Why Can't The Suns Find A Big Man?

[George O'Brien]

I'm not that impressed with what I know of Sean Marks and have no reason to think Burke will get any minutes. So it looks like the Suns are going to play small quite a bit this season unless they make another move.

Amare and KT both weigh about 250, but Diaw is probably no heavier than 225 to 230. Of the other guys likely to get minutes, it is Marion at 225 and Jones who is listed at 215. That is tiny compared to most other teams.

So why don't the Suns get bigger by signing someone or doing a sign and trade deal using their MLE. My guess is that most free agents don't like the idea of averaging under 10 minutes a game, which is the most any FA big is likely to get.

Elson was a real bargain, but the Suns couldn't have worked a sign and trade with Denver even if they had started before the Spurs made their offer. This is because Elson would not have to choose to come to Phoenix. In San Antonio he may start while in Phoenix he'd get a lot DNP's because Amare, KT, and Boris are simply a lot better than he is.

There are some guys on the board who would be nice additions such as Wright, but he wouldn't get the minutes. Perhaps he'd settle for a one year deal if no one calls right before camp (which is after the TE expires), but other than that it seems likely he's waiting for a better situation.

It's easy enough to say that the Suns could have solved this problem by re-signing TT. Perhaps, but if they had, then they would not have been able to sign Banks. (BTW, my guess is that their original game plan was to split their MLE between TT and Lindsay Hunter, while going after Salmons using the TE. If it had worked, it would have been great. It didn't work, but they wanted to have more than vet minimum to get a backup PG)

The best than can be hoped for is that someone with low expectations decides to tag along for a shot at a ring. Anyone who expects more is looking for a lot more playing time that the Suns can offer.

One guy who might be useful and willing at the price is Aaron Williams. He did NADA in Toronto, but was actually useful with the Hornets. He has a reputation for being able to play defense and has a mid range shot.

34 games, 20.4 minutes: 5.8 ppg on 51.7% and 4.9 rpg.

 

[green machine]

Because big men don't grow on trees, especially ones that can really fit this offense. You are right that 10 mins a game is probably not appealing, and unless the big man can shoot and pass, that's probably all he would get.

 

[krispydude]

because decent big men want 7-10 mil a year

 

[Azlen]

because decent big men want 7-10 mil a year

Even not so decent big men want 7-10 mil a year.

 

[Gaddabout]

My late friend Hal dated hundreds of women between 1988 and 2000. Many of them were gorgeous with lots of appealing personal qualities, but none of them were perfect. Hal died in a car wreck in 2000 in a one-car accident, on the way home from another lonely night at the club in his failed search for the perfect woman.

All of man's history will end before the Suns find a legitimate center D'Antoni won't be bashful about playing.

 

[Errntknght]

I think the TT episode puts it all in a nutshell. Bigs come at a price premium and the Suns are not willing to pay it. I was flabbergasted when they balked at 21 mil for Tim then turned around and offered Salmons more than that. Thank goodness he turned us down and we got Banks, who may well help the team more than TT would have. At least, he patches a major hole in the overall scheme of things while TT wouldn't have - though injuries to our frontcourt are much more likely to cause big problems without him.

I'm going to be upbeat about Marks until I see how he plays. The one thing he seems to be able to do well is shoot jumpers in the 17-20 foot range and that may be just enough - as long as he can shoot relatively quick. If his man can play 8 feet off him and still bother his shot, he's not going to be much help. Who knows, he may be able to make sophisticated plays - like heading to the rim when his defender leaves him to help.

I haven't totally given up on Burke. Its possible that D'Antoni will assign some assistant the job of beating Pat about the head and shoulders until he gets himself into shape. A remotely controlled cattle prod permanently embedded someplace in his body would be nice, too, but thats probably outlawed by the CBA.

 

[Joe Mama]

What was the Phoenix Suns' frontcourt rotation last year again?

Joe

 

[Folster]

What was the Phoenix Suns' frontcourt rotation last year again?

Joe

(Crickets chirping)

 

[Errntknght]

Which game?

I was just thinking who started for us at SF at the very beginning of the year... Jimmy Jackson? After a few games I know D'Antoni inserted James Jones, which lasted about three weeks then Diaw started at PF and Shawn slid over.

 

[Nasser22]

So...do you think we'll get anyone or do you think Sarver was serious when he said the Suns were done...

 

[hsandhu]

It's not sarver it's d'antoni. He is so narrow minded sometimes, and wouldn't want a guy like elson because he has no offense. But he needs to realize sometimes you have to sacrifice some offense for defense.

 

[Nasser22]

I read the article and it said Robert Sarver but it's probably both. We need someone. Any decent FA's available that would sign cheap?

 

[Cheesebeef]

what article are you guys referring to about Sarver?

 

[Nasser22]

I was talking about the one 2 days ago in the East Valley Tribune. "Suns Done Shopping"

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's not sarver it's d'antoni. He is so narrow minded sometimes, and wouldn't want a guy like elson because he has no offense. But he needs to realize sometimes you have to sacrifice some offense for defense.

Reminds me of the old Life Cereal commercial.

You gonna try out that big man?
I'm not going to, you have him try out?

I know, let's get Mikey, he hates all big men.

 

[Mainstreet]

My late friend Hal dated hundreds of women between 1988 and 2000. Many of them were gorgeous with lots of appealing personal qualities, but none of them were perfect. Hal died in a car wreck in 2000 in a one-car accident, on the way home from another lonely night at the club in his failed search for the perfect woman.

All of man's history will end before the Suns find a legitimate center D'Antoni won't be bashful about playing.

Gaddabout, I think you hit the nail on the head. The Suns missed coined flips for Kareem and David Robinson and are unlikely to be in position to get the perfect center again (at least for a long time). They did get Amare, who if healthy, is near that category.

I think the Suns should add a banger to their bench even if D'Antoni does not want to play him. I think the sports writer (I believe in the East Valley Tribune) got it partially right that the Suns need to add a physical player like Reggie Evans that can rebound on the offensive and defensive glass when the Suns have trouble running.

I know the Suns would likely not play this type of player much during the regular season, but I think in the playoffs, when rebounds become a premium, he could earn his keep... warts and all. The Suns will need to make stops in the playoffs and not allow the opposing team repeated shots at the basket. IMO, the Suns frequently played good defense only to give second and third shots to their opponents because they could not rebound.

In the playoffs, I think the Suns are going to be playing alot in the half court again. If they are not able to pound the ball inside with Amare, the Suns will have to shoot over a packed defense. The Suns need someone who can rebound the ball both on offense and defense. They also need insurance for injury.

If I were the Suns I would be looking for a somewhat mobile 4/5 that can hopefully play some decent defense and rebound. I'm not looking for a star player here, only someone who can be had for a reasonable salary. In previous threads I have thrown out the names of players that might be able to do this on the cheap such as Fizer and Baxter. I have also heard the names of other players such as Massenburg, Wright, Cato. I'm aware some of these players cannot be had or are too expensive, but I think there will be some player the Suns can get that will fulfill a need for another physical presence inside (even if he is not a great shooter).

I'd like to have such a player on the roster even if D'Antoni is reluctant to play him now. I think sooner or later he will see the light. Undersized PF's seem to have the largest pool of talent from whom to select, but if they can rebound, I don't care.

The Suns also have the TE and picks to use to acquire perhaps a better player than what I envision.

 

[F-Dog]

Why Can't The Suns Find A Big Man?

1 year, $1.5 million, is why, and a hole to fill that's perilously close to being third-string. They'll probably wind up picking someone from among the scraps available at the end of FA.



As for the doom and gloom...I want the Suns to acquire another big as much as anybody, but let's remember what the Suns currently have at PF and C:

--young, second-team All-NBA center
--up-and-coming All-Star caliber PF/C
--former All-Star PF, still in the prime of his career
--solid $8m veteran big man, just to round things out

And, if you think the Suns need even more help at the power spots, they'll almost certainly be adding another big man with the high first-round pick they'll have in next year's draft.


I think I'll wait until Christmas at least before shifting into full panic mode.

 

[George O'Brien]

If they stay healthy, the Suns are fine during the regular season. Even if they lose one guy, they'll survive. Marion hates playing PF, but the team won 62 games with him at PF.

I'm not convinced the Suns can win the championship losing more than one guy. The way the playoffs are officiated makes it hard to win entirely on small ball. However, it is not clear there is anyone who could make a difference if the Suns lost Amare or KT or Boris with the cap space they have available.

The NBA is unlike any other team sport. One guy can completely change the game. Stars in football or baseball need a very strong collection of players to have any chance to make an impact. In basketball, one guy can turn a lottery team into a contender in one year. Witness what Nash did.

The same goes in the other direction. Without Dirk, the Mavs are lower tier playoff team. Same with Brand and the Clippers. Without Duncan, the Spurs probably don't make the playoffs.

It's a testimony to D'Antoni's brilliance that the Suns went as far as they did without a man none of us would trade for any of those three.

 

[NastyOne]

I really hope they take a look at Scot Pollard, and see if he would play for the Vet Min.He brings energy to the court and the bench.

I've loved the way hes played the game since his days with the Kings.

 

[Mainstreet]

If they stay healthy, the Suns are fine during the regular season. Even if they lose one guy, they'll survive. Marion hates playing PF, but the team won 62 games with him at PF.

It's one thing to play Shawn Marion at PF if the Suns want too (because of favorable matchups and to speed up the game) than if they have too. However, in the playoffs (in a half-court game), the Suns will be totally outmuscled and likely have to play against superior height which is a very serious problem if Shawn is our PF.

A 100% healthy Stoudemire may help, for example, if KT goes down but the Suns desperately need another role 4/5 that can at least bang for rebounds in a half-court set. I like a little margin for error if the Suns are going to win a Championship some day. I just do not see Marks or Burke being able to contribute in such a situation and James Jones is not a center or PF.

I can just envision the opposing teams crashing the boards at will if the Suns are short at the 4/5 like they did last year in the playoffs. Amare can be the difference maker but I do not want to put such a heavy load or expectations on his shoulders just yet.

I'm not asking the Suns to get a star at the 4/5 for depth, just a role player that can rebound even if he is an undersized PF. The Suns should be able to achieve this goal even if he is not a great shooter. D'Antoni can let him set during the regular season if he must, but I'm sure in a half-court set in the playoffs (barring injury), he will see some time when rebounding is at a premium.

 

[Ryanwb]

You gonna try out that big man?
I'm not going to, you have him try out?

I know, let's get Mikey, he hates all big men.

This is just sick....

 

[Mainstreet]

This is just sick....

Agreed.

Even when Burke got playing time last year at garbage time the fans would encourage him to shoot the ball outside and he would... with no discouragement from D'Antoni. I know Burke is a fairly good outside shooter, but D'Antoni should have been yelling at Burke to play inside for easy buckets and put backs... not practicing his outside shot.

I think if D'Antoni would encourage Burke to crash the boards and play inside a little (especially at garbage time) he might be of some use in the playoffs.

There is a time and a place where a good rebounder can help the Suns even if he is not the best outside shooter.

 

[nowagimp]

It's a testimony to D'Antoni's brilliance that the Suns went as far as they did without a man none of us would trade for any of those three.

Yeah, but he is Brilliant in a "narrow minded" kind of way. We must sound like spoiled fans to fans of teams that cant even win in the playoffs. The "open minded" PJ and POP did not make it to the WCF last year. I have to keep reminding myself that almost no one wanted the suns acquisitions after the loss of JJ to the hawks. Most around the league thought we overpaid for Raja and Boris was a dud. Who wanted eddie house? And TT was a malcontent when we picked him up last spring. Only a narrow minded(?) coach could see that these guys would be usable players in a team to challenge for the western conference title..

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, but he is Brilliant in a "narrow minded" kind of way. We must sound like spoiled fans to fans of teams that cant even win in the playoffs. The "open minded" PJ and POP did not make it to the WCF last year. I have to keep reminding myself that almost no one wanted the suns acquisitions after the loss of JJ to the hawks. Most around the league thought we overpaid for Raja and Boris was a dud. Who wanted eddie house? And TT was a malcontent when we picked him up last spring. Only a narrow minded(?) coach could see that these guys would be usable players in a team to challenge for the western conference title..

IMO, D'Antoni is a brilliant coach, evaluator of talent and getting the most out of the players he has, except I think he tends to dwindle his rotation players too much as the season progresses.

I really think D'Antoni just should be told he must have one legitimate banger/rebounder/or shot blocker at the end of his bench for the playoffs... even if he is not a good outside shooter. Kinda like telling a kid he must take his cod liver oil.

 

[nowagimp]

IMO, D'Antoni is a brilliant coach, evaluator of talent and getting the most out of the players he has, except I think he tends to dwindle his rotation players too much as the season progresses.
.

I think that decision making and matchup defficiencies are the reasons why the rotation dwindles, all coaches do the same thing. DAntoni learned in the playoffs that he could not play House and LB in the backcourt at the same time(size and ball handling problems). He also learned that when JR's shot went, it was gone and he was an ideal guy for the opposition to bouble off of. At one time or the other many suns were inconsistent due to phychological or injury effects and THAT reduces the rotations. The suns dont need a big stiff to screw up spacing on the floor in the offensive sets. If everybody esle shot the 3 well, 1 stiff wouldnt be so bad. Problem is that Marion, Diaw, KThomas, dont shoot the 3 well and Amare and JR may not shoot it well. Adding a big stiff will collapse the defense further.

I expect this suns team to run better, but the jury is out on spacing with the loss of House, TT and additions of Amare, KT ,Banks. Running can be prevented in the playoffs with "all out D" the players are not willing to play in the regular season. Spacing will be important and Leo will have a big role to play there with the departures of House, TT. Everyone of course knows, that if Amare is behaving like Tigger, spacing will be much improved.