Who’s that bigger receiver...

[BritCard]

When they're all measured at the same event the same way I assume they're at least uniform, it's the small difference that makes it laughable to me. If Jeudy's wingspan was 4-6 inches shorter than Lamb yeah maybe you have something, but 5/8" of an inch is pretty silly to then call him a loser for his measurables.

I know at the combine they have to do stuff like this it's the whole point of the combine but it always cracks me up.

Like Twitter going off on Burrows for his 9" hands

 

[BritCard]

Okay, don’t be shocked but I get what Solar is saying about wr’s. Many times the 3rd receiver benefits because of the other two receivers on the team. When you take a wr3 and force him into a #1 role you create a problem.

However, I love Fitz but he is not a #1 anymore. Neither is Kirk. I think Fitz would be the biggest benefactor if we had that #1 wr. If we KNEW Butler was going to be that big target outside guy , great.

okay that’s enough agreeing with Solar. Even if Butler was to blossom I don’t see him as a true #1 wr. I don’t care if we drafted 8 wr’s in the last two years we do not have a true #1 wr. We have Byrd, Cooper, Issabella, Johnson, Kirk and others that are all to similar and will NEVER be a #1 wr.

The surest way to lock up a true #1 wr is in this draft. This offense will move in to a whole other dimension with a guy like Lamb or Juedy. Kirk would benefit. Fitz would benefit. Our te’s would benefit. KYLER would benefit. Suddenly Fitz is being covered by a nickel cb. Kirk would be going against a #2 cb.

Currently there is no Wr on this team that strikes fear into our opponents heart. None. Nada. We have wr’s that can make plays or a clutch catch but not a #1 that EVERY good offense has. What happens if Fitz sprains an ankle? What if Butler never becomes the guy we hope for?

Lamb and Juedy are a plug in #1 wr. I don’t believe either of these guys will set the nfl on its collective ears in year one. Rookies seldom do. But their presence will help this offense overall immediately. Even more so in the following year(s) if they turn out to be a Thomas or Hopkins.

If the Cards can trade down and still secure a #1 wr that would be great. Could Higgins, Ruggs or Shenault be a true #1?

So bottom line is we NEED a bonifide, true #1 wr maybe as much as any other hole on this team. Yes the Cards will have to pass on some pretty good players to draft Juedy or Lamb. But consider you may be passing on a potential Hopkins or Thomas is a little scary too.

Whether you agree or not, with the #8 pick in the 2020 NFL draft, the Arizona Cardinals select Oklahoma wr, CeeDee Lamb.

Firstly, someone tell Slanidrac that Solar hacked his account.

Secondly, I understand what you are saying, but I don't know how much we can really know about our WR group, and I mean that literally, I personally don't know what we have. I don't think anyone can.

The reason I say that is this. In 2017 Larry had 1156 yards. That then fell off a cliff in 2018 in the "offense of doom" and recovered a little last year in an offense that had a rookie coach and rookie QB.

I don't think you can definitively say Larry is cooked. I don't see any difference in him physically between 17 and 19, but there are other factors in play that are limiting his production. Bad coaching, new schemes, some dubious usage, and the fact his draws a bunch of double teams. I still think Larry has juice in him to have 1000+ yards and 8 TD's.

This is a big year for Kirk. Through his first 16 starts his stats were on par with Fitz first 16, but Kirk hasn't kicked on like Fitz did. It's a big year for him. He could have had a couple of 1000 yard seasons if not for injuries and some ugly drops.

I'd like to see how this room grows this year. With Butler coming back and if Isabella can kick on it could be a good group. But I'd like the see the O line vastly improved so Kyler has the time to take advantage of his deep ball accuracy. We were too one dimensional for large parts of last year with too many quick, short passes.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

He is better. I don't understand how anyone can have Lamb #1. Jeudy is clearly the better receiver.

Jeudy put up those numbers against mainly SEC defenses. Lamb did it against Big 12 defenses, enough said there lol. I would rather have Jeudy but Lamb is a good player & it won't break my heart if we draft him. He's familiar with KM & this offense.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Firstly, someone tell Slanidrac that Solar hacked his account.

Secondly, I understand what you are saying, but I don't know how much we can really know about our WR group, and I mean that literally, I personally don't know what we have. I don't think anyone can.

The reason I say that is this. In 2017 Larry had 1156 yards. That then fell off a cliff in 2018 in the "offense of doom" and recovered a little last year in an offense that had a rookie coach and rookie QB.

I don't think you can definitively say Larry is cooked. I don't see any difference in him physically between 17 and 19, but there are other factors in play that are limiting his production. Bad coaching, new schemes, some dubious usage, and the fact his draws a bunch of double teams. I still think Larry has juice in him to have 1000+ yards and 8 TD's.

This is a big year for Kirk. Through his first 16 starts his stats were on par with Fitz first 16, but Kirk hasn't kicked on like Fitz did. It's a big year for him. He could have had a couple of 1000 yard seasons if not for injuries and some ugly drops.

I'd like to see how this room grows this year. With Butler coming back and if Isabella can kick on it could be a good group. But I'd like the see the O line vastly improved so Kyler has the time to take advantage of his deep ball accuracy. We were too one dimensional for large parts of last year with too many quick, short passes.

It's a crap shoot bro, roll the dice on a player & see what happens. Keim has sucked at it most yrs. The WR's he drafted last season sounded good at the time, for several reasons they didn't work out. We still don't know what we have there yet. Doesn't mean we should just stop drafting WR's though but I get what you're saying. It just may be that a Jeudy or Lamb is the missing link to make this offense take off? Fact is we have so many holes & need the OL & DL fixed, DL more so than anything imo. Fix those first through FA & we could draft a WR at #8. I get what you're saying, I've thought about it also. Go OL at #8 (protect KM) & there's still value for a #1 WR in the 2nd round. We're all just fans making guesses as to what should & shouldn't happen, some of our wishes at pick #8 may change after FA?

 

[juza76]

Mmm sometimes is not better to use the conditional tense?
Are just prospects, a bit of humility?
Is easy to note when a user just come from another forum

 

[slanidrac16]

Firstly, someone tell Slanidrac that Solar hacked his account.

Secondly, I understand what you are saying, but I don't know how much we can really know about our WR group, and I mean that literally, I personally don't know what we have. I don't think anyone can.

The reason I say that is this. In 2017 Larry had 1156 yards. That then fell off a cliff in 2018 in the "offense of doom" and recovered a little last year in an offense that had a rookie coach and rookie QB.

I don't think you can definitively say Larry is cooked. I don't see any difference in him physically between 17 and 19, but there are other factors in play that are limiting his production. Bad coaching, new schemes, some dubious usage, and the fact his draws a bunch of double teams. I still think Larry has juice in him to have 1000+ yards and 8 TD's.

This is a big year for Kirk. Through his first 16 starts his stats were on par with Fitz first 16, but Kirk hasn't kicked on like Fitz did. It's a big year for him. He could have had a couple of 1000 yard seasons if not for injuries and some ugly drops.

I'd like to see how this room grows this year. With Butler coming back and if Isabella can kick on it could be a good group. But I'd like the see the O line vastly improved so Kyler has the time to take advantage of his deep ball accuracy. We were too one dimensional for large parts of last year with too many quick, short passes.

I’m sure the coaching staff has an idea of what we have. I think Larry still has gas in the tank. Can you imagine what he could do if defense couldn’t afford to double cover him?

I’m not writing off Issabella or Butler. I just don’t see him being a #1 wr. Butler looks more like a red zone mismatch but I think he is a big key to this.

I just think Lamb is going to be our guy. Maybe the right way to go is Wills or Wirfs and grab a wr in round two. However, it appears guys like Higgins, Ruggs and Shenault will be long gone. Can Jefferson or Pittman be a #1?
Maybe we grab Lamb and a guy like Josh Jones in the second.

Maybe we grab Wirfs or Wills and then trade up to grab a top Wr. It is shaping up for an opportunity to trade down.

 

[GatorAZ]

Jeudy put up those numbers against mainly SEC defenses. Lamb did it against Big 12 defenses, enough said there lol. I would rather have Jeudy but Lamb is a good player & it won't break my heart if we draft him. He's familiar with KM & this offense.

Same. I don’t want Lamb at 8 but wouldn’t hate it. I think he’ll be productive but I don’t see the Hopkins-esque upside vs pro DB’s.

 

[Solar7]

I have no huge problems with taking Lamb or Jeudy at #8, and I totally understand everyone's arguments. There's still the issue that 1st round WRs haven't been very good the past few years, and I'm not liking the concept of a terribly inexperienced rookie WR corps that we can't replace.

A part of me likes the concept of either going with a round 2 WR, or waiting until next year and throwing money at a proven guy if our current crop doesn't emerge.

 

[juza76]

I have no huge problems with taking Lamb or Jeudy at #8, and I totally understand everyone's arguments. There's still the issue that 1st round WRs haven't been very good the past few years, and I'm not liking the concept of a terribly inexperienced rookie WR corps that we can't replace.

A part of me likes the concept of either going with a round 2 WR, or waiting until next year and throwing money at a proven guy if our current crop doesn't emerge.

We must find starters in those positions
Dt
De
Ilb
Rt
WR
I expect the first 3 being upgraded through free agency

RT and WR in the first 2 rounds, lamb-jeury /biadasz-Jones
Wills/ Reagor-Ruggs-higgins

Then a pass rusher in round 3

 

[DVontel]

We must find starters in those positions
Dt
De
Ilb
Rt
WR
I expect the first 3 being upgraded through free agency

RT and WR in the first 2 rounds, lamb-jeury /biadasz-Jones
Wills/ Reagor-Ruggs-higgins

Then a pass rusher in round 3

lol, man Ruggs ain’t falling to no round 2. He might not even make it to the 20s.

 

[SoonerLou]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Hopefully Kliff has figured out Isabella is an outside wr.

 

[juza76]

lol, man Ruggs ain’t falling to no round 2. He might not even make it to the 20s.

Surprises can happen
Then for Reagor or Ruggs can be worth trade up

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Hopefully Kliff has figured out Isabella is an outside wr.

Next year maybe he ll figure out he is not a nfl player

 

[Reddog]

YES! I'm a Baylor grad so I have watched him for 4 years. He makes clutch plays and has all of the measurables any team would want. He is fast but they haven't timed him yet. Below are his some of his other numbers:

Height: 6-2 7/8
Weight: 207
Hand: 9 3/8
Arm: 33 7/8
Wingspan: 78 4/8

His Vertical Jump at Baylor was 42

 

[Solar7]

We must find starters in those positions
Dt
De
Ilb
Rt
WR
I expect the first 3 being upgraded through free agency

RT and WR in the first 2 rounds, lamb-jeury /biadasz-Jones
Wills/ Reagor-Ruggs-higgins

Then a pass rusher in round 3

Yep, this has been what I've been all for all offseason so far. Like it.

 

[BritCard]

I’m sure the coaching staff has an idea of what we have. I think Larry still has gas in the tank. Can you imagine what he could do if defense couldn’t afford to double cover him?

I’m not writing off Issabella or Butler. I just don’t see him being a #1 wr. Butler looks more like a red zone mismatch but I think he is a big key to this.

I just think Lamb is going to be our guy. Maybe the right way to go is Wills or Wirfs and grab a wr in round two. However, it appears guys like Higgins, Ruggs and Shenault will be long gone. Can Jefferson or Pittman be a #1?
Maybe we grab Lamb and a guy like Josh Jones in the second.

Maybe we grab Wirfs or Wills and then trade up to grab a top Wr. It is shaping up for an opportunity to trade down.

After seeing the various combine interviews today I'm convinced it's CeeDee.

We don't seem to have a misinformation game.

 

[DVontel]

Surprises can happen
Then for Reagor or Ruggs can be worth trade up


Next year maybe he ll figure out he is not a nfl player

They can, but unless there’s medical problems, Ruggs will be the 3rd WR off the board(could be earlier) so that would be a major trade up. Reagor will most likely kill the combine so I doubt it he’ll fall to us, too. Justin Jefferson is who we should be looking at.

 

[juza76]

His Vertical Jump at Baylor was 42

Kind of wondering what Reagor will do in the vertical jump
Despite being just 5'11 he easily jump over defensive backs

 

[daves]

I still think Larry has juice in him to have 1000+ yards and 8 TD's.

I'd love to see it... but Larry's 10.7 yards per catch in 2019 was similar to his previous couple of years, and hasnt been higher since 2015 (11.1 in the Cardinals 13-3 season).

At 10.7 yards per catch, Larry would need 94 catches to break 1000 yards. His 68.8% catch rate in 2019 was actually well above his careeer 60.9% rate, and highest since 2016. If he could duplicate that, he'd need 137 targets to make 94 catches. Thats 28 more targets (26%) than in 2019... on an offense where presumably other young WRs step up and take on bigger roles or a high draft pick has been added to the mix (or both).

I just don't see it, unless somehow Larry's catch percentage hits a career high or his yards per catch drastically increases at age 37 - highly unlikely!

...dave

 

[BritCard]

I'd love to see it... but Larry's 10.7 yards per catch in 2019 was similar to his previous couple of years, and hasnt been higher since 2015 (11.1 in the Cardinals 13-3 season).

At 10.7 yards per catch, Larry would need 94 catches to break 1000 yards. His 68.8% catch rate in 2019 was actually well above his careeer 60.9% rate, and highest since 2016. If he could duplicate that, he'd need 137 targets to make 94 catches. Thats 28 more targets (26%) than in 2019... on an offense where presumably other young WRs step up and take on bigger roles or a high draft pick has been added to the mix (or both).

I just don't see it, unless somehow Larry's catch percentage hits a career high or his yards per catch drastically increases at age 37 - highly unlikely!

...dave

That's the crux of it. If he's to put up WR1 numbers he needs WR1 targets and he's not been getting them since BA left.

15, 16 and 17 he had 145, 150 and 161 targets.

The last 2 years he had 112 and 109.

 

[DVontel]

I’ll say this.


If we go Lamb at #8, no one else but Lucas Niang better be the pick at #41.

 

[Russ Smith]

I guess we'll see I kind of think Reagor will go ahead of Ruggs. Ruggs is faster, Reagor is a better football player. Reagor has a lot of DeSean Jackson which is ironically who teams compare Ruggs to. Reagor is a good kick returner, Ruggs really hasn't done much of it because he doesn't catch punts well.

hard to compare them totally different systems etc I just feel like Reagor will be the better player. Ruggs is awfully tempting he's just so fast.

interestingly from what I found, Reagor's reported 40 time from school combines is actually faster than Ruggs but I expect Ruggs to run faster at the combine if they both run.

 

[DVontel]

I guess we'll see I kind of think Reagor will go ahead of Ruggs. Ruggs is faster, Reagor is a better football player. Reagor has a lot of DeSean Jackson which is ironically who teams compare Ruggs to. Reagor is a good kick returner, Ruggs really hasn't done much of it because he doesn't catch punts well.

hard to compare them totally different systems etc I just feel like Reagor will be the better player. Ruggs is awfully tempting he's just so fast.

interestingly from what I found, Reagor's reported 40 time from school combines is actually faster than Ruggs but I expect Ruggs to run faster at the combine if they both run.

Reagor kind of does nothing better Ruggs.


Ruggs is a:

Better route runner

Better hands

Better catcher in traffic

Better blocker

Better frame

I think he’s faster with the ball in his hands than Reagor is.




Reagor is a bit twitchier, but that’s really it.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I want CeeDee Lamb at #8. He will be a number one WR which we don't have. He already has a connection with Kyler and can be a starter from day one. Cards can get some defensive help in free agency and a RT in round 2 or 3.

I'd be much better with Lamb or Jeudy at 12 vs 8. I'm Simmons or bust.

 

[Russ Smith]

Reagor kind of does nothing better Ruggs.


Ruggs is a:

Better route runner

Better hands

Better catcher in traffic

Better blocker

Better frame

I think he’s faster with the ball in his hands than Reagor is.




Reagor is a bit twitchier, but that’s really it.

I think Reagor is a better player but it's hard to tell from last year because TCU had a freshman QB who was a much better runner than passer and so they became a running team. They barely threw for over 2000 yards last year which is why Reagor's stats were down so much.

I'm not knocking Ruggs he is insanely fast, i read he averaged 9 yards after the catch this year, that's pretty ridiculous. But he's basically a guy who does 2 things well, those crossing patterns where he just outruns angles, or the balls upfield where he just outruns people. if you watch him against LSU or teams that have NFL type DB's, he struggles often, he can't get off the LOS clean, he just wasn't all that good against the kind of competition he'll see in the NFL. I would not be opposed to picking him later in the 1st round or if he somehow slipped, the 2nd, but I really am surprised people are projecting him as high as the 3rd receiver, I see him going to the Eagles as a very popular projection.

He caught 98 passes in a year college career, yes they had lots of weapons but I think his catches were low because he's just limited on what he can do right now as a WR. He was a pretty good KOR, not close to what you might think given the speed. Longest return of his career was 40, PR's 2 years in a row that was a thing in the spring they were going to use Ruggs as a return guy to take advantage of his speed, both years they abandoned it because he struggles to track the ball in the air, 8 punt returns in his career, longest was 16 yards.

Reagor had some issues on punt returns too, they put him there this year to get the ball in his hands more because the QB was so raw he was being wasted. He had 2 for TD's, one of them he dropped the punt, fumbled it around then picked it up and went house. I would assume NFL teams will see if he can return at the NFL level, TCU used him a bit on KOR but they didn't want him to get hurt so they limited them, I can see an NFL team using him more. He's more elusive, he is stronger with the ball despite being smaller than Ruggs. he too at times has trouble getting off the LOS and he's not a great route runner but IMO he can do more than Ruggs does in that regard.

Reagors stock is down because of a down junior year and concerns that he showed visible frustration this year and people said lost concentration. Understandable with a freshman QB who was just not very good, Reagor didn't get the ball enough.

Both guys are going to have big explosive plays, I just feel like Reagor is going to make more plays overall, Ruggs is faster but Reagor is going to put up a good 40 and probably a great vertical, he can really get up. He's got more wiggle, he is also incredible at acceleration, but both guys need to learn to run routes, both guys, especially Ruggs, waste lots of steps with their routes, that's actually one of the biggest knocks on both of them but from what I read and what I saw watching Ruggs at Alabama he's a guy who just outran people. Jerry Sullivan would help either one of them with the ability to run routes.

 

[juza76]

I think Reagor is a better player but it's hard to tell from last year because TCU had a freshman QB who was a much better runner than passer and so they became a running team. They barely threw for over 2000 yards last year which is why Reagor's stats were down so much.

I'm not knocking Ruggs he is insanely fast, i read he averaged 9 yards after the catch this year, that's pretty ridiculous. But he's basically a guy who does 2 things well, those crossing patterns where he just outruns angles, or the balls upfield where he just outruns people. if you watch him against LSU or teams that have NFL type DB's, he struggles often, he can't get off the LOS clean, he just wasn't all that good against the kind of competition he'll see in the NFL. I would not be opposed to picking him later in the 1st round or if he somehow slipped, the 2nd, but I really am surprised people are projecting him as high as the 3rd receiver, I see him going to the Eagles as a very popular projection.

He caught 98 passes in a year college career, yes they had lots of weapons but I think his catches were low because he's just limited on what he can do right now as a WR. He was a pretty good KOR, not close to what you might think given the speed. Longest return of his career was 40, PR's 2 years in a row that was a thing in the spring they were going to use Ruggs as a return guy to take advantage of his speed, both years they abandoned it because he struggles to track the ball in the air, 8 punt returns in his career, longest was 16 yards.

Reagor had some issues on punt returns too, they put him there this year to get the ball in his hands more because the QB was so raw he was being wasted. He had 2 for TD's, one of them he dropped the punt, fumbled it around then picked it up and went house. I would assume NFL teams will see if he can return at the NFL level, TCU used him a bit on KOR but they didn't want him to get hurt so they limited them, I can see an NFL team using him more. He's more elusive, he is stronger with the ball despite being smaller than Ruggs. he too at times has trouble getting off the LOS and he's not a great route runner but IMO he can do more than Ruggs does in that regard.

Reagors stock is down because of a down junior year and concerns that he showed visible frustration this year and people said lost concentration. Understandable with a freshman QB who was just not very good, Reagor didn't get the ball enough.

Both guys are going to have big explosive plays, I just feel like Reagor is going to make more plays overall, Ruggs is faster but Reagor is going to put up a good 40 and probably a great vertical, he can really get up. He's got more wiggle, he is also incredible at acceleration, but both guys need to learn to run routes, both guys, especially Ruggs, waste lots of steps with their routes, that's actually one of the biggest knocks on both of them but from what I read and what I saw watching Ruggs at Alabama he's a guy who just outran people. Jerry Sullivan would help either one of them with the ability to run routes.

Reagor smaller?

Reagor 5'10 5/8 weight 206 arm 31 3/8
Ruggs 5'11 weight 188 arm 30 4/8

Basically he has same height and almost 20 pounds heavier