Why Brad Johnson is a key acquisition in 2005

[Sandan]

This brings up an interesting point. Did any player, other than maybe Wilson, from the Tobin/McGinnis group really play any better in 2004 than they did in 2003?

The offense still stunk and the drastic improvement on defense, ranking in the top half of the NFL for the first time since 1994, was mainly a result of the guys Green brought in.

I've long thought that it was poor coaching that kept the Cards losing year after year. Maybe it was terrible talent selection after all.

Or was the previous coaching so bad that it will take another off season/pre season to get the holdovers playing to a higher level?

Most likely all of the above

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Give Josh a break

I personally think it takes 3 years as a starter to really evaluate how good a QB really is--I think Josh has only had about 18 starts under his belt (I haven't checked the stats) Also, I believe this will be the 3rd or 4th new OC since Josh has been here.

I still think Josh is going to be a very solid starting QB, maybe I drink too much Josh Koolaid, but I think next year will be his coming out party--hopefully not coming out of the game to sit on the bench!

I say give JM another shot, we are too quick to call for his head in his first year as a starter...if we can get the running game going it will work wonders for him.

 

[Redsz]

Loyalty, Josh has had 16 games as a starter over the 03 and 04 seasons. So, he has completed his 'rookie year' in terms of playing time as a starter.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Sign me up for the Johnson Bandwagon

We all have watched a lot of Peyton Manning this year and who wouldn't. One thing that Manning has is an amazing understanding of his offense, a lot of his passes where thrown in an exact spot knowing the WR would be there before he even spent time looking for the 'open guy'. It is a dangerous chemistry that the Colts have, the Patriots year after year seem to mess with it because they have a great coach and play physical with the Colt Wrs so they can't reach their spots. Johnson would be a great pickup because he has a good understanding of what Green is running and where the WRs will be. Considering the draft and the free-agents available, I would have to agree that Brad Johnson would be a good fit for this team at this time. A majority of the big plays Boldin has had in the past where quick throws he was able to catch in stride before the QB even had time to look for this open WR.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

McCown just needs some seasoning? Did you watch the last game of the year? He could not hit an open guy more than 10 yards down the field to save his life. He is the most awful QB I recall seeing in years. If he starts anywhere ever again it will be a pretty telling statement about how little talent there is in the league at QB. McCown just can not see the open guy and deliver the ball while he is open. No seasoning will fix that.

Sounds like Ryan Leaf, without the psychotic episodes...Great practice qb, but can't hit the broad side of a barn, when it counts.

 

[CaptTurbo]

I personally think it takes 3 years as a starter to really evaluate how good a QB really is.

HA!

I knew it would come. They started out saying he needed 8 good starts. Then 12 then 16 now 3 years lol.

I was McCowns biggest backer before the season. After week 2 it was painfully evident.

To get Johnson would be the biggest mistake this franchise has ever made. your essentially saying "lets lose the next 3 years draft a QB and begin rebuilding."

 

[Stout]

Same as you watching and listening. Yes I will give you the last game where he played like garbage but usually when our Wrs were open he was usually running for his life. An offense relies heavily on timing and usually our Wrs weren't getting seperation or our pass protection would completely break down.

Was there times where Josh missed some open Wrs that he should have gotten? Absolutely. I won't excuse him completely there were some times where it was his fault. There were also of plenty of times where it wasn't.

However if you think about it if our WRs got open all the time and did as exactly they should then why was our WRs coach fired?

First, you said in THIS game our WRs were getting no separation. They were, quite often, as the announcers showed us with overhead camera angles. There were at least five times in that last game where he wasn't running for his life, where the pass protection didn't break down, and he STILL missed those open receivers. That's why the announcers jumped his case.

Now, this begs the question...how often was this happening earlier in the year? We weren't seeing these larger camera shots of the whole field, for the most part, except the final game. All we would see is the CB right with the WR when the ball arrives, usually short, slowing the receiver up. Was it the receiver not getting separation, or coming back for the ball?

At any rate, outside of a few occasions where Josh was on a hot streak, he didn't show good accuracy---and those hot streaks were usually on very short passes. He didn't show pocket presence. He didn't use his mobility nearly enough. in short, he didn't do much. Sorry, but where's the proof otherwises?

 

[Redsz]

HA!

I knew it would come. They started out saying he needed 8 good starts. Then 12 then 16 now 3 years lol.

I was McCowns biggest backer before the season. After week 2 it was painfully evident.

To get Johnson would be the biggest mistake this franchise has ever made. your essentially saying "lets lose the next 3 years draft a QB and begin rebuilding."

Anybody who says that it takes 8 games to evaluate a QB has some serious misconceptions about the postion.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Anybody who says that it takes 8 games to evaluate a QB has some serious misconceptions about the postion.

ditto about 3 years.

 

[40yearfan]

McCown just needs some seasoning? Did you watch the last game of the year? He could not hit an open guy more than 10 yards down the field to save his life. He is the most awful QB I recall seeing in years. If he starts anywhere ever again it will be a pretty telling statement about how little talent there is in the league at QB. McCown just can not see the open guy and deliver the ball while he is open. No seasoning will fix that.

I saw the last game of the year. I also saw the Miami game. Can you say the same things about Josh in that game that you are saying here?

In numerous posts on this board, I have shown what some of the greatest QB's to ever play in this league did in their first full season of play and an overwhelming majority of them played exactly like Josh has. Up one game and down the next. Very erratic.

Now I don't know if Josh is the answer, but I do know that you have to give him more time to develope. This Brad Johnson idea might just be what the doctor ordered. Now we just need to wait and see if D. Green agrees.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Now I don't know if Josh is the answer, but I do know that you have to give him more time to develope. This Brad Johnson idea might just be what the doctor ordered. Now we just need to wait and see if D. Green agrees.

He had 3 years on the bench and learned absolutely nothing. What would another year on the bench accomplish?

 

[JeffGollin]

Job Description

We ought to think of any specific guy we'd want to bring in in the following manner:

Any veteran QB we pick up with an eye toward starting would have to be compare favorably to McCown in most if not all of the following areas.

- Sees the field better/can find the open man.

- Better at picking up presnap reads.

- More adept at audibling out of a bad play.

- More accurate (short and long)

- Strong enough arm to throw deep out

- Just as mobile

- Better command in the huddle

- 6-2 or taller (or at least can find passing lanes to throw ball without having ball batted down)

- Reasonably durable

I'm probably forgetting a few things, but my point is - whether it's Brad Johnson or anyone else - our scouts/offensive coaches should place these criteria higher than a guy's past reputation as a player.

 

[CaptTurbo]

We ought to think of any specific guy we'd want to bring in in the following manner:

Any veteran QB we pick up with an eye toward starting would have to be compare favorably to McCown in most if not all of the following areas.

- Sees the field better/can find the open man.

- Better at picking up presnap reads.

- More adept at audibling out of a bad play.

- More accurate (short and long)

- Strong enough arm to throw deep out

- Just as mobile

- Better command in the huddle

- 6-2 or taller (or at least can find passing lanes to throw ball without having ball batted down)

- Reasonably durable

I'm probably forgetting a few things, but my point is - whether it's Brad Johnson or anyone else - our scouts/offensive coaches should place these criteria higher than a guy's past reputation as a player.

Jeff, you compare favorably to McCown in most if not all of the those areas!

 

[CardinalChris]

Just as "great" QBs had Josh-like years to start their career, a lot more had MISERABLE careers with Josh-like years.

 

[az jam]

I just can't come up with a good experienced qb to fit the Cards needs. DG will get rid of King no doubt about that. He will bring in a qb to compete with Josh for the starting job. Navarre will be on the team and perhaps in the mix.
I'm sure DG has someone in mind but I just have not come up with a good fit.

 

[40yearfan]

He had 3 years on the bench and learned absolutely nothing. What would another year on the bench accomplish?

He had a little over a year and one-half on the bench. He started the last 3 games of 2003 and played in 14 games in 2004. The other thing to remember is that his first two years were under a completely different coaching system and as most posters on the web-site agree, a coaching system that wasn't very competent.

BTW, I'm not advocating he sit on the bench next year. Bring in a competent, serviceable QB and let the three QB's compete to see who will be the starter. We might all be surprised and see Navarre as the starter.

I just feel it's a little early to give up on Josh.

 

[Faithful]

Did you watch more games than just that one? Seriously it doesn't seem like it. Our Wrs were rarely open and getting seperation was considered a major feat.

I agree w/Evil Ash.

Does anyone know how P. Manning did in his first 2 years? What if the Colts had given up on him?

 

[clif]

He had a little over a year and one-half on the bench. He started the last 3 games of 2003 and played in 14 games in 2004. The other thing to remember is that his first two years were under a completely different coaching system and as most posters on the web-site agree, a coaching system that wasn't very competent.

BTW, I'm not advocating he sit on the bench next year. Bring in a competent, serviceable QB and let the three QB's compete to see who will be the starter. We might all be surprised and see Navarre as the starter.

I just feel it's a little early to give up on Josh.

This whole Josh stuff is so tiresome. I am fairly confident he will be here next year competing for the starting job. My opinion is based on his youth, athletic ability, desire to be successful, and lack of viable options being available.

brad johnson should not be anywhere near this team.

 

[Russ Smith]

Did you watch more games than just that one? Seriously it doesn't seem like it. Our Wrs were rarely open and getting seperation was considered a major feat.

I agree w/Evil Ash.

Does anyone know how P. Manning did in his first 2 years? What if the Colts had given up on him?

Manning threw 26 TD 28 picks as a rookie on a team that was 3-13 the year before and 3-13 his rookie year. He had Faulk of course. 99 they drafted Edgerrin James to replace Faulk and went 13-3, Manning again had 26 TD, only 15 picks, a 91 Passer rating.

There's just no comparison to what Manning was coming in and what Josh is.

Manning is a bad comparison, how many rookie QB's throw 26 TD passes?

 

[john h]

There is no question that Josh McCown needs to "be seasoned" a bit longer before he is ready to assume the reins on a full time basis. Some of you consider him to be a wasted proposition right now......but I, for one, consider that as "foolhardy". The poor guy has never had any solid coaching or mentorship by anyone....coaching staff or player.

What Brad Johnson brings is good size (6'5"/225lbs); experience (13 years with Minnesota, Washington and TB) and top ten numbers in every measurable category of meaningful QB statistics (everyone should read his bio on the TB website.......you will be impressed).

He has won a SB and has demonstrated that he is calm and poised under pressure.

He spent 1992-1998 in Minnesota and he knows Green's "system" (still not 100% sure what this is however).

He's 37 (as of next September) he is likely only looking for an opportunity for "one last blast". If he only ends up being a one year tutor for McCown/ Navarre so be it.....he'll have served a worthwhile purpose, a la Emmitt.

He's not going to cost a whole heck of a lot (especially after we net out what King is costing us).

He is the perfect veteran that we need. No one in the draft this year from a QB perspective looks any better to me than McCown. No need to waste a draft pick.........Brad Johnson is the perfect short term solution and just what McCown needs.

Some day if we are ever going to get a QB of the Manning,McNabb caliber we are going to have to draft a QB in the upper round and take our shot. Chances are we will never get one who is someones castoff. A QB remains the most important player on a team and always will be.

 

[JPlay]

Brad Johnson will be the perfect fit here for the next year or two especially to groom our new draft pick QB. Aaron Rodgers, Kyle Orton or Andrew Walter

 

[john h]

how many games did he ever win in Cleveland?

But Brad Johnson is the QB I'd want to bring in. He would help out McCown alot. Brad Johnson is the best veteran Quarterback who has a little something left that is a free agent.

I do not think you bring in any QB to "help" McCown. You bring one in to help win. If a QB coach cannot help McCown by now he may not be able to be helped any further. He apparently does not absorb the help he has got. He is no rookie He is no rookie He is no rookie. We need a QB to replace McCown not compete with him.

 

[john h]

McCown just needs some seasoning? Did you watch the last game of the year? He could not hit an open guy more than 10 yards down the field to save his life. He is the most awful QB I recall seeing in years. If he starts anywhere ever again it will be a pretty telling statement about how little talent there is in the league at QB. McCown just can not see the open guy and deliver the ball while he is open. No seasoning will fix that.

He has had enough seasoning to be well done. I do not think he will ever be a starter in the NFL again. Perhaps a backup here or somewhere. DG is not going to be burned again by a poor QB.

 

[john h]

Did you watch more games than just that one? Seriously it doesn't seem like it. Our Wrs were rarely open and getting seperation was considered a major feat.

He did throw some nice deep passes like the one that set up the GW TD against Miami. Did you forget that one? Oh I'm sorry I'm using examples to go against your point so it doesn't exist, right?

Yes I know, "the grass is always greener on the other side" garbage will never come to an end. I don't know if anybody here that follows that theory actually watches games of other NFL teams because the majority of NFL QBs aren't that good. If we are relying on a guy that had a QB rating of 79.5 in the west coast offense (that is a pathetic mark for a west coast offense QB), we're in deep trouble.

Is Josh the answer? I have absolutely no idea but I find those people that will stay non stop that he sucked on an offense that no QB could've run (no running game, Wrs no seperation, a useless TE that it took our "offensive genius" of an OC 8 weeks to figure out isn't a good blocker, and it took 10 weeks for our Oline to figure out how to pass block) rather unknowledgable. This offense sucked as a whole, not the QB

I do not think the receivers sucked and they were more p------off than anything because we had a QB who could not see them and then not deliver to them if he happened to see them.

 

[Faithful]

Manning threw 26 TD 28 picks as a rookie on a team that was 3-13 the year before and 3-13 his rookie year. He had Faulk of course. 99 they drafted Edgerrin James to replace Faulk and went 13-3, Manning again had 26 TD, only 15 picks, a 91 Passer rating.

There's just no comparison to what Manning was coming in and what Josh is.

Manning is a bad comparison, how many rookie QB's throw 26 TD passes?

Thanks Russ for the info on Manning. I wasn't implying that Josh could be the next P Manning, it was just an example. My point was that we are not giving him a chance, we wanted him great now. I think only Big Ben has been the rookie exception in recent years.

Any thoughts?