Why cant people see that Rosen has little value....to anyone

[bojack]

This idea he has no value is nuts. He has a lot of value to us even if just as a backup. The problem is that the Cards really mismanaged this situation to create bad blood instead of being transparent with him. It sounds like they blew as much smoke up his ass as they did the rest of us. Not a great mgt style and gives more credence that all the ex players who spilled the beans about our crappy front office were not just jilted lovers.

 

[TigToad]

Regardless of how Rosen is perceived by the Cardinals, we screwed up very badly last night.

If the plan was to draft Murray, and it obviously was, we needed to shop Rosen for days, even weeks before the draft. Hearing involved teams saying the first they heard they could get Rosen was last night is the worst kind of incompetence.

Would we have gotten 15 or 17? I doubt it. But, a team is going to go into the draft with a much different philosophy if they know what they'd have to give up to get Rosen. Whether that's a starter desperate team or a team grooming a back-up. We didn't give them that chance. Rosen should have been traded yesterday, and we should have known those options yesterday.

There is no way to get value for Rosen without risking locker room chemistry now (waiting for a training camp injury). This was a badly played move by the front office.

 

[TigToad]

Some of you will come up with anything to deflect the blame from the worst gm in the nfl.

No worse than second worst. Maybe not even third worst.

 

[TigToad]

Exactly what value do you think Rosen had, in terms of draft picks?

Are you saying he has first round value, but Keim overestimated it and asked for even MORE, thus blowing the chance for a 1st rounder?!?

Are you saying he has second round value? In that case, how can you fault Keim for holding out hope for a 1st rounder yesterday, depending on how the draft fell (e.g. Giants taking Haskins, Redskins being unhappy and pulling the trigger on a trade)? And for all we know, he could still fetch a 2nd rounder, so how exactly has Keim screwed up?

Are you saying he has third round value? In that case, how can you fault Keim for holding out for a possible 2nd rounder today, depending on how the draft falls?

I'd love to hear what Keim should've done and how much he could've received for Rosen in a trade, rather than just hearing that he is a dolt who couldn't effect a reasonable trade.

...dbs

If the pick was Murray, he should have started shopping Rosen before the clock started. That would have let the market dictate what he was worth.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

It's funny that everyone on this board expected a 1st for Rosen when nearly all outside sources were saying 2nd, 3rd, or even a 4th.

If Rosen had shown even a shred of evidence that he was good, then this would be different, but Rosen has significant warts.

I never thought they'd get a 1 for Rosen. Established superstars have a hard time garnering a #1 pick.

I could see them getting a late 2nd but more likely a 3rd. That's why I'd have kept Rosen and drafted Bosa/Williams. Keim turned a top 10 pick into a diminished value asset.

 

[THESMEL]

Keep him for when the munchkin gets crunched- then we can get a overall #1 for a new gm to draft

 

[KYCardFan]

Rosen has no value because of Rosen, if somebody wanted him, he would be traded

He is not well perceived throughout the league

 

[Russ Smith]

I never thought they'd get a 1 for Rosen. Established superstars have a hard time garnering a #1 pick.

I could see them getting a late 2nd but more likely a 3rd. That's why I'd have kept Rosen and drafted Bosa/Williams. Keim turned a top 10 pick into a diminished value asset.

Allegedly we're talking to the Dolphins. We want a 1 of course but would take their 2 which is the 48th overall pick, they are probably offering a 3.

If we are right on Murray then it makes sense, if you get a player who gets on the field for Rosen, who wouldn't be on the field, you're better off.

 

[bojack]

If Rosen has no trade value that means we spent a #1 for what could easily be no more than a slight upgrade. Only way this works out is if Murray is great. If Murray is just decent and Rosen plays avg somewhere else it is still an epic draft fail.

 

[Russ Smith]

In hindsight us getting Brett Hundley was probably a signal we were drafting Murray and looking for a backup who had some mobility?

 

[Southpaw]

The Cards are going to get beat up by some team. If Rosen is traded, they are the reason they will get a bag of bubble gum. They made him cheap.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I never thought they'd get a 1 for Rosen. Established superstars have a hard time garnering a #1 pick.

I could see them getting a late 2nd but more likely a 3rd. That's why I'd have kept Rosen and drafted Bosa/Williams. Keim turned a top 10 pick into a diminished value asset.

Right. But that's because you dont like Murray.

If you like Murray, then this is a logical move.

I dont think Q Williams and a replacement level QB is better than a superstar QB. Aaron Donald is nowhere close to as valuable as Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This idea he has no value is nuts. He has a lot of value to us even if just as a backup. The problem is that the Cards really mismanaged this situation to create bad blood instead of being transparent with him. It sounds like they blew as much smoke up his ass as they did the rest of us. Not a great mgt style and gives more credence that all the ex players who spilled the beans about our crappy front office were not just jilted lovers.

But telling Rosen could blow up in your face. What if they decided last minute to draft Williams?

Hes a grown ass man getting paid millions to play a game.

 

[BW52]

Right. But that's because you dont like Murray.

If you like Murray, then this is a logical move.

I dont think Q Williams and a replacement level QB is better than a superstar QB. Aaron Donald is nowhere close to as valuable as Aaron Rodgers.

But you don`t know that Murray is Superstar QB.Hope and speculation.

 

[daves]

I think it is more than fair to say they should have trying to trade him at least a week before the draft. Waiting 10 minutes until our pick or whatever makes no sense.

It was widely suspected that Rosen would be available for the right offer before the draft. Do you really believe that Keim was hanging up on other GMs who called with interest? Here's just one report that it was known Rosen was available for weeks: https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/f...happens-with-rosen.305369/page-3#post-3948600.

Most likely, conditional deals or rough parameters were discussed. Conditional, e.g. from the Cardinals standpoint: "IF we draft Murray at #1, #4, or wherever". Because that wasn't, and couldn't be, certain until right before the draft. Murray had to make it to the draft without being arrested, injured, etc., and he had to agree to a no-baseball clause.

Conditional, e.g. from the other team's standpoint: "IF the guy we really want isn't on the board when our pick comes up, we'd go with plan B and flip a pick for Rosen." Because CLEARLY teams like the Giants and Redskins coveted other players with their #1 picks, more than they coveted Rosen.

Anyone thinking that Keim could've received a #1 pick for Rosen by "aggressively" shopping him before the draft is just stuck on wishful thinking and an over-inflated idea of Rosen's value.

...dave

 

[Krangodnzr]

But you don`t know that Murray is Superstar QB.Hope and speculation.

I dont know that, no. But he is currently the starting QB of the Arizona Cardinals football team.

 

[KYCardFan]

Economics 101 - Fair Market Value is established by others, buyer weighs value, si' or no?

If Miami offers 48, take it and run.

Then trade 33 for another 2nd and 3rd to a desperate, you will end up with 5 picks in first 80of draft.

Go OT, WR, DB and WR or DB (best player on board available at each position). Draft is deep in secondary, real deep.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Exactly what value do you think Rosen had, in terms of draft picks?

Are you saying he has first round value, but Keim overestimated it and asked for even MORE, thus blowing the chance for a 1st rounder?!?

Are you saying he has second round value? In that case, how can you fault Keim for holding out hope for a 1st rounder yesterday, depending on how the draft fell (e.g. Giants taking Haskins, Redskins being unhappy and pulling the trigger on a trade)? And for all we know, he could still fetch a 2nd rounder, so how exactly has Keim screwed up?

Are you saying he has third round value? In that case, how can you fault Keim for holding out for a possible 2nd rounder today, depending on how the draft falls?

I'd love to hear what Keim should've done and how much he could've received for Rosen in a trade, rather than just hearing that he is a dolt who couldn't effect a reasonable trade.

...dbs

I have NEVER been a Keim apologist, but this! All day this.

 

[AZCB34]

Right. But that's because you dont like Murray.

If you like Murray, then this is a logical move.

I dont think Q Williams and a replacement level QB is better than a superstar QB. Aaron Donald is nowhere close to as valuable as Aaron Rodgers.

My argument would be that Aaron Donald/Jared Goff would theoretically equal a Q Williams/Josh Rosen pairing and thus it would successful. I don't have any reason to believe Rosen will be as good as Goff but I wanted Williams and therefore would have kept Rosen.

The problem is Keim had largely ignored one of the best defensive drafts but hoping Murray is transcendent. You believe he is and I think it is possible but we both know there is no guarantee

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think it is more than fair to say they should have trying to trade him at least a week before the draft. Waiting 10 minutes until our pick or whatever makes no sense.

Why? What would those days have done? It’s bit like other teams were surprised by this. I’m sure they considered his value and knew what they were to offer. Do you think the Giants were like “what?!? Josh Rosen is available?!? We hadn’t even thought that. Too little time to decide if we like him or Daniel jones better! Damn cardinals!” Kinda silly thought, no?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Considering that every GM wanting to trade for somebody wants to pay the lowest cost possible and now every GM knows Rosen likely can`t co-exist with KK/Murray the Cards are reduced to recovering pennies on their dollar.IMO GMs realize what a mess last season was and what kind of situation Rosen was in.Other GMs also realize that all they have to do is wait and someone will get Rosen for less because the bridge has been burned in AZ.I firmly believe Rosen will get traded today and end up somewhere with a actual NFL caliber team and do well.I question if it was Murray all along because of the Cards calling all of the top 3 guys yesterday and telling each one they are still in consideration for #1.Murray is the QB now and it is what it is.I don`t like it but so be it.

But that completely ignores the other side of the equation. No team knows what a competitor is willing pay for Rosen. They might know the cards are over a barrel, but if they want him they still have to beat out their competition to get him. If they’re not offering much it’s bc they don’t value him much.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Allegedly we're talking to the Dolphins. We want a 1 of course but would take their 2 which is the 48th overall pick, they are probably offering a 3.

If we are right on Murray then it makes sense, if you get a player who gets on the field for Rosen, who wouldn't be on the field, you're better off.

Give them Rosen and a 6th and a 7th for their 2nd and call it a day.

 

[kerouac9]

I never thought they'd get a 1 for Rosen. Established superstars have a hard time garnering a #1 pick.

I could see them getting a late 2nd but more likely a 3rd. That's why I'd have kept Rosen and drafted Bosa/Williams. Keim turned a top 10 pick into a diminished value asset.

It’s weird. I can understand that mystery and 5 years of cost control could be more interesting than Rosen. But if the Cards can’t get a second from some team who would be paying Rosen $2 million a year for the next three is crazy! $2 million would probably be in the bottom third of backup QB salaries!

Only the cards could have deprecated Rosen into the 60th best QB in 9 months.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But you don`t know that Murray is Superstar QB.Hope and speculation.

As is the case with ANY and EVERY draft pick. Man this is getting funny.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My argument would be that Aaron Donald/Jared Goff would theoretically equal a Q Williams/Josh Rosen pairing and thus it would successful. I don't have any reason to believe Rosen will be as good as Goff but I wanted Williams and therefore would have kept Rosen.

The problem is Keim had largely ignored one of the best defensive drafts but hoping Murray is transcendent. You believe he is and I think it is possible but we both know there is no guarantee

Holy *****! No way Rosen/quinnen equates to Goff/Donald. That’s flat out ridiculous.