Why does everyone feel...

[KloD]

we would have to use our first round pick this year to rid ourselves of White? He is in the final year of his contract and there may be some team out there wanting a big body. I could be way off, but why is it so implausible that a team may offer a 2nd round pick for him? I was also wondering why if we did offer the Bobcats a pick to take him that it wouldn't be the Cleveland pick? I would think that would have value for them and if they are just stacking the team this year to put bodies on the floor, why not? They gain a first round and I highly doubt there will be much pickin's for them in the players exposed for them to choose form. In fact I would think they should give us a pick for allowing them to take a player with Whites contract because I highly doubt many with only a year or two left in their contract will be out there for the pickin's. Everyone is going to try and shove the Howard Eisley's on them.
Any thoughts?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

we would have to use our first round pick this year to rid ourselves of White? He is in the final year of his contract and there may be some team out there wanting a big body. I could be way off, but why is it so implausible that a team may offer a 2nd round pick for him? I was also wondering why if we did offer the Bobcats a pick to take him that it wouldn't be the Cleveland pick? I would think that would have value for them and if they are just stacking the team this year to put bodies on the floor, why not? They gain a first round and I highly doubt there will be much pickin's for them in the players exposed for them to choose form. In fact I would think they should give us a pick for allowing them to take a player with Whites contract because I highly doubt many with only a year or two left in their contract will be out there for the pickin's. Everyone is going to try and shove the Howard Eisley's on them.
Any thoughts?

The main reason people think it might take the lotto pick is because Charlotte is in the drivers seat. For them to take a big contract over a minimum deal, they will want compensation. Since the suns might be desperate to move white, and the bobcats will know this, they can afford to demand the lotto pick.

There will be a good majority of big contracts available, but there will also be no name players they could take. There have been several other mock availabilities done on this board you could take a look at.


The other option you suggest, trading him to another team for a 2nd rounder, will not happen. First off, it would have to be a team with a lot of free cap room, so we dont need to take anything back. That will be Atlanta, Utah and maybe Denver. Plus, again, they would have no incentive to take him from us. He is an expensive player, even if we sent 3 million cash (the max), I don't think any teams would want to pay the other 3 million for his limited use.

The only way I see somehting like that being possible is if we get a top 2 pick, and atlanta falls out of reach from Howard. At that point we maybe be able to push our pick and Eisley on them.

 

[KloD]

The main reason people think it might take the lotto pick is because Charlotte is in the drivers seat. For them to take a big contract over a minimum deal, they will want compensation. Since the suns might be desperate to move white, and the bobcats will know this, they can afford to demand the lotto pick.

There will be a good majority of big contracts available, but there will also be no name players they could take. There have been several other mock availabilities done on this board you could take a look at.


The other option you suggest, trading him to another team for a 2nd rounder, will not happen. First off, it would have to be a team with a lot of free cap room, so we dont need to take anything back. That will be Atlanta, Utah and maybe Denver. Plus, again, they would have no incentive to take him from us. He is an expensive player, even if we sent 3 million cash (the max), I don't think any teams would want to pay the other 3 million for his limited use.

The only way I see somehting like that being possible is if we get a top 2 pick, and atlanta falls out of reach from Howard. At that point we maybe be able to push our pick and Eisley on them.

OK, all good points. Now do I have it wrong in believing that the Bobcats can take any amount and salary, but have to chop it down to a specific number by a certain date. If this is true, than woundn't it make sense to grab the Clev pick and than turn and dump White. I guess my thinking is if the Suns say no why on this years first, than the Bobcats would be silly to turn that down. Of course that only matters if I understand the draft correctly.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The Bobcats can take on as much salary as they want. But their salary cap is 2/3 the leagues cap. I am pretty sure they do not have to trim it down to that number, but they wont be able to sign any FAs that way.

They can waive any player they draft, and their contract will not affect the cap (unlike normal waivers). However, they still have to pay the player the remainder of their contract.

So if the Suns sent White + 3 million cash, they would still have to pay 3 million for a player who will never suit up. The Cleavland pick is an alternative to our lotto, however it is unclear if it will be enough.

Like I said, the Bobcats could take a player that makes under a million instead of White. They are doing us a favor by drafting him, and since they know we will be desperate, they can demand the better pick.


edit: Basically, assuming the Bobcats waive White, they have to decide if it is worth 3 million for a pick that will never be below 14 (it is lotto protected forever). My guess is that they would much rather pay 3 million for a pick that will be top 7, which is why they might demand it. Now if the suns stay firm on not sending the pick, then maybe Charlotte decides to take the cleavland pick.

 

[George O'Brien]

The expansion draft will be like a game of poker. Neither side will know exactly what the other is going to do, so they will try to bluff their way out of it.

My read on it is that the Bobcats will try to take the cheapest players available. Unless my calcualtions are wrong, White will be roughly the 8th or 9th cheapest player available (they have to take 14).

If the Suns hold tough, the Bobcats might decide to take White and the $3 million without added compensation. There will be a lot of teams willing to give draft picks to clear salaries, but they will all have higher salaries than White.

If the Bobcats push hard for the lottery pick, the Suns could try to substitute Eisley. He is a lot more expensive then White, but the Suns are the only team with a mid lottery slot who would be likley to make the deal.

The risk to playing it tough is that the Bobcats might not take either deal and leave the Suns alone. This seriously reduces the Suns ability to get a marquis FA this season, but delays the Suns major moves until next summer.

 

[Errntknght]

By the time it comes to make a deal most of the cards are going to be face up. We'll know all of players the Bobcats can pick among and what draft pick their teams could offer. Essentially we'll be able to list the cost of draft picks to them. We won't know for sure if draft picks will be offered but we can assume the worst case, which is that the team will offer their best pick. If it comes to the 14th pick and their choice is 15 million for a #23 pick versus White for 3 million then it looks pretty safe... unless we've seen them just pay 14 mil for a #22 pick. I guess somebody might trip us up by deciding to throw in their first round pick two years hence. Really, I think it's going to be pretty easy to get a read on what we need to offer as early as the ninth or tenth pick.

The kicker for the Suns is, which we, including me, keep forgetting is that we owe an indeterminate future pick to SA for Barbosa so we cannot offer this years pick because it will be a future pick at the time of the expansion draft. We could offer Cleveland's future pick however, if needed - and that will have to look very attractive for a mere 3 million.

 

[cly2tw]

Eisley + our #7, a team over the cap might want trade for before July 1st using an expiring contract of say 4 mil like the one Keon Clark has plus a multiyear 2+ mil player. Eisley is overpaid by 4.5 mil a year, but with the 2+mil contract going Suns way, it's like paying 5 mil for the lotto pick.

 

[Yuma]

I say we keep White and let him play out his last year. If anyone should be traded it's Eisley. Plus, with an expiring contact at the end of the year, if we don't get Kobe or TMac, a trade with another team for a player is much more enticing with Jahidi in the trade since he would provide cap relief for the team making a trade. I say keep White, deal Eisley in the Bobcat deal if there is one. I have been saying, if we aren't going to get Kobe, then keep both White and Eisley, use our draft picks, and wait until the following year to get a big free agent. Then White will be off the books, and Eisley will be trade bait with an expiring contract. Patience Brian C., Patience!!

 

[George O'Brien]

I say we keep White and let him play out his last year. If anyone should be traded it's Eisley. Plus, with an expiring contact at the end of the year, if we don't get Kobe or TMac, a trade with another team for a player is much more enticing with Jahidi in the trade since he would provide cap relief for the team making a trade. I say keep White, deal Eisley in the Bobcat deal if there is one. I have been saying, if we aren't going to get Kobe, then keep both White and Eisley, use our draft picks, and wait until the following year to get a big free agent. Then White will be off the books, and Eisley will be trade bait with an expiring contract. Patience Brian C., Patience!!

It is hard to be patient when the team struggles. There is a very real chance that there will be no one available in the FA market worth the amount it would take to get him.

Errntknght: By the time it comes to make a deal most of the cards are going to be face up. We'll know all of players the Bobcats can pick among and what draft pick their teams could offer.

The list is not supposed to be made public. It will be in the Bobcats interest to keep it a secret or lie about it and teams are going to be reluctant to make their list public. I think we can make educated guesses, but that is not the same as KNOWING.

 

[KloD]

OK, so if teams are offering picks to take players and the Bobcats load up on picks isn't that kinda dumb. It sounds good at first, but that will just mean they have lock up their cap with a bunch of rookies. I would think they would want to take players and make trades. I would think they would want to take a mix of short contracts & maybe acquire a few picks, but not try to get as many as they can. It could backfire if they get too many and are forced to draft and pay 4-5 year contracts to each one. I also feel it would be better for them to get future picks from teams rather than picks in this years draft.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wouldn't mind keeping White on our roster as he is a big man that can at least be a role player on our team and his contract expires after one more year. Also I think there is a fair chance that the Bobcats might select White without compensation or minimal financial compensation.

Losing Eisley's contract would be a plus but I do not want to give up our number one pick this year or even the Cleveland pick to the Bobcats. The Suns have a lot of talent. I think adding Vulgaric (sp), drafting a future center at #7 and picking up a couple of role players (SG, Center) would do wonders for this team.

Other options might be leaving Casey or Voskuhl exposed in the expansion draft if the Suns need more FA spending money. I would think both players would be attractive to the Bobcats as well. Yes, I like Voskuhl as a player very much and would hate to see him go. Casey's contract is probably not that large but losing it, might help also. Trades (not with the Bobcats for consideration) might be the best way to go.

What this team needs most is a good defensive philosphy and a good defensive coach. The team also needs to develop chemistry this summer.

The bottom line is keep our lotto pick as there are some good looking players in this draft at the center position and possibly shooting guard. As the Suns have new ownership I don't think the salary cap is going to hurt us. Besides, I thought this issue had been resolved with the Googs trade.

If this is all about getting big free agent money, then for who? Besides I consider Kobe as the only franchise player potentially available and this is not a knock on McGrady. I just don't think Tracy can take us to the promised land. I'm not sold on getting Kobe even if he were available.

Keep the lotto pick!

 

[George O'Brien]

OK, so if teams are offering picks to take players and the Bobcats load up on picks isn't that kinda dumb. It sounds good at first, but that will just mean they have lock up their cap with a bunch of rookies. I would think they would want to take players and make trades. I would think they would want to take a mix of short contracts & maybe acquire a few picks, but not try to get as many as they can. It could backfire if they get too many and are forced to draft and pay 4-5 year contracts to each one. I also feel it would be better for them to get future picks from teams rather than picks in this years draft.

In some ways future picks could be more valuable to the Bobcats than current ones, considering the nature of this draft. However, the Cleveland pick has to be after the Cavs make the playoffs, so it will be no better than #15.

My guess is that the Suns are the only team with a lottery pick likely to try to deal. Chicago is the only other early lottery team that could make a huge impact by getting rid of a bad salary, but most people think they will try to do a trade rather than go for cap space.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I guess somebody might trip us up by deciding to throw in their first round pick two years hence. Really, I think it's going to be pretty easy to get a read on what we need to offer as early as the ninth or tenth pick.

The kicker for the Suns is, which we, including me, keep forgetting is that we owe an indeterminate future pick to SA for Barbosa so we cannot offer this years pick because it will be a future pick at the time of the expansion draft. We could offer Cleveland's future pick however, if needed - and that will have to look very attractive for a mere 3 million.

I am not sure if the first paragraph meant trading a second future first, or just a future first. Just for clarification though, each team may only offer 1 draft pick and 3 million cash to take a player. Also, each team may only loose 1 player to the Bobcats. (So we couldnt make Casey available in a deal where charlotte would take him and White).

The second part is an intersting thought. Although I think we can still offer our pick. Several writers have talked about the suns dealing their pick before the draft, so maybe the expansion rules are a little different when considering future firsts?

 

[elindholm]

Do the Suns have any discretion on when they settle the debt with the Spurs? If so, can they just decide that they won't pay the Spurs back in 2005, thereby freeing up the 2004 pick? For that matter, if they decide that and then Cleveland makes the playoffs, can they change their mind, keep the Cleveland pick, and ship their own to the Spurs then?

 

[JCSunsfan]

The Bobcats can take on as much salary as they want. But their salary cap is 2/3 the leagues cap. I am pretty sure they do not have to trim it down to that number, but they wont be able to sign any FAs that way.

They can waive any player they draft, and their contract will not affect the cap (unlike normal waivers). However, they still have to pay the player the remainder of their contract.

So if the Suns sent White + 3 million cash, they would still have to pay 3 million for a player who will never suit up. The Cleavland pick is an alternative to our lotto, however it is unclear if it will be enough..[/i]

/QUOTE]

The difference is that White would be an attractive player for the Bobcats.

If his salary was just 3 million, we would assume they might take him. If we offer $3 million plus cash for them to take White, I think they would do it. He's big, he's talented, he could shine on an expansion roster, and the risk is limited because he only has a year left.

The only reason that Charlotte would demand more is because they think they can get us to do it. In the business world its called gouging. This is one of those times where you sweeten the pot some, but don't give away the farm.

I'm not sure anyone else will offer them much better than White, $3 million, and the Cleveland pick. Even then, so what if they offer them something better, Charlotte can do BOTH (even 10).

How many players do they have to take anyway? Isn't it 15? All we have to offer is a deal that is in the top 15 of the offers they get.

In this situation, if your deal is the best offer they get, you lose. The real winner is the team whose offer comes in 15th.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

They have to take 14 players I am pretty sure.

White most likely wouldn't be an attactive player. For a competitive team with a thin frontline, a 3 million dollar bruiser would be great. However, the Bobcats are not looking to compete next year. Why would they throw 3 million at a player who will either not play, or take away time from younger players who may turn into something?

Perhaps the clealand pick would be enough, there just isn't a way to tell until it happens.

 

[cly2tw]

Another idea, we give 3 mil cash for the Bobcats to take White, with the promise that if they cut him we'd hire him back with a 2 mil plus deal. Essentially, we get 3 mil additional cap room while Bobcats avoid having to take a player they really don't want from any team.

 

[Chaplin]

They have to take 14 players I am pretty sure.

White most likely wouldn't be an attactive player. For a competitive team with a thin frontline, a 3 million dollar bruiser would be great. However, the Bobcats are not looking to compete next year. Why would they throw 3 million at a player who will either not play, or take away time from younger players who may turn into something?

Perhaps the clealand pick would be enough, there just isn't a way to tell until it happens.

We finally disagree on something. I think White would be very attractive. Why? Simply his size, and the fact that he would be available. Remember, the Cats only have 2 draft picks this year--so they're not going to have a team of 2004 draft picks playing next season.

Sure, nobody expects the Bobcats to win much of anything next year, but I find it hard to believe that a team trying to get an exhausted fan base interested again needs to try to win.

 

[KloD]

They have to take 14 players I am pretty sure.

White most likely wouldn't be an attactive player. For a competitive team with a thin frontline, a 3 million dollar bruiser would be great. However, the Bobcats are not looking to compete next year. Why would they throw 3 million at a player who will either not play, or take away time from younger players who may turn into something?

Perhaps the clealand pick would be enough, there just isn't a way to tell until it happens.

I would think paying a center $3 million for a one year is a deal in this NBA.

 

[KloD]

Round Player (Overall Pick) Team Selected From
First Dell Curry (2) Cleveland
Second Dave Hoppen (4) Golden State
Third Mugsy Bogues (6) Washington Z
Fourth Mike Brown (8) Chicago
Fifth Ricky Green (10) Utah
Sixth Michael Holton (12) Portland
Seventh Michael Brooks (14) Denver
Eighth Bernard Thompson (16) Phoenix
Ninth Ralph Lewis (18) Detroit
Tenth Clinton Wheeler (20) Indiana
Eleventh Sedric Toney (22) New York

Looking over the Hornets expansion draft I am not so sure the objective wouldn't be to take all the minimum contracts they can. I still think White would be a smart move for them without the pick, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. If the Suns move our first in this deal I will be upset.

 

[elindholm]

LOL, who the hell are those guys?

 

[Chaplin]

Round Player (Overall Pick) Team Selected From
First Dell Curry (2) Cleveland
Second Dave Hoppen (4) Golden State
Third Mugsy Bogues (6) Washington Z
Fourth Mike Brown (8) Chicago
Fifth Ricky Green (10) Utah
Sixth Michael Holton (12) Portland
Seventh Michael Brooks (14) Denver
Eighth Bernard Thompson (16) Phoenix
Ninth Ralph Lewis (18) Detroit
Tenth Clinton Wheeler (20) Indiana
Eleventh Sedric Toney (22) New York

Looking over the Hornets expansion draft I am not so sure the objective wouldn't be to take all the minimum contracts they can. I still think White would be a smart move for them without the pick, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. If the Suns move our first in this deal I will be upset.

I think White and Elden Campbell will probably be the best choices for Charlotte when trying to find a servicable center. Personally, I would choose White because of his body and the fact that there is still some potential there. Elden Campbell is a waste of space.

 

[Joe Mama]

Or they could just decide they want a young, free-agent center. They can sign one of this summer's free-agents. One thing is for certain. It will be interesting. I mean it will probably be a good indicator of the Phoenix Suns' plans this summer. To go after Kobe Bryant in free agency they will really need to unload Jahidi White or Howard Eiseley.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Or they could just decide they want a young, free-agent center. They can sign one of this summer's free-agents. One thing is for certain. It will be interesting. I mean it will probably be a good indicator of the Phoenix Suns' plans this summer. To go after Kobe Bryant in free agency they will really need to unload Jahidi White or Howard Eiseley.

Joe Mama

With only $30 million in cap space, I can't see them even talking to any of the centers. The attraction of White and Campbell is that they have only one more year on their contracts - a huge priority for the Bobcats.

BTW, I can make a case for moving White or Eisley that has nothing to do with Kobe. The real issue is the lottery pick. If they use the lottery pick to move White, it means they know something we don't.

 

[JCSunsfan]

BTW, I can make a case for moving White or Eisley that has nothing to do with Kobe. The real issue is the lottery pick. If they use the lottery pick to move White, it means they know something we don't.

If they move the pick with White or Eisley, its because they don't WANT it. I believe they want it. Otherwise, we'd be hearing already about how weak this draft is etc etc.