Why did the Mavs trade for Walker?!

[slinslin]

Kobe is not selfish.

He is a star and plays on the perimeter. What he does is try to take over games which is what all great guards do.
Watch Kobe play, he creates so much for his teammates and he doesn't do it by dominating the basketball as much as certain players that were regarded as "not selfish enough" on these boards when a lot of them were calling them hogs before they came here.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Chaplin

I just cannot for the life of me see any justification for someone not being excited about the hypothetical signing of Kobe Bryant. The only thing I can think of is just because they don't like the guy personally. And frankly, that is a weak and naive stance to take unless you don't care about championships.

OK. I'm all for acquiring Kobe Bryant. I think if he was the only piece to the puzzle they added this summer he would put the Phoenix Suns back in the playoffs and fighting for home-court advantage. That said, I think you are going a bit overboard here Chap. It is neither "weak nor naïve" to be against signing Kobe Bryant because you don't like him for personal reasons. He's a controversial figure for sure.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
OK. I'm all for acquiring Kobe Bryant. I think if he was the only piece to the puzzle they added this summer he would put the Phoenix Suns back in the playoffs and fighting for home-court advantage. That said, I think you are going a bit overboard here Chap. It is neither "weak nor naïve" to be against signing Kobe Bryant because you don't like him for personal reasons. He's a controversial figure for sure.

Joe Mama

Overboard my arse.

Do you want a championship or not? Isn't that the ONLY question we should be asking?

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by Chaplin
And frankly, that is a weak and naive stance to take unless you don't care about championships.

I think you're the naive one. Arrogant, too, to think that your opinions have so much more value than anybody else's.

Why should championships be at the top of my list of rooting priorities? They're not even at the top of your list, or you wouldn't be rooting for the Suns in the first place.



BTW, I love the Malone remarks--'of course I wouldn't defend him, the Suns don't need him!'

I can understand your arguments but don't agree with them; I can see you don't understand mine, for whatever reason...

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by F-Dog
I think you're the naive one. Arrogant, too, to think that your opinions have so much more value than anybody else's.

Why should championships be at the top of my list of rooting priorities? They're not even at the top of your list, or you wouldn't be rooting for the Suns in the first place.

Don't be a moron. This post proves you have no idea what I'm talking about. You have yet to prove why not having Kobe Bryant will help us get to a championship.

If you are calling me a bandwagonner, fine. Your lame inference that I should be a Laker fan because "all I care about is Championships" is stupid. I love the Suns, and my goal is for the PHOENIX SUNS to win the NBA CHAMPIONSHIP. Period. End of discussion. My question, then, is WHY you don't think that goal is the priority?

My point was, and I'll explain it to you again, is that as a Suns fan, the main goal of the team, of Jerry C., of Mike D'Antoni, of Mark West, heck, of Al McCoy even, is to WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. Will this Suns team with Kobe Bryant be closer to that goal--or will we be closer to that goal without him? I say that if we had Kobe, we would be MUCH, much closer. Now, please tell me how you can refute that.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I say that if we had Kobe, we would be MUCH, much closer. Now, please tell me how you can refute that.

It isn't really a case of being much closer to a championship. It is about actually contending for one.

What I mean was with Stephon we were closer to a championship than we are now.

And if we sign Camby, Okur. Dampier ect. we will be closer than we are now.

However, if we sign Kobe, we are contenders for the next decade. This isn't a one year fix like the Lakers did with Malone and Payton. We are talking about a good 8-10 years.

Why should championships be at the top of my list of rooting priorities? They're not even at the top of your list, or you wouldn't be rooting for the Suns in the first place.

This has to be one of the most foolish comments I have read. He doesn't want a team to win a championship. He wants the suns to win a championship. Above all else, that is what is important. That is why he, like myself, are pushing so much for Kobe. Despite his personality, and off court problems, we realize he is the one player available that can make our dream a success.

 

[F-Dog]

OK, last try.

Originally posted by Chaplin
If you are calling me a bandwagonner, fine. Your lame inference that I should be a Laker fan because "all I care about is Championships" is stupid. I love the Suns, and my goal is for the PHOENIX SUNS to win the NBA CHAMPIONSHIP. Period. End of discussion. My question, then, is WHY you don't think that goal is the priority?

My implication was exactly the opposite--that you're not a bandwagon fan. The question I'm asking you is, why are you rooting for the Atlanta Hawks of the West when the Lakers are right down the street?

IMO the answer is that rooting for the Lakers would be less fun and satisfying for you than rooting for the Suns, even though the Lakers are infinitely more likely to win a championship this year. It's not enough for you to root for a champion; you want the PHOENIX SUNS to win the NBA CHAMPIONSHIP. Period. End of discussion.


Well, guess what? What you want isn't the same thing that I want. I want the PHOENIX SUNS to win the NBA CHAMPIONSHIP with PLAYERS I CAN STAND TO ROOT FOR. Period. End of discussion.

And, guess what else? What I want is just as important (and just as arbitrary) as what you want.



I guess if I wanted to refute your claim that pursuing Kobe is the team's surest path to glory, I could try. I certainly don't think that adding Kobe means that the Suns have a great shot at a championship any time in the near future, which you seem to believe.

The thing is, the issue of "Kobe = Championship" is not that important to me. If Kobe signs with the Suns, I don't really care whether they win a championship or not.


Understand?



Yeah, I thought not.

BTW, why did the Mavs trade for Walker again...?

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
This has to be one of the most foolish comments I have read. He doesn't want a team to win a championship. He wants the suns to win a championship. Above all else, that is what is important. That is why he, like myself, are pushing so much for Kobe. Despite his personality, and off court problems, we realize he is the one player available that can make our dream a success.

"I agree with Chaplin" would have been more concise, and implied fewer errors in logic on your part.

 

[George O'Brien]

What does this have to do with why the Mavs traded for Walker? See I think they knew that Raef LaFrentz was certain to get injured and got rid of him while they could.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by F-Dog
OK, last try.



My implication was exactly the opposite--that you're not a bandwagon fan. The question I'm asking you is, why are you rooting for the Atlanta Hawks of the West when the Lakers are right down the street?

IMO the answer is that rooting for the Lakers would be less fun and satisfying for you than rooting for the Suns, even though the Lakers are infinitely more likely to win a championship this year. It's not enough for you to root for a champion; you want the PHOENIX SUNS to win the NBA CHAMPIONSHIP. Period. End of discussion.


Well, guess what? What you want isn't the same thing that I want. I want the PHOENIX SUNS to win the NBA CHAMPIONSHIP with PLAYERS I CAN STAND TO ROOT FOR. Period. End of discussion.

And, guess what else? What I want is just as important (and just as arbitrary) as what you want.



I guess if I wanted to refute your claim that pursuing Kobe is the team's surest path to glory, I could try. I certainly don't think that adding Kobe means that the Suns have a great shot at a championship any time in the near future, which you seem to believe.

The thing is, the issue of "Kobe = Championship" is not that important to me. If Kobe signs with the Suns, I don't really care whether they win a championship or not.


Understand?



Yeah, I thought not.

BTW, why did the Mavs trade for Walker again...?

Way to make it personal. I respect you SO much more now.

 

[Errntknght]

It would be an interesting experiment to get Kobe on the Suns - the experiment being to determine just how far can a team go without a coach. We'd need a center to make it a good test... Vlade would taint the result because he's too much like a coach, so he's out. Camby would be about right if he could stay healthy for a season. Well, we'd have to sort that out later....

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Way to make it personal. I respect you SO much more now.

You're kidding, right? I mean by implying that he is the one to start making things personal here.

Joe

 

[cardsunsfan]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
What does this have to do with why the Mavs traded for Walker? See I think they knew that Raef LaFrentz was certain to get injured and got rid of him while they could.

I guess my topic kind of got off track

Actually who we use to win a championship is important to me.
I don't want Shaq even though he might be able to win a championship with us. To me he's really boring...

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
You're kidding, right? I mean by implying that he is the one to start making things personal here.

Joe

There's a surprising post.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by SunCardfan
I guess my topic kind of got off track

Actually who we use to win a championship is important to me.
I don't want Shaq even though he might be able to win a championship with us. To me he's really boring...

Walker is a classic example of the challenge that confronts NBA coaches. Here is a fantastically talented player who won't stay within the offense enough. If he plays down low, he is a legitimate all star. When he goes outside to shoot jump shots, he hurts his team a lot. That's why he was traded from Boston for less talented players.

It was the Suns bad luck that Walker played more inside than usual in Phoenix. If by some fluke Nelson convinces him to buy into the team concept, the Mavs could be a legiimate championship contender. If he doesn't, they would be lucky to get into the second round.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Why don't they just force him to be an inside guy? Can they fine him for every three pointer he takes? lol... I guess the players association wouldn't agree with that. I still don't understand why you can't get a player to do what is best for the team.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by SunCardfan
Why don't they just force him to be an inside guy? Can they fine him for every three pointer he takes? lol... I guess the players association wouldn't agree with that. I still don't understand why you can't get a player to do what is best for the team.

There are innumerable trades made because the player just won't listen and has a zillion year guarenteed contract.

The Suns young players have the excuse of youth and ignorance. If you have to think about it, then it is too late.

But how can you explain Howard Eisley? He has been around long enough to know how to play, yet his decision making is awful. Against the Mavs he took four shots in six minutes -- all threes and all misses. About all D'Antoni can do is just sit in the Gugliotta memorial space at the end of the bench and be done with it.

 

[elindholm]

If the Suns get the #1 overall pick, they really might want to consider offering that pick and Eisley (and cash?) to Charlotte for the #4. I don't know whether Charlotte would do that. But for the Suns to have to put up with Eisley's contract for two more full years is going to be very painful.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm
If the Suns get the #1 overall pick, they really might want to consider offering that pick and Eisley (and cash?) to Charlotte for the #4.

I'm almost completely sure that Suns would do this deal.
Maybe-maybe CHA would too.

 

[George O'Brien]

The #1 for #4 to move Eisley is an interesting option, but I really doubt Brian would do it. Unless Okafor is slowed down by his back injury, he will be a real stud in the NBA and Howard could be a superstar. It is like the question of giving away a #5, it only makes sense if the Suns are very sure they can get Kobe. Otherwise it is a PR disaster.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by elindholm
If the Suns get the #1 overall pick, they really might want to consider offering that pick and Eisley (and cash?) to Charlotte for the #4. I don't know whether Charlotte would do that. But for the Suns to have to put up with Eisley's contract for two more full years is going to be very painful.

IMO there's no way Charlotte would make ideal in this draft. We'll get a better feel for things as the draft approaches, but that would involve Charlotte spending at least $10 million. That is a lot of money to pay to move up three spots in the draft. It's possible though. If it was anything less than the #1 I think Phoenix would have to just fork over the draft pick and Eisley without getting a pick in return.

Joe Mama