely different league when Flores was around. You could win without a great QB then. I also think you're shortchanging Plunkett. I believe he was the 1st pick in the draft when he came out. He struggled with the Patriots, but had some great years with the Raiders.

Plunkett was the #1 overall pick...had a great rookie year for the Pats,...then started tossing picks and spent a few years on the pine....san fran traded the farm for him,...and he rode the pine there until he was released...Oakland picked him up as a backup for pastorini? was it...dude got hurt and the following season they went to the SB...then Jim went back to the bench a year or so later...starter got hurt,...and the wiley vet took them to the SB again....

first minority QB to win a SB...be named a SB MVP....and with Flores, the first minority HC-QB combination to ever win a SB........Plunkett is also on the short list of players to win college national championship, Heisman, and Super Bowl...


but was still considered a bum in NFL circles until he got to Oakland.............. a good coach can change a QB's career

 

[GuernseyCard]

Kurt Warner said some interesting things in his radio interview today. Pretty sure it was KTAR.

First of he said he thinks Whis is a "really good coach." He defended him and said he kinda got a raw deal here in AZ. Wasn't being really critical of the Cards, more just pointing out a series of bad circumstances more than anything.

But then they proceeded to talk about the 08 Super Bowl team and Kurt said he thinks this years team was WAY better "no question" better than the 08 team. He talked about how flawed that team was and how they took weeks off and after they won the division they got blown out a couple times cuz guys were not ready to play; "I kept telling em, you guys we are not going anywhere if play like this."

I also remember Kurt saying something similar to this at the Big Red Rage that year. Calvisi asked him something like how it felt to do "what you've done." this season after clinching the divison and warner got really animated and said "What have we done? We haven't done ANYTHING yet!" and he just kinda laughed that people seemed to be satisfied with making the playoffs.

Back to todays interview; He also said the reason they were able to make that run "we weren't a really good team but we had special players who made special plays in the playoffs." Singled out Dansby, Larry, DRC, Antrel and himself.

Interesting stuff. Kurt defended Whiz, but then went on to talk about that team not being focused (which I guess leads to another discussion about how much the coaches are to blame for this or if it's the Team Leaders) and then Kurt brought up "Special players making plays." Which kinda gives all the credit to the players making plays regardless of the scheme or the gameplan or the talent of the team as a whole.

After a lot of thought I have decided that I believe Whis is a good coach but he is stubborn. He's going to do it his way, he has a system and he believes it works. When everyone buys in and the talent is there, his system does work. But not obviously not everyone buys in all the time and they stop responding to his preaching the system and none of it works.

I think if he can find a way to either adapt to players or somehow assemble an entire team of guys who buy in (atleast most of the time like in 08), he can be successful again as a head coach in the NFL. I wish him the best and I hope he doesn't go to Detroit.

Whiz's system, and they are using his playbook in SD, has been a continuous adjustment to the opposition led by a competent Qb.

 

[D-Dogg]

After a lot of thought I have decided that I believe Whis is a good coach but he is stubborn. He's going to do it his way, he has a system and he believes it works. When everyone buys in and the talent is there, his system does work. But not obviously not everyone buys in all the time and they stop responding to his preaching the system and none of it works.

Whis in a nutshell. And before someone chimes in with "and also every head coach ever" I want to say that with Whis in particular, this is very dramatically seen, and his stubborn streak is amplified when the success isn't there. In regards to the "great coach" theory (take his & beat yours, then take yours and beat his) I have no doubts that when Whis has who he really wants in place to run his system, that yes it will work and it will beat yours, but he is fairly unable to beat his with yours. I think Washington is an absolute cluster for a Whis-type team, and RGIII is about as far from a Whis QB as you can get. Stafford is much more in the mold. However, his best bet is to stay with SD and run their offense rather than try to be a HC/OC again. He's a far better OC than HC, IMO, especially when he can really focus on it. He's a damn decent HC, and a very good OC.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I don't apologize for being a huge supporter of Whiz & I respect your opinion above. I'm not sure how he could be a good OC & a decent HC, yet be a HORRIBLE talent evaluator with HORRIBLE coaching skills. That just doesn't compute. Whiz ran into the perfect storm with Warner's retirement, a horrible front office, and untimely injuries. We can disagree until we're blue in the face. Let's just wait it out and see. His accomplishments don't lie. No one on this board may live long enough to see another Cardinal HC duplicate what he did.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Plunkett was the #1 overall pick...had a great rookie year for the Pats,...then started tossing picks and spent a few years on the pine....san fran traded the farm for him,...and he rode the pine there until he was released...Oakland picked him up as a backup for pastorini? was it...dude got hurt and the following season they went to the SB...then Jim went back to the bench a year or so later...starter got hurt,...and the wiley vet took them to the SB again....

first minority QB to win a SB...be named a SB MVP....and with Flores, the first minority HC-QB combination to ever win a SB........Plunkett is also on the short list of players to win college national championship, Heisman, and Super Bowl...


but was still considered a bum in NFL circles until he got to Oakland.............. a good coach can change a QB's career

Yet, like PA said, it was a different time.

A good coach can change a QB's career, a different team with a different system can change a QB's career as well.

One of the worst moves I have ever seen personnel wise was, the Ravens getting rid of Dilfer after he won the Super Bowl. Why ? Right QB for the right team.

Plunkett was the same way, IMO. Once he got to the Raiders, he was what they needed to get to the Super Bowl. Especially at that time in the league where it was more of a team game.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Whis in a nutshell. And before someone chimes in with "and also every head coach ever" I want to say that with Whis in particular, this is very dramatically seen, and his stubborn streak is amplified when the success isn't there. In regards to the "great coach" theory (take his & beat yours, then take yours and beat his) I have no doubts that when Whis has who he really wants in place to run his system, that yes it will work and it will beat yours, but he is fairly unable to beat his with yours. I think Washington is an absolute cluster for a Whis-type team, and RGIII is about as far from a Whis QB as you can get. Stafford is much more in the mold. However, his best bet is to stay with SD and run their offense rather than try to be a HC/OC again. He's a far better OC than HC, IMO, especially when he can really focus on it. He's a damn decent HC, and a very good OC.

Very well put.

That is about how I see it also.

 

[Shane]

Tom Flores won two Superbowls with a backup QB that could barely stay on anyone elses roster

Holy crap you had to go really at back to pull that out.... Not to mention Plunkett was a good QB at that point in his career.

 

[Bert]

Whis in a nutshell. And before someone chimes in with "and also every head coach ever" I want to say that with Whis in particular, this is very dramatically seen, and his stubborn streak is amplified when the success isn't there. In regards to the "great coach" theory (take his & beat yours, then take yours and beat his) I have no doubts that when Whis has who he really wants in place to run his system, that yes it will work and it will beat yours, but he is fairly unable to beat his with yours. I think Washington is an absolute cluster for a Whis-type team, and RGIII is about as far from a Whis QB as you can get. Stafford is much more in the mold. However, his best bet is to stay with SD and run their offense rather than try to be a HC/OC again. He's a far better OC than HC, IMO, especially when he can really focus on it. He's a damn decent HC, and a very good OC.

Yeah seriously, if Whiz couldn't get along with The Leenart, imagine him with RGIII when times get tough...

 

[GuernseyCard]

Yeah seriously, if Whiz couldn't get along with The Leenart, imagine him with RGIII when times get tough...

Whis is bright enough to not get involved with team where the Qb is allowed to complain to the ultimate boss.

 

[oaken1]

Holy crap you had to go really at back to pull that out.... Not to mention Plunkett was a good QB at that point in his career.

well no, he wasn't.....after two poor years with the niners he was cut in preseason in 78....this being a guy they traded three firsts and a second to New England to acquire,...he was so bad they dumped him in pre season....he was the niners version of Kevin Kolb,lol...

he then rode the pine in Oakland for two full seasons and only got the starting job mid season 1980 because of an injury to the starter...

Plunkett had all the measurable but was never able to put it all together on the field until he got with Flores.

 

[Duckjake]

Back to todays interview; He also said the reason they were able to make that run "we weren't a really good team but we had special players who made special plays in the playoffs." Singled out Dansby, Larry, DRC, Antrel and himself.

I'd have to question Warner's memory. 2008-09 the team was loaded with talent. Even Antonio Smith the DE in '08 has made a pro bowl.

In addition to Smith they had Berry, Boldin, Fitz, EJames, Warner, Rolle, DRC, Okeafor, Dockett, Wilson, Campbell, Sean Morey, and of course Money Mike Adams.

We all know what happened to Whisenhunt. Lost most of the talent after 2009 and then the organization made one of the worst moves in NFL history in trading DRC and a 2nd round pick for Kevin Kolb. But it finally rid us of Rod Graves and Russ Grimm so it wasn't all bad.

Sort of like how Rackers missing that FG vs the Bears got us to the Super Bowl. He makes that kick and there's no famous Denny Green press conference, Denny doesn't get fired and .......

 

[crisper57]

All those great names were offset by the suckage that was Aaron Francisco.