Who does Suggs compare to?

[Ed B]

Re: Look

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
If he had the ability to play off the line...like a Derrick Thomas, he wouldn't make it past the Texans. He simply is not fast enough.

I never, ever, ever said the guy would be anything but a DE. He is a full-time DE, period, and anyone who says he can play LB has never watched him play and just likes to assume that every undersized DE automatically projects to LB.

There are 20+ teams in the NFL right now that are starting a DE who weighs at or less than 260. I don't see any reason we couldn't play the guy every down.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Heh,

I was speaking more to Section 11.

Suggs is a DE.

We need a DE.

God help us if we draft him thinking he is Jamir Miller because he isn't.

 

[Russ Smith]

Re: Re: Look

Originally posted by Ed B
I never, ever, ever said the guy would be anything but a DE. He is a full-time DE, period, and anyone who says he can play LB has never watched him play and just likes to assume that every undersized DE automatically projects to LB.

There are 20+ teams in the NFL right now that are starting a DE who weighs at or less than 260. I don't see any reason we couldn't play the guy every down.

What if Suggs ran a 4.65 today with Graves watching? Would people jump him back up the charts?

Just curious since Chris seems to be the main guy mentioning his lack of strength it seems everyone else is just concerned about his speed.

I haven't seen the kid play enough to know, it's funny a lot of people here joked they hoped he worked out poorly, he does, and now we're all panicking.

 

[Ed B]

I don't think Derrick Thomas was exactly a finished product coming out of school, and I don't know what you're basing "stronger" on. Suggs doesn't really appear to lack strength from what I've seen on the field.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

To be honest

His speed...slight concern.

His strength...major concern...

I would feel much better if he redid his bench reps...but he deliberately didn't in his second workout...which only raised more flags.

He is going to need to have good upper body strength to shed NFL quality blockers. Remember, every week...he is facing guys that are the cream of the crop. There really is no easy matchup in the NFL...just easier....(*barring Matt Joyce isn't facing you*)

If someone told me Suggs benched 225 say even 25 times...which is at least slightly respectable for a DL...then I wouldn't be so concerned.

Ed...Suggs benched 225 18 times...which is awful for a DE. I think Newman outdid him as a corner.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Well. this little tangent is a nice little diversion....but no one has yet to answer Sect 11's original question.....
What do you do with him on 1st Down?


Is everyone going to keep dodging this issue?

 

[Ed B]

I think you're putting too much stock in workout numbers.

I wonder how many "bench reps" dwight freeney did. Henderson and Haynesworth both did less than 20 last year, and they did alright as rookies......at DT, where strength is even more important.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Well. this little tangent is a nice little diversion....but no one has yet to answer Sect 11's original question.....
What do you do with him on 1st Down?


Is everyone going to keep dodging this issue?

\

Can you read? I said 5 times that he's an every-down DE.

First down is a down.

Therefore, on first down, he will play DE.

What part of that did I or Chris Sanders dodge?

 

[Shane]

Re: To be honest

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
His speed...slight concern.

His strength...major concern...

I would feel much better if he redid his bench reps...but he deliberately didn't in his second workout...which only raised more flags.

He is going to need to have good upper body strength to shed NFL quality blockers. Remember, every week...he is facing guys that are the cream of the crop. There really is no easy matchup in the NFL...just easier....(*barring Matt Joyce isn't facing you*)

If someone told me Suggs benched 225 say even 25 times...which is at least slightly respectable for a DL...then I wouldn't be so concerned.

Ed...Suggs benched 225 18 times...which is awful for a DE. I think Newman outdid him as a corner.

Im not overly concerned with either but I would be more cvoncerned witht he strength as well. You dont want him thrown around like a ragdoll once a lineman gets his hands on him.

But from his ability to get off the line I dont see many OL getting to him with solid contact and able to get there hands on him overall!

Did any of you see the pics of him in during his workout? The dudes arms were ripped and big Im really surprised that by his physique he didnt show stronger in the workout! The dude simply looked like a monster!

 

[Ed B]

Chris, look at last year's benching numbers. Bryant and Henderson did 19 or 20, Haynesworth did 18. 18 is not "terrible" for a DE. It's not the best, but I wouldn't say it's abjectly horrible or anything.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Okay I will say it again

Suggs is an every down end.

Hopefully he is a great one where ever he goes. I hate seeing ASU guys be busts.

Remember Jeramy Staat? Guy was a freaking monster for ASU, went to the Steelers and vanished.

 

[Tangodnzr]

OK Ed, so you think he's an everydown end.

So now, if you would, tell me what you think is going to happen when, as I posted earlier, he's playing and the opposing teams starts testing him by running at him on 1st down.

What do you think is going to happen, or be the end result?

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
OK Ed, so you think he's an everydown back.

So now, if you would, tell me what you think is going to happen when, as I posted earlier, he's playing and the opposing teams starts testing him by running at him on 1st down.

What do you think is going to happen, or be the end result?

Either he will be adequate against the run or he will be awful against the run and we will deal with that as the downside of having a pass rusher on the field. Like the dolphins do with Jayson Taylor or the Jets do with Abraham. They stink vs the run. But you take the good with the bad. Sometimes, to get a pass rusher on the field, you just have to deal with his deficiencies in other areas.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
OK Ed, so you think he's an everydown back.

So now, if you would, tell me what you think is going to happen when, as I posted earlier, he's playing and the opposing teams starts testing him by running at him on 1st down.

What do you think is going to happen, or be the end result?

I know Im not Ed but I personally think that Suggs will be just fine in the run game!

His sheer effort and determination as well as ability to react will make him at least adequate in run defense Tango JMO!

 

[Ed B]

I <b>personally</b> think he will do fine against the run for whoever drafts him, but my opinion isn't relevant. The point is, even if he stinks, there is always a trade-off involved. No player excels at everything. If mediocre run-stopping is the price to pay for A+ pass rushing, so be it.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
OK Ed, so you think he's an everydown back.

So now, if you would, tell me what you think is going to happen when, as I posted earlier, he's playing and the opposing teams starts testing him by running at him on 1st down.

What do you think is going to happen, or be the end result?

I'll tell you. He will use his burst of speed upfield and get pushed out of the TV picture like he was during the Holiday Bowl...or...he will get latched onto by a 300lb OT who is significantly better than anything he faced in college and he will become a poster boy at IHOP. But he has the strength to break away from those mammoths and make plays. No, wait a minute, his speed is so great off the line opponents will never consider running towards him.

Sorry, but this Suggs love-in crap is disgusting. Eeveryone is delusional thinking he is LT or DT or any other T.

He compares to Curtis Enis....Bust City baby!

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by AZCB34
I'll tell you. He will use his burst of speed upfield and get pushed out of the TV picture like he was during the Holiday Bowl...or...he will get latched onto by a 300lb OT who is significantly better than anything he faced in college and he will become a poster boy at IHOP. But he has the strength to break away from those mammoths and make plays. No, wait a minute, his speed is so great off the line opponents will never consider running towards him.

Sorry, but this Suggs love-in crap is disgusting. Eeveryone is delusional thinking he is LT or DT or any other T.

He compares to Curtis Enis....Bust City baby!

:roll:

Sorry CB but the guy has absolutley no more bust potential than the guy you have a love fest for Leftwich!

 

[SECTION 11]

My gut concurs, CB.

 

[BACH]

He's an every-down end!!!

He's a bit undersized, but so is Jason Kearse, John Abraham, Simeon Rice, Dwight Freeney etc. True, you CAN run directly at these guys, but they also create so much havoc in the backfield that they messes up opponent's running plays. Sometimes the best running D is play on the way to the quarterback.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by AZCB34
I'll tell you. He will use his burst of speed upfield and get pushed out of the TV picture like he was during the Holiday Bowl...or...he will get latched onto by a 300lb OT who is significantly better than anything he faced in college and he will become a poster boy at IHOP. But he has the strength to break away from those mammoths and make plays. No, wait a minute, his speed is so great off the line opponents will never consider running towards him.

Sorry, but this Suggs love-in crap is disgusting. Eeveryone is delusional thinking he is LT or DT or any other T.

He compares to Curtis Enis....Bust City baby!

I'm sorry, but no one knows that for certain yet. Your opinion is not fact, nor is mine.

I'm just surprised that you all act like this is the first DE in the history of the league who isn't 6'5" and 300. You want to know how suggs will fare against the run? Turn on a Jets or Dolphins or Titans game and watch how their 250 pounders play DE against the run.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Shane H
:roll:

Sorry CB but the guy has absolutley no more bust potential than the guy you have a love fest for Leftwich!

Actually while I like Leftwich he isn't my top choice. That has always been Newman and I know his issues (Ed said everyone has warts). I just am convinced that Suggs will never ever come close to what people on this board expect from him. I won;t go into all my reasons again because I sound like a broken record that most are ignoring anyways. I hope I am wrong but I TRULY believe he will bust as an NFL player. Again, my gut reaction is if Suggs is there at #6, run away...run far away.

 

[Tangodnzr]

My question, though directed at Ed, really is a blanket one to anyone, particularly those who are promoting him as their top draft choice.

I still think the Cards as a team have a better chance at upgrading the overall play of the entire team, by taking a DT, als Kennedy or Robertson at #6.

I just think that the Cards drafting him at #6 is not the best option available if one of those two are still on the board.
My personal preferance is Kennedy.
But as I have stated before. Suggs has a big question mark attached to him in regard to the run situation. He may turn out fine....and then again...he may not. I say that's too much risk for the Card's at 6 given the other personnel they already have on the team.

Could Suggs be worth that or a higher pick to another team? Maybe. But I don't really care about that.

All I'm concerned about is what is the best overall thing to do for the team. As much as it may appear, I'm not "down" on Suggs. It just appears he seems a little over-rated by some as to the impact he would realistically be expected to make on this team.
Would he improve it? I would think so....I still stick with Kennedy or Robertson first though.

 

[Lex]

Who does Terrell Suggs compare to?

Deacon Jones.

Before you start flaming me, the reason I use this analogy, is because I think Suggs will revolutionize the position just like Deacon Jones did. The NFL CHANGED RULES because of Jones.

Every time I see highlights of Suggs, you never see him in the shot, till BOOM, there he is wrapping up the QB. It's the unusual angles he uses to get to the QB. The quick first step, and the second quick MOVE step, are much more important in my opinion, than 40 times. I think he learned the angles he uses, when he was a running back THREE YEARS AGO! Rarely does he actually rush around the edge, he moves across the line of scrimmage, and then makes a second devastating move, and BOOM, play over.

Keep in mind...he won nearly every major college award for defensive linemen last year, and set the all time college sack record, in his third year as a defensive player. He's 21, and if his learning curve continues as it did in college, look out NFL!

 

[Ed B]

Well, Tango, you are definitely entitled to the opinion that a DT is the best player to draft, but why not just say that? If you think a DT will help most, then the specifics of Suggs and his position and skills/etc are not relevant to your argument.

For the record, I'd flip Jimmy Kennedy and Dewayne Robertson. Robertson is a very intense player whereas Kennedy has shown every personnel and draft man in the NFL that he promises to be a fat, lazy tease who never realizes his potential.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Ed B
I'm sorry, but no one knows that for certain yet. Your opinion is not fact, nor is mine.

I'm just surprised that you all act like this is the first DE in the history of the league who isn't 6'5" and 300. You want to know how suggs will fare against the run? Turn on a Jets or Dolphins or Titans game and watch how their 250 pounders play DE against the run.

Don't get me wrong, I know all about DE sizes since that was always how I pointed out Colvin being an every down DE if they had been able to land him. I am basing it on watching him and what I saw and sensed differs from everyone else (means I am probably wrong).

It is my opinion (obviously cannot be fact) that he will bust. Frankly I hope I am wrong since he seems like a decent kid but I just cannot shake the reality my mind is telling me. Run away.

Go ahead and trout slap me I guess