Who Is Gani Lawal

[Mainstreet]

if we pay frye an average of $6M/year we're overpaying (just as the clips did with TT). minimum? no. but he should be on the lower end of the range. $3-4M.

This sounds right to me, however, I'm not the other teams.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Frye is probably not worth the MLE, but he's worth more than the minimum. I'd take him in-between those 2 amounts. I don't see why people wouldn't. He was much better than a minimum-level player this past season.

Because he was the whipping boy of choice last season for most of the fans (or at least most of the fans that needed a whipping boy). People seemed to always focus on what he couldn't do while ignoring most of the things he brought to the team. If I were Frye, I'd go elsewhere even if it was for the minimum because he'll never overcome his reputation in Phoenix. From some of the comments about him, you'd have thought he was our disappointing superstar rather than a low salaried role player.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

if we pay frye an average of $6M/year we're overpaying (just as the clips did with TT). minimum? no. but he should be on the lower end of the range. $3-4M.

I think 6 mil is probably a little high for him but he's a lot more likable as a player and probably as a person than TT. He doesn't have Tim's talent but Tim doesn't use his abilities very often anyway. In the long run, someone like Channing is worth a lot more than Thomas because he won't tear apart the clubhouse.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Because he was the whipping boy of choice last season for most of the fans (or at least most of the fans that needed a whipping boy). People seemed to always focus on what he couldn't do while ignoring most of the things he brought to the team. If I were Frye, I'd go elsewhere even if it was for the minimum because he'll never overcome his reputation in Phoenix. From some of the comments about him, you'd have thought he was our disappointing superstar rather than a low salaried role player.

Steve

I think you got the "whipping boy" part right. It's sure nice to give Nash a short reprieve from that role.

The primary thing about Frye is that the Suns system revived a career that was on the decline. I would think Frye would like to continue to play in a system in which he is a good fit. IMO, if the Suns come close with a contract offer he stays.

 

[Chaplin]

Because he was the whipping boy of choice last season for most of the fans (or at least most of the fans that needed a whipping boy). People seemed to always focus on what he couldn't do while ignoring most of the things he brought to the team. If I were Frye, I'd go elsewhere even if it was for the minimum because he'll never overcome his reputation in Phoenix. From some of the comments about him, you'd have thought he was our disappointing superstar rather than a low salaried role player.

Steve

I think that's mostly on this board. Sure, he was frustrating in a lot of games, but he never LOST us games by himself. But he sure as hell helped us win most of the games we won.

 

[Sunburn]

I think that's mostly on this board. Sure, he was frustrating in a lot of games, but he never LOST us games by himself. But he sure as hell helped us win most of the games we won.

I disagree with this. He absolutely lost us games. In the Lakers series, he was the equivalent of the anti-run when he was inserted. He came into the line-up and the Lakers would immediately go on a run. He single-handedly shot us out of games, not just in the WCF. He could be absolutely eaten alive on defense, left us scratching our heads with his decision-making at moments, and was a liability if his shot was not falling. He was an infuriatingly inconsistent player. Now, this was only because he would look like diamonds for stretches. He did help us tremendously when he played well. He spoiled us for games and then we would forget that he was a cheap acquisition that nobody expected much from going into the season. For his salary, he was a bargain but, make no mistake, he did cost us games when he played poorly because we forced ourselves to rely on him for production. 3 M per sounds reasonable. No more. He works here only because he fits here, not because he's a fantastic player. If he ends up anywhere else I predict his career goes straight down the toilet bowl. He needs us more than we need him. Plug in any 4 or 5 that can shoot and I think he would make it in our system.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I disagree with this. He absolutely lost us games. In the Lakers series, he was the equivalent of the anti-run when he was inserted. He came into the line-up and the Lakers would immediately go on a run. He single-handedly shot us out of games, not just in the WCF. He could be absolutely eaten alive on defense, left us scratching our heads with his decision-making at moments, and was a liability most times if his shot was not falling. He was an infuriatingly inconsistent player. Now, this was only because he would look like absolute diamonds for stretches. He spoiled us for games and then we would forget that he was a cheap acquisition that nobody expected much from going into the season. For his salary, he was a bargain but, make no mistake, he did cost us games when he played poorly because we forced ourselves to rely on him for production. 3 M per sounds reasonable. No more. He works here only because he fits here, not because he's a fantastic player. If he ends up anywhere else I predict his career goes straight down the toilet bowl.

I don't buy it. If he cost us games in the WCF it was by not being great rather than by being horrible (and he was horrible in game 1). We put him on the bench and had plenty of chances to win, especially in game 2, but we were unable to do it. Sure, if he had played his best we probably win that series but the same is even more true of Amare and probably Nash. And each of them share much greater responsibility for leading this team to victory than a role player such as Frye.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I disagree with this. He absolutely lost us games. In the Lakers series, he was the equivalent of the anti-run when he was inserted. He came into the line-up and the Lakers would immediately go on a run. He single-handedly shot us out of games, not just in the WCF. He could be absolutely eaten alive on defense, left us scratching our heads with his decision-making at moments, and was a liability most times if his shot was not falling. He was an infuriatingly inconsistent player. Now, this was only because he would look like absolute diamonds for stretches. He spoiled us for games and then we would forget that he was a cheap acquisition that nobody expected much from going into the season. For his salary, he was a bargain but, make no mistake, he did cost us games when he played poorly because we forced ourselves to rely on him for production. 3 M per sounds reasonable. No more. He works here only because he fits here, not because he's a fantastic player. If he ends up anywhere else I predict his career goes straight down the toilet bowl.

I have no doubt the Suns would have never secured the 3rd seed in the Western Conference without Frye playing center with Lopez out. This would have given the Suns a tougher road to the WCFs. The Suns got some nice matchups in the playoffs until the Lakers. Without Frye making the 3's all year and in the playoffs the Suns don't even make it to conference finals. I basically agree with the area I put in bold. Don't blame Frye for the Suns putting him in position to maximize his talent.

Edit: I don't agree about the toilet but Frye's play does suffer if he leaves the Suns.

 

[Sunburn]

I don't buy it. If he cost us games in the WCF it was by not being great rather than by being horrible (and he was horrible in game 1). We put him on the bench and had plenty of chances to win, especially in game 2, but we were unable to do it. Sure, if he had played his best we probably win that series but the same is even more true of Amare and probably Nash. And each of them share much greater responsibility for leading this team to victory than a role player such as Frye.

Steve

I'm not talking about Amare and Nash, and I'm most definitely not talking about just the WCF. I don't want to go through the entire season and analyze where Frye hurt us and what the ratio of games is compared to him helping us. Bottomline, when his shot isn't falling he is a terrible liability and he is not worth more than 3 M.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not talking about Amare and Nash, and I'm most definitely not talking about just the WCF. I don't want to go through the entire season and analyze where Frye hurt us and what the ratio of games is compared to him helping us. Bottomline, when his shot isn't falling he is a terrible liability and he is not worth more than 3 M.

Frye has never been able to hold his position against a player with a much lower center of gravity. That aside, though, his defense steadily improved throughout the season and IMO he played pretty well in the WCF from game 3 on. I think 6 mil is too high for the guy and 3 mil is too low. I wouldn't hesitate to pay him 4.5 to 5 mil though.

Steve

 

[Sunburn]

I have no doubt the Suns would have never secured the 3rd seed in the Western Conference without Frye playing center with Lopez out. This would have given the Suns a tougher road to the WCFs. The Suns got some nice matchups in the playoffs until the Lakers. Without Frye making the 3's all year and in the playoffs the Suns don't even make it to conference finals. I basically agree with the area I put in bold. Don't blame Frye for the Suns putting him in position to maximize his talent.

Edit: I don't agree about the toilet but Frye's play does suffer if he leaves the Suns.

Where was his career before he came to the Suns? The toilet. Where will it go if he leaves? The toilet. I'm not blaming Frye for the Suns putting him in position to maximize his talent. I'm not even really sure what that means. I'm blaming him for hurting the club when his shot isn't falling. He is absolutely a liability when his shot is not falling. Let me say that one more time, he is an absolutely gigantic liability when his shot is not falling. He can't defend, can't rebound, is even softer than Amare, makes bad decisions, really can't do anything well if his 3 point shot isn't going in. Now, if his 3 point shot is going in it makes up for all the rest of these shortcomings, but we experienced some rather disturbing droughts in the biggest of moments and infuriatingly inconsistent play during the season. I agree that we would not have made the WCF without him, however, this was really only because we were absolutely horsef&*$ed in the big man department at the time. We had no better options. We had to plug Jarron freaking Collins into the starting line-up. Come on.

 

[Chaplin]

Frye has never been able to hold his position against a player with a much lower center of gravity. That aside, though, his defense steadily improved throughout the season and IMO he played pretty well in the WCF from game 3 on. I think 6 mil is too high for the guy and 3 mil is too low. I wouldn't hesitate to pay him 4.5 to 5 mil though.

Steve

Hell, Frye was arguably a much better defender in the WCF than Amare was!

 

[Chaplin]

Where was his career before he came to the Suns? The toilet. Where will it go if he leaves? The toilet. I'm not blaming Frye for the Suns putting him in position to maximize his talent. I'm not even really sure what that means. I'm blaming him for hurting the club when his shot isn't falling. He is absolutely a liability when his shot is not falling. Let me say that one more time, he is an absolutely gigantic liability when his shot is not falling. He can't defend, can't rebound, is even softer than Amare, makes bad decisions, really can't do anything well if his 3 point shot isn't going in. Now, if his 3 point shot is going in it makes up for all the rest of these shortcomings, but we experienced some rather disturbing droughts in the biggest of moments and infuriatingly inconsistent play during the season. I agree that we would not have made the WCF without him, however, this was really only because we were absolutely horsef&*$ed in the big man department at the time. We had no better options. We had to plug Jarron freaking Collins into the starting line-up. Come on.

I understand where you're coming from, but you're just plain wrong about Collins. They wanted someone similar to Robin to start and keep Channing coming off the bench, that was the only reason they started Collins. Don't go making stuff up about him not being good enough to start. That's ridiculous.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree that we would not have made the WCF without him, however, this was really only because we were absolutely horsef&*$ed in the big man department at the time. We had no better options. We had to plug Jarron freaking Collins into the starting line-up. Come on.

So we agree the Suns would have not made it to the WCF's without Frye playing center. I just like to give credit where credit is due.

 

[Sunburn]

Frye has never been able to hold his position against a player with a much lower center of gravity. That aside, though, his defense steadily improved throughout the season and IMO he played pretty well in the WCF from game 3 on. I think 6 mil is too high for the guy and 3 mil is too low. I wouldn't hesitate to pay him 4.5 to 5 mil though.

Steve

Ugh way too much imo. I'm not sure if I can agree with you that his defense steadily improved this season, but even if it did, what exactly are you trying to prove by making this point? If a player's defense goes from the worst ever to extremely sh$%ty, what would you call that player's defense? Not the worst ever? Improved but extremely sh$%ty? That's not a great case you're making. He's worse than Amare. He sucks at defense, plain and simple. No matter how you try to argue it, that's the case. And that's not all. He's below average in just about everything a big man can be graded on if his shot is not falling. I hate to say it again, but you force me to, he is a liability if his 3 point shot is not going down. And you want to give this player 5 M per year? Are you insane? Don't let the circumstances and warm fuzzy memories of the season blind you to the reality of the situation.

 

[Sunburn]

So we agree the Suns would have not made it to the WCF's without Frye playing center. I just like to give credit where credit is due.

Yes we can agree on that. Bravo to you sir. However, since you'd like to manipulate the context of my post in this puerile manner just to give yourself a pat on the back, allow me to refer you and everyone else who reads this back to my previous statement so everyone might know the original context.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Don't let the circumstances and warm fuzzy memories of the season blind you to the reality of the situation.

Gee, is that what's happening? And here I thought my opinion was based on watching every single game (many of them more than once) and not being swayed by a play here and a play there. We'll just have to agree to disagree even though you're clearly wrong.

Steve

 

[Sunburn]

I understand where you're coming from, but you're just plain wrong about Collins. They wanted someone similar to Robin to start and keep Channing coming off the bench, that was the only reason they started Collins. Don't go making stuff up about him not being good enough to start. That's ridiculous.

Plain wrong about Collins with what? You're missing my point by focusing on the word "starting". Starting line-up, second line-up, whatever. The fact that Collins played a significant role in any line-up proves my point that we had a serious deficiency in the big man department. We had NO better options.

 

[Sunburn]

Gee, is that what's happening? And here I thought my opinion was based on watching every single game (many of them more than once) and not being swayed by a play here and a play there. We'll just have to agree to disagree even though you're clearly wrong.

Steve

Agree to disagree.

PS You're not the only avid Suns game observer. This is a Suns board after all. You'll forgive me if I can't be 100% sold on your analysis simply because you say you're not subjective and I'm wrong.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Agree to disagree.

PS You're not the only avid Suns game observer. This is a Suns board after all. You'll forgive me if I can't be totally sold on the fact that you're analysis is 100% objective simply because you say you're not subjective.

I'm quite aware of that. Honestly, a few of your other posts came across as if you were perhaps unaware of that fact. Truth is, I agree with you more often than not I just think that Frye took way too much blame this season. And I don't think anyone that's as opinionated as I am could ever lay claim to being purely objective.

Steve

 

[Sunburn]

I'm quite aware of that. Honestly, a few of your other posts came across as if you were perhaps unaware of that fact. Truth is, I agree with you more often than not I just think that Frye took way too much blame this season. And I don't think anyone that's as opinionated as I am could ever lay claim to being purely objective.

Steve

Fair enough. *handshake*

 

[Mainstreet]

Yes we can agree on that. Bravo to you sir. However, since you'd like to manipulate the context of my post in this puerile manner just to give yourself a pat on the back, allow me to refer you and everyone else who reads this back to my previous statement so everyone might know the original context.

I was actually offering a graceful exit to our discussion to which we both could agree. I do not engage in a winner take all strategy. Too bad you could not have ended this post after your first sentence. Snide remarks do not impress me.

 

[myrondizzo]

anybody want to talk about Lawal?

 

[AzStevenCal]

anybody want to talk about Lawal?

Umm, how does he compare to Frye?

Actually, I don't know much about the guy. I do know that a mid to late 2nd round pick is not likely to stick in the NBA. However, both he and the Miami guy bring something to the Suns that we've long been lacking and that's toughness. Whether it's enough to turn either of them into contributors remains to be seen.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

Listening to Sarver on the radio, I do believe these picks are replacements for Frye more than Amare. Sarver said he has come to the conclusion that defense is the way to win in the NBA. BTW, the scariest thing about that interview was Sarver talking about bball like he actually knows something about it. He is not Colangelo. He did not come up through the ranks. He is a banker. He needs to hire a good gm and get out of the way.