Who is the best player on the Phoenix Suns?

[slinslin]

Please vote although it is probably pretty obvious at least to us.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Skill wise or most dominant??

Amare is clearly the most dominant player, but he does it more on his physical nature than on his skill set.

For example, by grandmother could box out better than him.

I would have to say that JJ is the most skilled player on the team.

This is just a watered down version of "who is the lakers best player". Obviously Kobe has more skill, but no one can stop Shaq.

 

[zett]

I would have too agree. Amare is the more valueble (sp) player, as post people should be, But joe johnson can do more all around things and is a little smarter player at this point in there careers.

 

[Chaplin]

I would have too agree. Amare is the more valueble (sp) player, as post people should be, But joe johnson can do more all around things and is a little smarter player at this point in there careers.

I happen to think that since Joe is so young, Shawn Marion is probably the best all-around player on the Phoenix Suns. He's got a ton of intangibles when he's playing like he is expected to, and there are few small forwards in the league that are his caliber. You can't say that about Joe Johnson.

 

[sunsfn]

I happen to think that since Joe is so young, Shawn Marion is probably the best all-around player on the Phoenix Suns. He's got a ton of intangibles when he's playing like he is expected to, and there are few small forwards in the league that are his caliber. You can't say that about Joe Johnson.

I agree, and I screwed up and voted wrong, I hit the vote for JJ...........
Change it!!!

 

[Yuma]

Skill wise or most dominant??

Amare is clearly the most dominant player, but he does it more on his physical nature than on his skill set.

For example, by grandmother could box out better than him.

I would have to say that JJ is the most skilled player on the team.

This is just a watered down version of "who is the lakers best player". Obviously Kobe has more skill, but no one can stop Shaq.

Not disagreeing with you, but another way to look at it is who would other GMs want most from your team. I would have to say Amare would be the first pick of all the GMs if they could get one player from the Suns!! If you look at the Lakers, Kobe may have skills, but most GMs would take Shaq in a heart beat. The Lakers said if they had to choose, they would keep Shaq over Kobe. Just another factor to rank players by!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Not disagreeing with you, but another way to look at it is who would other GMs want most from your team. I would have to say Amare would be the first pick of all the GMs if they could get one player from the Suns!! If you look at the Lakers, Kobe may have skills, but most GMs would take Shaq in a heart beat. The Lakers said if they had to choose, they would keep Shaq over Kobe. Just another factor to rank players by!

That is because they are the most dominant. A player can be as good as he wants, but if he cannot dominate the opposition every night no matter who it is, it doesnt really matter.

Obviously Amare is the player of choice, I just don't think he is the best.


About Shawn, I thought about him to. However, a lot of his skills are also based on athleticism(not that its a bad thing). His rebounding is so good because he can simply jump higher and faster than opponents. His shot is horribly flawed, and his dribbling leaves a lot to be desired.

Personally, if I were picking my team

I would choose, Amare, then Shawn then JJ.

I still think JJ is the most skilled though.

 

[BC867]

You also can't help but factor in . . . who has the potential to be the best, as he gains experience.

Amare is leading this poll hands-down, because he's showing the potential to become one of the greatest Power Forwards before he's through.

Whereas Marion and Johnson will never be considered all-time greats.

Right?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Again, of course Amare has the potential to be the best player, but the question asked for the current best

 

[F-Dog]

You know, big men have 'skills' too. They're not as easy to notice on TV (especially if you spend all your time watching the ball), but they're just as difficult to learn, and just as necessary for success.

I agree that the choice here is pretty obvious.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

You know, big men have 'skills' too. They're not as easy to notice on TV (especially if you spend all your time watching the ball), but they're just as difficult to learn, and just as necessary for success.

I agree that the choice here is pretty obvious.

I thought I mentioned this. Big men do have skills. A great example is Tim Duncan, he isnt called the big fundamental for nothing. However, Amare doesn't have many skills.

He has a suspect jumper.
He cant box out if his life depended on it (which is why isnt averaging 12 boards like e should be)
His man defense leaves a lot to be desired at times.
His ball handling is attrocious

Everything Amare does he does with strength and athleticism. Which is why he will most likely become a top player in this league.

However, don't kid yourself and think that he is extremely skilled. If he gets a good summer of working out this year (and doesn't get tapped for the olympics) then a lot of those problems should dissapear. His jumper has already improved a lot, as has his passing out of double teams. In a year or two he will be the best we have, although right now I don't think so.

 

[F-Dog]

However, don't kid yourself and think that he is extremely skilled. If he gets a good summer of working out this year (and doesn't get tapped for the olympics) then a lot of those problems should dissapear. His jumper has already improved a lot, as has his passing out of double teams. In a year or two he will be the best we have, although right now I don't think so.

You don't score 25 points a game from the post by accident, no matter how athletic you are. Amare is still raw and unpolished, but his handle, footwork, ability to adjust his shot after contact, timing on shot-blocking, are just a few of the skills he has that are already at a high level.

Here's an analogy for you: you see two houses, one with a very high ceiling, the other with a lower ceiling. Which occupant would you expect to be taller?


If the Suns had to win a significant (playoff) game against a good NBA team, Amare is the last player I'd want to be without. (This was true in last year's playoffs, too.) There's simply no way to replace his contributions.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

I am so shocked you omitted one player off your list, and that is Keon Clark! Isn't he worthy of some recognition/consideration?

 

[Joe Mama]

I thought I mentioned this. Big men do have skills. A great example is Tim Duncan, he isnt called the big fundamental for nothing. However, Amare doesn't have many skills.

He has a suspect jumper.
He cant box out if his life depended on it (which is why isnt averaging 12 boards like e should be)
His man defense leaves a lot to be desired at times.
His ball handling is attrocious

Everything Amare does he does with strength and athleticism. Which is why he will most likely become a top player in this league.

However, don't kid yourself and think that he is extremely skilled. If he gets a good summer of working out this year (and doesn't get tapped for the olympics) then a lot of those problems should dissapear. His jumper has already improved a lot, as has his passing out of double teams. In a year or two he will be the best we have, although right now I don't think so.

last year almost everything Amare Stoudemire did was done with strength and athleticism. This year, especially since he returned from his ankle injury, he has much more. He has a very soft touch around the basket. A good number of his baskets come from balls that bounce around or roll around the rim and drop in the basket. His footwork has also improved.

I also think that Amare's man to man defense is pretty good. He's not nearly as good as the great man to man defenders, but he's at least average. I actually think it's his team defense that is below average. He does a terrible job of boxing out, but I do think all of these gimmicky defenses are partly to blame.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

last year almost everything Amare Stoudemire did was done with strength and athleticism. This year, especially since he returned from his ankle injury, he has much more. He has a very soft touch around the basket. A good number of his baskets come from balls that bounce around or roll around the rim and drop in the basket. His footwork has also improved.

I also think that Amare's man to man defense is pretty good. He's not nearly as good as the great man to man defenders, but he's at least average. I actually think it's his team defense that is below average. He does a terrible job of boxing out, but I do think all of these gimmicky defenses are partly to blame.

Joe Mama

I agree. Amare is still a work in progress, but is already an impact player and keeps improving. How many PFs are better right now? KG, Duncan, and J O'Neal are the only ones I would trade Amare for. Neither KG nor J O'Neal were nearly as good that early in their careers.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Ok, I was a little harsh on Amare's skill set. He has good footwork.

However, the reason he is able to finsih a lot of his shots is based on his strength.

Anyways, I said he has improved a lot since last year, and I expect that to continue. However, I dont think it is possible to argue that he is more skilled than JJ.

 

[green machine]

Where can I write in Howard Eisley?

 

[elindholm]

My definition of "best" is, "most qualified to help his team win games." I guess it's sort of like "most valuable" in that regard. Can a team that usually loses still have a "best" player? I think so, because that team could still be in a position to win against inferior competition, if they were fortunate enough to find some.

Anyway, I went with Stoudemire. The Suns are a different team when he is on the floor, in a way that can't be said for either Marion or Johnson. At this stage, Johnson doesn't usually do a whole lot more than a pickup from the NBDL would, and Marion's game is too narrow to have any real impact.

 

[sunsfn]

At this stage, Johnson doesn't usually do a whole lot more than a pickup from the NBDL would, and Marion's game is too narrow to have any real impact.

ARE YOU KIDDING!!!!!?????

JJ is not worth any more to this team than a pickup from the NBDL....!

Marion's game is too narrow to have any real impact...!

elindholm,
You have got to be kidding,,,,,,right?

 

[Skkorpion]

Good question. Guards and centers dominate the NBA. Very few forwards, whether big or small, change their teams fortunes.

And that is part of what's wrong with the Suns. Two of our best three players are our two forwards. Woop-te-doodoo. Forward talent abounds everywhere. Guard and center talent doesn't.

Joe Johnson's skill sets and size can make a difference. Stoudemire and Marion can't.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Good question. Guards and centers dominate the NBA. Very few forwards, whether big or small, change their teams fortunes.

And that is part of what's wrong with the Suns. Two of our best three players are our two forwards. Woop-te-doodoo. Forward talent abounds everywhere. Guard and center talent doesn't.

Joe Johnson's skill sets and size can make a difference. Stoudemire and Marion can't.

Well, our experience with awesome guards hasn't done to well for us.

However, our experience with good forwards, Barkley and Adams for example has.

 

[Skkorpion]

Well, our experience with awesome guards hasn't done to well for us.

However, our experience with good forwards, Barkley and Adams for example has.

Excuse me, wasn't Alvan Adams a center? Albeit a thin one and a high post one but one who gave fits to slower players. And Paul Westphal and Rickey Sobers were outstanding guards. And Gar Heard and Curtis Perry were no slouches at forward.

And on our second team to reach the finals, Charles Barkley was our best player but the guards were Kevin Johnson and Dan Majerle and Danny Ainge and the other forwards were Cedric Ceballos and Richard Dumas and the center was Oliver Miller BEFORE he ate himself out of a job.

I think I could argue that those two sets of guards were the best we ever had. And wasn't Erickson the shooting guard off the bench for the Westphal team?

In the interim, we had Maurice Lucas and then Truck Robinson, and they didn't make much of a difference.

If forwards mattered much, the Kings and Dallas and Minnesota and New Jersey would alternate winning the NBA title.

That was THE most talented team in the NBA but Michael Jordan beat us anyway.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

From what I have read Alvin Adams was a PF out of position. His bio says he was only 6'9".

Yes we did have great sets of guards in both those runs, but you cannot ignore the fact that those guards did nothing until they had a good forward on their team.


There is a general misconception that you need a dominant center to win titles. The real fact is you need a dominant inside presence, backed up by good perimeter shooting and wing play. Championship teams work the ball inside out, whether it is a center or PF does not matter.

Just to back up my point some more

Good question. Guards and centers dominate the NBA. Very few forwards, whether big or small, change their teams fortunes.

Tell that to:

Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Jermaine O'neal
Chris Webber
Pau Gasol
Jamal Mashburn (he was the success story for last year, not so much this year)
Dirk Nowitzki
Carmello Anthony
Karl Malone
Andre Kirilenko



I only took players from playoff teams, but you could also add Elton Brand, Zach Randolph and others to that list.

edit
I totally forgot about the insider article today when I posted this. Check it out, it runs down the numbers on PFs.

 

[green machine]

Nowadays there are very few set positions. We have 7ft SF, 6'9 Centers, and many other sizes for every position. I feel that a big man can dominate. Whether they are listed as a C or a PF it doesn't matter, they're still big. Amare could play C most nights and do well probably, but he won't match up well with the Shaq's and the Yao's of the league. Then again, few can.

 

[elindholm]

From what I have read Alvin Adams was a PF out of position.

Or even a SF. I don't know what his playing weight was, but in the old tapes, he sure doesn't look very muscular. And (as others have stated) he was much more effective from the high post -- including shooting jumpers from the top of the key, which he did very well -- than down in the paint.

But it was a different era. Walter Davis was listed at 6' 6" (generously, I'd guess) and had a shooting guard's game, but he lined up as a forward for most of his career. Most likely he'd be a major defensive liability if he played today. But man, could he shoot!