Who do the Cardinals draft in the first round next year?

[CaptTurbo]

Antrel Rolle is the CB from Miami, and he is very good. As far as DTs, there are only three so far that appear to be possible first rounders that I can see so far and those are Anttaj Hawthorne from Wisconsin, .

oh and no Dlineman from Wisconsin

 

[Russ Smith]

From what I hear about Ngata, he is supposed to be more like a Ted Washington type of DT, just a huge immoveable run stopper. I will try to find some game tape of him last year and take a look to make sure. If I don't have one I will make sure to tape a game of him this year. Next years DT draft class is supposed to be a weak one.

You won't find any tape from last year because he was hurt. He's played this year but he's playing hurt. My understanding is like you say, huge, immovable, overweight, very good run stopper.

Wright is hurt too although I think he's playing.

 

[Snakester]

You won't find any tape from last year because he was hurt. He's played this year but he's playing hurt. My understanding is like you say, huge, immovable, overweight, very good run stopper.

Wright is hurt too although I think he's playing.

Thanks Russ, that just saved me some time. I will make sure that I tape at least one game of him playing this year to give some sort of honest opinion on the guy.

 

[AZCB34]

I didn't think I'd have to say this until January or February, but here foes anyway: that theory is a load of junk. Unless there's a huge talent that slips way past where he's supposed to go, all the kids from that are ranked similarly are just that--similar in talent. Then you need to look at what your team needs--team needs ALWAYS figure into who you think is the best talent available, IMO.

In the last draft was WR REALLY a need? I can think of alot more pressing needs that could have been addressed in round 1 than a WR.

Seriously, I really don't think position has anything to do with Green's draft approach. He will take the BPA on his board when the time comes. I disagree with that approach because I agree with you that need has to play a part but I think Green is bullheaded enough to choose another WR next year in round 1 if that player is the top guy on his board.

 

[Snakester]

oh and no Dlineman from Wisconsin

Hawthorne is not the same type of player Wendell Bryant was at Wisconsin. Bryant was more of a dancing bear type. Hawthorne is all about a bull rush. He has very good strength, just not speed. I would love to see us get him in the second round but I think he will be gone by then. Same with Wright. I don't see either of these guys going in the top ten. They are just not that talented.

 

[Russ Smith]

Bush is 6 foot 200 lbs and rock solid. He is plenty big.

But I dont think he will be an every down back either. What ever team picks him up in the 2006 or 2007 draft will use him at RB, WR, KR, and PR, he plays them all and plays them all well.

Bush is pretty special, per USC's site Bush has run a sub 10.4 100 meters. He averages 6.5 yards per carry so far this year and over 10 yards everytime he touches the ball. Even LenDale White the RB he splits time with says Bush is just special.

ESPN has good articles on Barber and maroney, Bush and WHite, and Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown on the colllege section of their site right now, check them out.

If I could draft players now to hold their rights for later it would be Adrian Peterson first, Bush second.

 

[Pariah]

In the last draft was WR REALLY a need? I can think of alot more pressing needs that could have been addressed in round 1 than a WR.

In Greens mind, I think WR was a need.

Let's put it this way, you can make a case for the guy you want as BPA. Was Fitz really the BPA last year? I don't think so. It was probably Sean Taylor. But, the case can be made (and was made by green) that Fitz was the guy because that's the guy he wanted. If Green had wanted Taylor, he could have made a case for him. Or, if he had wanted a QB he could have made a convincing case for Roethlisberger or Rivers. My point is just that there is no "BPA," there are other factors that go into it.

 

[Russ Smith]

In Greens mind, I think WR was a need.

Let's put it this way, you can make a case for the guy you want as BPA. Was Fitz really the BPA last year? I don't think so. It was probably Sean Taylor. But, the case can be made (and was made by green) that Fitz was the guy because that's the guy he wanted. If Green had wanted Taylor, he could have made a case for him. Or, if he had wanted a QB he could have made a convincing case for Roethlisberger or Rivers. My point is just that there is no "BPA," there are other factors that go into it.

Where is VF when you need him ?

He and I had that precise debate once, as soon as Green picks the guy it's not hard to then just say hey he's the BPA, that method still comes down to correctly identifying talent and THAT is what Green is really doing well, not this whole BPA philosophy.

 

[AZCB34]

Where is VF when you need him ?

He and I had that precise debate once, as soon as Green picks the guy it's not hard to then just say hey he's the BPA, that method still comes down to correctly identifying talent and THAT is what Green is really doing well, not this whole BPA philosophy.

But I think Green grades out the talent of the entire draft into a huge list of, say, 300 players and has them in a particular order then he chooses the top guy on HIS list when the time comes and doesn't give much thought to position because he thinks he is getting the best player right then. If Green really factored needs into his equation, would MIN's defense have been the general liability it was? No, but because he didn;t place the emphasis on filling needs with the BPA's, he left his team weak are critical positions.

So I disagree. Green is identifying talent and he chooses the best talent available regardless of position (he himself has said this many times although he says player instead of talent). All you are doing is tweaking the semantics.

 

[Russ Smith]

But I think Green grades out the talent of the entire draft into a huge list of, say, 300 players and has them in a particular order then he chooses the top guy on HIS list when the time comes and doesn't give much thought to position because he thinks he is getting the best player right then. If Green really factored needs into his equation, would MIN's defense have been the general liability it was? No, but because he didn;t place the emphasis on filling needs with the BPA's, he left his team weak are critical positions.

So I disagree. Green is identifying talent and he chooses the best talent available regardless of position (he himself has said this many times although he says player instead of talent). All you are doing is tweaking the semantics.

I think Green's list is not public and that if it were you'd find over the years that he doesn't just pick the next guy on the list always.

Green valued offense more than defense in Minnesota and that's why he took offensive players, he felt the need was there.

The 2 picks everyone cites as proof of his philosophy were Moss and Culpepper. Many had Moss rated as a top 5 player it had nothing to do with talent and everything to do with character, Green was simply the first guy willing to take that chance with Moss and where he took him, the risk was far less since the money was far less.

Culpepper I think Green did exactly what he says he does, took his highest rated guy even though he had Kearse sitting there, but I think he only did it because he knew he had another pick to get a DL with . In other words he absolutely DOES consider need when he picks, if he had only 1 first rounder that year he may not have taken Culpepper.

This year he said all along he had Fitz at the top of his list, but say Oakland had taken Fitz, you could make the argument for Gallery, Williams, Taylor, Winslow or Roethlisberger ALL being BPA and not be proven wrong.

In the end he is still going on gut reactions and personal opinions, he doesn't have some formula that tells him Fitz is the better player, it's his opinion, one he's shown over the years is often right.

 

[AZCB34]

About the only thing I will agree with is the fact that Green's board isn't seen thus none of us are right or wrong until we can actually see the board and how it plays out on draft day. Until then, nobody really knows.

 

[Pariah]

Until then, nobody really knows.

I know.

You all should listen to me more.

 

[Russ Smith]

About the only thing I will agree with is the fact that Green's board isn't seen thus none of us are right or wrong until we can actually see the board and how it plays out on draft day. Until then, nobody really knows.

Agreed, unless we can see the board we'll never know. Anyhow overall I'm quite happy with his draft, and given none of the high picks next year will be related to Green's good friends I'm not to worried about that happening again.

 

[Pariah]

given none of the high picks next year will be related to Green's good friends I'm not to worried about that happening again.

Maybe we ought to introduce Green to Mr. Rolle.

 

[Russ Smith]

Maybe we ought to introduce Green to Mr. Rolle.

Fitz should know him well after last year, maybe he can make the introductions?

I wouldn't be surprised if we pick both Rolle and Marlon Jackson, Green doesn't care about possible off field problems if you can play,and based on everything I read Jackson is falling because he's playing safety and is inconsistent.

 

[Russ Smith]

The other guy mentioned in this thread I could really see us taking is LB Derrick Johnson of Texas. In reading, the philosophy of Pendergast is all about speed on defense and he LOVES fast LB's.

Dansby has that speed, Hayes does, Thompson if he can stay healthy, but with Fisher cut we don't really have that speed in Darling or Woods. If Hayes pans out I could easily see us taking Johnson to replace Thompson next year if he's on the board. He's a bit light but a phenomenal athlete.

But Green likes to take RB's early it appears so I can see us doing that easily.

 

[HookemCards]

The other guy mentioned in this thread I could really see us taking is LB Derrick Johnson of Texas. In reading, the philosophy of Pendergast is all about speed on defense and he LOVES fast LB's.

Dansby has that speed, Hayes does, Thompson if he can stay healthy, but with Fisher cut we don't really have that speed in Darling or Woods. If Hayes pans out I could easily see us taking Johnson to replace Thompson next year if he's on the board. He's a bit light but a phenomenal athlete.

But Green likes to take RB's early it appears so I can see us doing that easily.

I'd be happy with Benson or Johnson in the first depending on where we are drafting. Johnson is a stud. His only real negative is he sometimes tries to deliver the big hit instead of wrapping up, but supposedly Greg Robinson and Dick Tomey have been stressing proper tackling alot more than the last DC. I'll keep an eye on it throughout the year. He can do it all, cover TEs and RBs, blitz (though they don't send as much as they did his FR and Soph yrs), and knife through the line to nail the RB for a loss. He led all LBs in Ints last year with 4.

I'd be mildly surprised if Wright came out this year. Most Longhorns don't leave school early. I guess Mack takes it so easy on them they don't want to go have to work hard in the NFL . He'd be a decent pick though I have no idea where he would be projected at this point, probably 10 to 20 range .

 

[DKCards]

Who's going to be available at #20 anyway?

 

[joeshmo]

If Green really factored needs into his equation, would MIN's defense have been the general liability it was? No, but because he didn;t place the emphasis on filling needs with the BPA's, he left his team weak are critical positions.

This statement is wrong. You make it sound as if Green neglected the Defense while in Minny. Green did factor into his equation that the D was a need while drafting in Minny. The D being Weak wasnt for lack of trying to fix it in the draft and not he wasnt just filling holes in the second day of the draft but in rounds 1 - 3.

While in Minny his draft stats are as follows:

Offensive players selected - 35
Defensive players selected - 49

Out of all of his selections, 58.3% of his picks was for Defense.

1st day Offensive players selected - 12
1st day Defensive players selected - 21

Out of all of his 1st day(rounds 1,2,and 3) selections, 64% of his picks was for Defense.

1st round Offensive players selected - 4
1st round Defensive players selected - 6

Out of all of his 1st round selections, 60% of his picks was for Defense.

 

[PhxGametime]

For the NFL Draft experts - is there a dominant TE, Draft eligible? Would that even be a position worth looking at?

 

[joeshmo]

For the NFL Draft experts - is there a dominant TE, Draft eligible? Would that even be a position worth looking at?

There are some good ones but none that are really dominant like what people thought of Shockey, Winslow, or Heap in past drafts. But there are a few that would be worth a late 1st or early 2nd.

Heath Miller a Jr. out of Virginia who is 6-5, 255lbs seems to be the best out of the group, he is in the same mold as Bubba Franks or Anthony Becht. Not a great recieving threat but a good one that can block as well. He will be the first round TE this year if he comes out early.

In the same mold as Miller but not as good of a blocker is Kevin Everett out of Miami who is 6-6, and a ripped 255lbs. He will be an early 2nd rounder may sneak into the late first with a good workout.

And depending on where we pick and how FA goes TE could easily be a position Green looks at.