Why Can't We Have CB Success Like This?

[Doug]

http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=bio&player_id=575

5-10 177LB UDFA CB starter with major contributions and a SuperBowl.

http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=bio&player_id=563

Jerraud Powers 5-10 192LB's late 3rd round draft pick last year and Major starting and Rookie contributions in a SuperBowl year.

http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=bio&player_id=618

Kevin Thomas USC late 3RD round CB in 2010 Draft .

http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=bio&player_id=623


http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=bio&player_id=455

Ray Fisher 5-9 185 7TH Round draft pick 2010 & Melvin Bullit 6-1 201 LBS UDFA 07 and a great replacement for Oft injured Bob Sanders at such a small size and leading a team of young DB's to the Super Bowl.

Is it coaching? Is it luck? Is it pure draft intelligence as such small young unfrafted or late round 3rd rounders seem to contribute right away for this team in a very tough division and passing Conference to get to the SuperBowl.

These guys are pretty smallish for all of the success right as they join the team.

Is it the two top pass rushers in the league in Freeney and Mathis that have all of the youth succeeding on a team like this along with facing Manning in practice everyday?

We can forget sweating the McFadden cut with our Sophmore CB pick in Toler along with our two young pickups with an upside late on day 3 of this years draft.The colts are proof that the very small youth CAN contribute right away.

WHY CAN'T WE?

 

[juza76]

never say never...maybe a.j jefferson can be succesfull in his rooking season

 

[Duckjake]

never say never...maybe a.j jefferson can be succesfull in his rooking season

With the Cardinals you can almost say never. I don't think they've had two really good Corners at the same time since the 1970s when Miller Farr and Roger Werhli played together.

Same thing for the Safety position. Other than maybe a couple of years with Lonnie Young and Tim McDonald you have to go back to the days of Jerry Stovall and Larry Wilson to find the Cards with two quality safeties on the field together for more than one season.

Meanwhile the Cards have been able to put at least two quality WRs on the field together almost every season.

 

[Buckybird]

With the Cardinals you can almost say never. I don't think they've had two really good Corners at the same time since the 1970s when Miller Farr and Roger Werhli played together.

I met Farr inside the HOF a fews years back when Wehrli was inducted into the HOF.

BTW Duck, the combo's of Werhi/Thompson & Werhi/Allen weren't to bad & could have been dynamic had we not given away Pat Fischer to the Skins.

 

[juza76]

With the Cardinals you can almost say never. I don't think they've had two really good Corners at the same time since the 1970s when Miller Farr and Roger Werhli played together.

Same thing for the Safety position. Other than maybe a couple of years with Lonnie Young and Tim McDonald you have to go back to the days of Jerry Stovall and Larry Wilson to find the Cards with two quality safeties on the field together for more than one season.

Meanwhile the Cards have been able to put at least two quality WRs on the field together almost every season.

in the last 2 years a lot of things changed for cardinals..is a much better organization right now...about the safeties i think right now we have the best duo..rhodes and wilson

 

[kerouac9]

Doug--

If you want to know the answer to your question, look no further than the defensive linemen with the horseshoes on their helmets. With a great pass rush, any cornerback is going to look good. The problem with the Cards is that they haven't had a consistent pass rushing specialist since Bertrand Berry's one magical season and before that Simeon Rice.

If Joey Porter can get 11 sacks this year, you'll see DRC and Toler looking VERY good.

With the Cardinals you can almost say never. I don't think they've had two really good Corners at the same time since the 1970s when Miller Farr and Roger Werhli played together.

Same thing for the Safety position. Other than maybe a couple of years with Lonnie Young and Tim McDonald you have to go back to the days of Jerry Stovall and Larry Wilson to find the Cards with two quality safeties on the field together for more than one season.

Meanwhile the Cards have been able to put at least two quality WRs on the field together almost every season.

I though that Robert Griffith and Adrian Wilson were a pretty good safety tandem. That 2005 defense was 8th in the NFL, 12th in pass defense.

 

[Doug]

K-9 I did mention Freeney and Mathis but teams even devised plans to take them out and these rookies still held up all the way to the SB.

I want this same success.

 

[Duckjake]

Doug--

If you want to know the answer to your question, look no further than the defensive linemen with the horseshoes on their helmets. With a great pass rush, any cornerback is going to look good. The problem with the Cards is that they haven't had a consistent pass rushing specialist since Bertrand Berry's one magical season and before that Simeon Rice.

If Joey Porter can get 11 sacks this year, you'll see DRC and Toler looking VERY good.



I though that Robert Griffith and Adrian Wilson were a pretty good safety tandem. That 2005 defense was 8th in the NFL, 12th in pass defense.

I thought Griffith and Wilson were good too but they really regressed in 2006 and the pass defense was even better in '04 with Ohalete at FS with an opponents QB rating of 73.2 and finished 9th in yards and 7th in NetYPA.

Opponents ypa jumped from 6.79 to 7.5 and the passer rating went from 80.6 to 85.4. Of course the entire team went in the tank after blowing the Bears game so it is really hard to use stats from that season for anything meaningful.

 

[football karma]

to second k-9 and further the thought:

1. They are helped by an excellent pass rush
2. They play tampa -2-- almost all zone with a LB dropping into coverage.
3. They are helped by a prolific offense that puts pressure on opposing offenses to take risks and abandon the run run early

 

[Goldfield]

Is it the two top pass rushers in the league in Freeney and Mathis that have all of the youth succeeding on a team like this along with facing Manning in practice everyday?

YES

 

[Shzm13]

Doug--

If you want to know the answer to your question, look no further than the defensive linemen with the horseshoes on their helmets. With a great pass rush, any cornerback is going to look good. The problem with the Cards is that they haven't had a consistent pass rushing specialist since Bertrand Berry's one magical season and before that Simeon Rice.

QFT

 

[PaulW]

I believe that the trio of Wilson, Rhodes and the re-energized Johnson will proof to be one of the best Safety groups in the league for the next few years. With Wilson playing more in the "box", the corners will be improved; and having Johnson covering the deep zone will also improve the corners. This is not even discussing the much improved pass rush wih Porter and Schofield.

 

[Buckybird]

This is not even discussing the much improved pass rush wih Porter and Schofield.

Chances are Shofield doesn't even see the field in 2010.

 

[JeffGollin]

I'm guessing that CB success relies on sets of factors (& no single magic formula).

Four factors come to mind: (1) defensive scheme, (2) how well the CB plays within the scheme, (3) how good the supporting cast is and (4) how good the coaching/development of young players is.

Colt corners are successful within the context of (as I understand to be) a Cover Two defensive scheme. It may take a different kind of CB to play corner in that system than in other schemes.

More aggressive defenses - like the Ravens, Jets and (I believe) the Cardinals rely more on corners who are good at man-coverage. DRC fits the profile as do (as I see it) Toler and Jefferson. McFadden didn't. He's back in the Iron City.

For the Cardinals, I believe our success at corner will depend on our ability to stock our cupboard with 4 DRC clones - starting with great athletes and coaching them up to know how to cover and motivating them to be aggressive in coverage. While taking some of the pressure off them by simultaneously, putting people in opposing QB's faces.

 

[Treefiddy]

K-9 I did mention Freeney and mathis but teams even devised plans to take them out and these rookies still held up all the way to the SB.

I want this same success.

Yeah, but plans to keep Freeney and Mathis held back still create a shorter field for the secondary because it creates less resistance for the other pass rushers, or eliminates potential receivers since they're throwing extra guys to protection.

Getting to the QB fast and on a consistent basis will always make the secondary look amazing.

 

[WarnerHOF]

Not every GM can be as talented as Bill Polian.

 

[187]

Take away the Colts fierce pass rush and tell me how good they look.

 

[Duckjake]

to second k-9 and further the thought:

1. They are helped by an excellent pass rush
2. They play tampa -2-- almost all zone with a LB dropping into coverage.
3. They are helped by a prolific offense that puts pressure on opposing offenses to take risks and abandon the run run early

It looks to me like the Colts emphasis is on pass defense and they do so at the expense of the run D. Since 2004 they have finished 24,16,32,15,24,and 25th in the league in rushing yards allowed. Pass: 14,5,2,2,15,28

Another interesting stat: Team total sacks combined for the last 4 seasons (from profootball-reference.com):

Colts 115 Cards 147 The Cards had more QB sacks every season.

 

[Buckybird]

It looks to me like the Colts emphasis is on pass defense and they do so at the expense of the run D. Since 2004 they have finished 24,16,32,15,24,and 25th in the league in rushing yards allowed. Pass: 14,5,2,2,15,28

Another interesting stat: Team total sacks combined for the last 4 seasons (from profootball-reference.com):

Colts 115 Cards 147 The Cards had more QB sacks every season.

Duck, it's not always about the end result. Freeney & Mathis put so much pressure off the edges...you & me know we haven't had that kind of outside pass rush from both sides since the days of Al Baker & Curtis Greer.

 

[jw7]

CB is one of the toughest positions to fill next to QB and LT.

But you know, it was not that long ago that we put only one player in the pro-bowl - Scott Player, and FAs would just laugh at the Cards and use them as a bargaining chip.

We hit one with DRC, we REALLY hit the WR position, and we have some really good players on defense even though not everyone makes the pro-bowl.

If this is the biggest complaint, I feel good about the team.

 

[Duckjake]

CB is one of the toughest positions to fill next to QB and LT.

But you know, it was not that long ago that we put only one player in the pro-bowl - Scott Player, and FAs would just laugh at the Cards and use them as a bargaining chip.

We hit one with DRC, we REALLY hit the WR position, and we have some really good players on defense even though not everyone makes the pro-bowl.

If this is the biggest complaint, I feel good about the team.

The Cards have always hit the WR position. Even in their worst seasons they've had WRs that produced. Like Boldin in 2003 and Boston and Sanders in 2000 who combined for 125 catches for 1,905 yards and 13 TDs on a team that had a starting QB with a 66 passer rating, only scored 210 points, and finished 3-13.

Sonny Randle, Bobby Joe Conrad, Mel Gray, Roy Green,Pat Tilley, JT Smith, David Boston, Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald all selected to the pro bowl.

Since Roger Werhli was last selected in 1979, Robert Massey, in 1992, was the only Cardinal CB not named Aeneas Williams to be selected to the pro bowl until DRC.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I advocated taking powers last year...