Why do so many fans hate Hedo?

[Chaplin]

Play Warrick and Hill. Leave Hedo on the bench until he decides he wants to produce.

Geez, of course you would say that. Like Gentry has no responsibility here? Come on now. Hedo has said he'd go to the bench if he was told to.

And I love Grant Hill, but again, he was useless last night and all through preseason. Why aren't you jumping all over him? Wouldn't it conceivably be better with Hedo or even Jared Dudley playing that starting role instead?

 

[Chaplin]

I am not there yet but man I keep this guy on a short leash. If you factor in his spiral down last season.....if he doesn't show up early, you have to bench him.

He's playing a position he doesn't like in a system that isn't taking advantage of his skillset. What is he supposed to do? This is all on Gentry. He's too busy complaining about not having Amare anymore that he can't figure out how to utilize the personnel he has.

 

[BC867]

As a second unit center he can at least hopefully draw out the opposing center on offense and at least have a chance of staying with a slower player. I'm sure Hedo and most fans do not want him to carry the label as a "center" so he can still be called a forward or whatever.

What about the other half of the game -- defense?

He doesn't have the power to be a Power Forward, so move him to Center? Ouch!

But then, in Game 1, Nash was playing defensive Forward. Steve is a brilliant offensive Point Guard, but it pains me to use the words "defensive" or "Forward" in a sentence about him. Just as it pains me to read about Hedo and the words "Center" or "Power Forward".

 

[Chaplin]

What about the other half of the game -- defense?

He doesn't have the power to be a Power Forward, so move him to Center? Ouch!

But then, in Game 1, Nash was playing defensive Forward. Steve is a brilliant offensive Point Guard, but it pains me to use the words "defensive" or "Forward" in a sentence about him. Just as it pains me to read about Hedo and the words "Center" or "Power Forward".

This has been something Nash has done for YEARS. Andre Miller, who is more of a scorer and a bruiser down low is an even WORSE matchup for Nash. So you hide him on the best option, and that is Batum. Batum had a good night and Nash got tired. But don't start complaining that this is the first you've ever seen of this. Against certain teams, including during every game during the 1st round of the playoffs last season, he was put on a different player than the opposing point guard. Do you not remember?

 

[Vellasco]

He's playing a position he doesn't like in a system that isn't taking advantage of his skillset. What is he supposed to do? This is all on Gentry. He's too busy complaining about not having Amare anymore that he can't figure out how to utilize the personnel he has.

My impressions after 1s game:

I think Hedo as starting 4 will struggle throughout the season and be like 7/4/2 stat guy under current system. If we consider his contract (2nd most i guess) he will be target no 1 of Suns fans and his NBA career will continue to decline. (Poor Hedo!)

Chap, even if you send Hill to bench and take Hedo to 3, he performs same as he did in Toronto (may be worst than there cuz seems R'n Gun style is not suited for him, plus Nash is more ball dominant guy than Calderon). Even if Gentry draws some sets for him at 3, he will never get his rhythm he get used to in Orlando and can hit max 10/4/4. Its still low considering contract-stat-effect trio.

I know taking maximum from a player and filling gaps from some of the player's skill sets are two different things. I think only way to take max from Hedo is sending him to 2nd unit, sign a true center and draw suitable sets for Dragic/Dudley/Hedo/Frye/Dampier? fives.

PS:: Sorry for my broken English.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Don't apologize for your English; it's a lot better than some of us Americans who post on internet message boards.

 

[Covert Rain]

He's playing a position he doesn't like in a system that isn't taking advantage of his skillset. What is he supposed to do? This is all on Gentry. He's too busy complaining about not having Amare anymore that he can't figure out how to utilize the personnel he has.

Well...I think it's possible what your saying is true but he played plenty of SF last year and looked horrible. I guess only time will tell even if we switch him to SF.

 

[Chaplin]

Well...I think it's possible what your saying is true but he played plenty of SF last year and looked horrible. I guess only time will tell even if we switch him to SF.

True, but if you want to give him a chance to get back to his Orlando form, you can't do it by playing him at the PF position. At least at SF you can utilize his skills better.

 

[Errntknght]

He[Hill] was very ineffective last night as a starter. It's too early to blame it on age but it's worth watching. Regardless, we have too many options at the same position to allow him to remain with the starters simply because he's struggled off the bench in the past.

Not so. Like last year in the playoffs, Gentry had Grant defending Andre Miller, which he did well. The minute Miller had someone else on him - Dragic, IIRC - he bulldozed him right to the bucket. If you'd bothered to watch what happened on the defensive end you might have noticed that Grant was usually the guy helping Hedo deal with Aldridge, too.

Take Grant out, shift Turk to SF and play Warrick at PF and we'd have gotten beat up even worse... neither of those guys can begin to guard Andre Miller nor much of any one else for that matter.

 

[Catlover]

Not so. Like last year in the playoffs, Gentry had Grant defending Andre Miller, which he did well. The minute Miller had someone else on him - Dragic, IIRC - he bulldozed him right to the bucket. If you'd bothered to watch what happened on the defensive end you might have noticed that Grant was usually the guy helping Hedo deal with Aldridge, too.

Take Grant out, shift Turk to SF and play Warrick at PF and we'd have gotten beat up even worse... neither of those guys can begin to guard Andre Miller nor much of any one else for that matter.

Hill is an above average defender made to look even better than he is because of how poorly most of the Suns defend. But you're right, I was referring to his offensive performance without acknowledging his defense. My point was based on the apparent reasoning behind him being a starter. He's there primarily (IMO) because his offense disappears when he comes in off the bench.

All in all, I'd rather see Childress out there with the first unit and I don't consider Grant's offense a good enough reason to keep pairing him with the starters. As for not wanting to see Hakim guard Andre Miller, I'm not sure he defends power forwards any better.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Geez, of course you would say that. Like Gentry has no responsibility here? Come on now. Hedo has said he'd go to the bench if he was told to.

And I love Grant Hill, but again, he was useless last night and all through preseason. Why aren't you jumping all over him? Wouldn't it conceivably be better with Hedo or even Jared Dudley playing that starting role instead?

Hill has been extremely consistent for us up to this point. I wouldn't bench him based on one game. Hedo has been bad now for a year. Besides, as I have been watching, I think Warrick's athleticism fits in this offense. I think he can run the pick and role with Nash better than Hedo. We need a player that can attack the rim, and Warrick is better for that.

 

[Chaplin]

Hill has been extremely consistent for us up to this point. I wouldn't bench him based on one game. Hedo has been bad now for a year. Besides, as I have been watching, I think Warrick's athleticism fits in this offense. I think he can run the pick and role with Nash better than Hedo. We need a player that can attack the rim, and Warrick is better for that.

Really? But you have no problem benching Hedo after one game. Considering he scored 13 points in 22 minutes tonight, that's not too bad.

Grant Hill was much better tonight, so it helps when a lot of guys are playing well. But Hedo really is responsible for giving us the lead early in the game.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

I think Hedo will improve significantly as he figures out the system. Part of the issue is that his best years were on Magic teams without dominant point guards - he initiated a significant portion of the offense. I wonder if putting him in the second unit, where Dragic dominates the ball less than Nash, would do him good...

 

[SirStefan32]

I think Hedo will improve significantly as he figures out the system. Part of the issue is that his best years were on Magic teams without dominant point guards - he initiated a significant portion of the offense. I wonder if putting him in the second unit, where Dragic dominates the ball less than Nash, would do him good...

Or what if Gentry lets Hedo run the point, and turn Nash into a spot up shooting guard?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Really? But you have no problem benching Hedo after one game. Considering he scored 13 points in 22 minutes tonight, that's not too bad.

Grant Hill was much better tonight, so it helps when a lot of guys are playing well. But Hedo really is responsible for giving us the lead early in the game.

No, not after one game. After a year and a preseason of poor play. His time in Toronto counts.

Hill has been a player that will fill whatever column in the stat sheet that is necessary for that night. He is a much better defender.

If Hedo steps up, great. But he has to prove he wants it for me. I haven't seen that from him in over a year.

 

[Chaplin]

No, not after one game. After a year and a preseason of poor play. His time in Toronto counts.

Why? He played in a different system and was unhappy the whole time. You're so close-minded, you won't even give him a chance. Last night was a step in the right direction.

 

[Covert Rain]

No, not after one game. After a year and a preseason of poor play. His time in Toronto counts.

Hill has been a player that will fill whatever column in the stat sheet that is necessary for that night. He is a much better defender.

If Hedo steps up, great. But he has to prove he wants it for me. I haven't seen that from him in over a year.

I agree. It counts. Happy or not, Hedo needs to be a professional. Being unhappy is not an excuse. Toronto runs a very similar system. That is not an excuse. That is why I say he needs to be on a short leash. Give the guy a chance to see if he can get back into form. However, that doesn't mean 2 months from now I want to see him still trying to do that.

Also, Hill has never been useless on this team. Even when Hill is having an off game offensively, he still is one of the most consistent defenders we have on the floor. Having an offnight from Hill and HT is different IMO.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Why? He played in a different system and was unhappy the whole time. You're so close-minded, you won't even give him a chance. Last night was a step in the right direction.

Hedo should have been great in that system, and he is the one who signed with Toronto. Why should he have been unhappy? He is unhappy if the ball isn't in his hands. This is Steve Nash's team and ball is going to be in Steve's hands. Not sure Hedo will be able to adjust here either.

We'll see. It's not being closed minded. Its looking at the facts and looking at likely expectations. I really do consider myself one of the more open-minded, positive, types on this board. This just seems so obvious to me.

If Hedo is going to prosper here, he is going to have to learn to be effective and happy without the ball in his hands.

 

[Chaplin]

Hedo should have been great in that system, and he is the one who signed with Toronto. Why should he have been unhappy? He is unhappy if the ball isn't in his hands. This is Steve Nash's team and ball is going to be in Steve's hands. Not sure Hedo will be able to adjust here either.

We'll see. It's not being closed minded. Its looking at the facts and looking at likely expectations. I really do consider myself one of the more open-minded, positive, types on this board. This just seems so obvious to me.

If Hedo is going to prosper here, he is going to have to learn to be effective and happy without the ball in his hands.

I think it's funny that you accuse him of being a malcontent already when it's the coaching staff that has created Hedo's play so far this year. He's been a catch and shoot guy so far, and he needs to be more of a creator. He had a few opportunities last night that he didn't take, and I'm not sure why. I am encouraged by his game, but when you have a much smaller rookie guarding you, I would think that would make the guy salivate. It could be that he just decided not to do it, or that Gentry has decided that it isn't worth trying in the scope of the offense. Either way, I hope they recognize the missed opportunities in the film room.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Why? He played in a different system and was unhappy the whole time. You're so close-minded, you won't even give him a chance. Last night was a step in the right direction.

What is with the personal attacks Chap? Just because someone doesn't agree with you, it doesn't make them close minded. At this point, he's a vastly overpaid, poor man's Channing Frye and completely redundant on this team. At least Channing can fake guarding 4's. So far it looks like BC stuck us with the biggest turd contract in the league. Time to start Warrick and hopefully Hedo can find some life with the 2nd team.

 

[Chaplin]

What is with the personal attacks Chap? Just because someone doesn't agree with you, it doesn't make them close minded. At this point, he's a vastly overpaid, poor man's Channing Frye and completely redundant on this team. At least Channing can fake guarding 4's. So far it looks like BC stuck us with the biggest turd contract in the league. Time to start Warrick and hopefully Hedo can find some life with the 2nd team.

LOL Are you serious?

So now you're saying Channing Frye is better than Hedo Turkoglu? That's going a little too far, even though I agree starting Warrick seems like a good way to go. I'll be surprised if it happens right away though.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

So now you're saying Channing Frye is better than Hedo Turkoglu?

Your eyes don't deceive you. When you consider salaries as well, it's not very close. It's obviously early, but there is nothing that Hedo has shown so far to make me think he'll be anything other than subtraction by addition. Even if he does start creating for others (which he hasn't shown at all yet) he's so poor on the defensive end that at best he'll be a +/- wash. We'll see if your opinion changes as the season goes on. You may be right, but I doubt it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think it's funny that you accuse him of being a malcontent already when it's the coaching staff that has created Hedo's play so far this year. He's been a catch and shoot guy so far, and he needs to be more of a creator. He had a few opportunities last night that he didn't take, and I'm not sure why. I am encouraged by his game, but when you have a much smaller rookie guarding you, I would think that would make the guy salivate. It could be that he just decided not to do it, or that Gentry has decided that it isn't worth trying in the scope of the offense. Either way, I hope they recognize the missed opportunities in the film room.

No, I am saying he was a malcontent in Toronto and his reasons for being discontent there exist here as well. So it seems logical to conclude that he will be unhappy here too.

Time will tell, won't it.

I don't think this is being closed minded. It is having realistic expectations. Being closed minded would be to refuse to change my opinion should he produce consistently and effectively. I will gladly update my evaluation should that happen.

 

[Chaplin]

No, I am saying he was a malcontent in Toronto and his reasons for being discontent there exist here as well. So it seems logical to conclude that he will be unhappy here too.

Really? Where's your proof of that? It certainly isn't anything he's said and not by his actions. The only problem he has right now is that he isn't integrated in the system enough yet. There is no evidence whatsoever that he is a malcontent here.

 

[elindholm]

I've read that Turkoglu is working hard in practice, putting in extra time, etc. I'd guess that his problems isn't poor attitude, but simply a lack of skill. Obviously he's still an NBA-caliber player, but he's not at the level that any decent team would think of as being in their top three.