Why does everyone feel...

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
JCSunsfan said:
If they move the pick with White or Eisley, its because they don't WANT it. I believe they want it. Otherwise, we'd be hearing already about how weak this draft is etc etc.

I doubt the Suns will make any noises until after they have had workouts with the top 10-15 prospects.

As I've said many many times, the problem with this draft is that the players don't fit the Suns needs. It looks like as many as 3 of the first eight picks will be point guards: Livingston, Gordon, and Harris. While there might be a case for signing a veteran PG like Brent Barry (probably too expensive), adding a project point guard to a team that already has Barbosa and the rights to Vujanic makes no sense.

Other top picks include Deng, Iguodala, and Josh Smith, with talents too much like Marion's (reat athletes without great jump shots). They make sense on a BPA basis, but don't fit a need.

Okafor is the only big man in the draft likely to have much impact the first year. Biedrins keeps rising in most mock drafts because he is the only other big man likely to get any playing time his first year.

Dwight Howard and Kosta Perovic are unlikely to see minutes until their second season at the earliest (unless Howard goes to Atlanta and starts by default).

Andriuskevicius, Ramos, Splitter, Petro, Podkolzine, Araujo, Harrison, Swift, etc. all figure to take three years or more before they show much.

Considering the Suns depth problems, they really cannot afford to add another project who can't play. Unfortunately, that could mean taking someone like Gordon or Iguodala who don't really meet their needs.
 

F-Dog

lurker
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Posts
3,637
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
George O'Brien said:
Considering the Suns depth problems, they really cannot afford to add another project who can't play. Unfortunately, that could mean taking someone like Gordon or Iguodala who don't really meet their needs.

Wow--I am in major, major disagreement with this.


1. Considering the Suns' root problems were injuries and inexperience, I wouldn't just assume they'll have depth issues again this year, even with the same roster.

2. Not only can they afford to add another project who can't play, they can also afford to sign free agents, which is a much better way to address lack of depth than the draft, as things currently stand.

3. If the Suns 'need' anything, it's a center and a backup swingman. Iguodala seems like a pretty good fit for need #2.


This draft looks great for the Suns to me, since all of the 18-year-old players are throwing themselves in to avoid the (rumored) future age limit, and the Suns are one of the few teams that can really afford to wait on a player who's too raw to play now but has monster upside. I still think the Suns could wind up with the best player in this draft at #7 or #8, with a little luck.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,709
Reaction score
10,163
Location
L.A. area
The Suns biggest "need" is a franchise center who can defend All-Stars one-on-one and shoot from 16-18 feet. I'm not especially surprised that this draft doesn't have many players who fit that description.
 

Joe Mama

Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
9,501
Reaction score
964
Location
Gilbert, AZ
elindholm said:
The Suns biggest "need" is a franchise center who can defend All-Stars one-on-one and shoot from 16-18 feet. I'm not especially surprised that this draft doesn't have many players who fit that description.

Actually the draft is chuck-full of possibilities at center, but all of them are guys who will probably not contribute for at least another season.

I agree with F-Dog. I've been down on this draft for some time, but the Phoenix Suns are in a great position at #7. Because everything is so up in the air and really up to each team's scouting the Phoenix Suns could really steal a jem with that draft pick.

Joe Mama
 

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
22,123
Reaction score
6,556
Joe Mama said:
Actually the draft is chuck-full of possibilities at center, but all of them are guys who will probably not contribute for at least another season.

I agree with F-Dog. I've been down on this draft for some time, but the Phoenix Suns are in a great position at #7. Because everything is so up in the air and really up to each team's scouting the Phoenix Suns could really steal a jem with that draft pick.

Joe Mama

Yup. I think they like this draft.

It seems every day there is another kid in the 7 foot plus range entering. What, aren't there like3 or 4 now who are 7-2 plus. Even if most of them are stiffs, there is still a chance one will be taken in the 1-6 range and drop someone really good to the Suns.

An who knows, maybe there is a real gem there. I follow the draft pretty closely, but Nowitski took me completely by surprise when Dallas drafted him. While it is true there is much more international awareness now, maybe there will be another gem in the mix.

And there is also still the possibility of Okafor if we get lucky in the lotto (the Suns ARE due)
 

hcsilla

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Posts
3,457
Reaction score
315
Location
Budapest,Hungary
elindholm said:
The Suns biggest "need" is a franchise center who can defend All-Stars one-on-one and shoot from 16-18 feet. I'm not especially surprised that this draft doesn't have many players who fit that description.

:)

My biggest need is a rendez-vous with Halle Berry.

PS. I hope that my wife doesn't read this board.
 

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
F-Dog said:
Wow--I am in major, major disagreement with this.

1. Considering the Suns' root problems were injuries and inexperience, I wouldn't just assume they'll have depth issues again this year, even with the same roster.

I hope you're right, but I'm not entirely convinced. I think JJ played over 40 minutes an incredible number of games in a row and Shawn was up there as well. Unfortunately, the drop off was so great that taking them out for even a few minutes was a problem.

I am hoping Vujanic will get some minutes I really hope Carbakapa returns to the pre-injury guy we saw briefly, but that is just hoping on my part.

2. Not only can they afford to add another project who can't play, they can also afford to sign free agents, which is a much better way to address lack of depth than the draft, as things currently stand.

I'm thinking in terms of roster spots rather than money. Right now the Suns have "projects" in Lampe and Carbakapa who still have to prove they are NBA players. They can't be relied upon to play significant minutes in important games. Maybe they will someday, but not yet.

Adding another guy who won't be expected to contribute means taking a roster spot from someone who can help. I suppose you can put everybody on IR, but then where are you going to hide Eisley? :rolleyes:

3. If the Suns 'need' anything, it's a center and a backup swingman. Iguodala seems like a pretty good fit for need #2.

I've said that my first pick at #7 is Biedrins (the only Euro who plays defense) and my second is Iggy as a BPA. I can see Iggy being used as a defensive specialist. Neither guy is a "sure thing", but neither is described a pure project like Ramos or Andriuskevicius or Splitter appear to be.

This draft looks great for the Suns to me, since all of the 18-year-old players are throwing themselves in to avoid the (rumored) future age limit, and the Suns are one of the few teams that can really afford to wait on a player who's too raw to play now but has monster upside. I still think the Suns could wind up with the best player in this draft at #7 or #8, with a little luck.

I don't think any of this year's Euros have the upside that Lampe has. I like Biedrins because he brings something none of the Suns big guys have - straight on shot blocking ability. But even he is awfully young.
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,564
Reaction score
17,178
Location
Round Rock, TX
JCSunsfan said:
An who knows, maybe there is a real gem there. I follow the draft pretty closely, but Nowitski took me completely by surprise when Dallas drafted him. While it is true there is much more international awareness now, maybe there will be another gem in the mix.

Just a nitpick, but Dirk was drafted by Milwaukee. ;)
 

F-Dog

lurker
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Posts
3,637
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
George O'Brien said:
I think JJ played over 40 minutes an incredible number of games in a row and Shawn was up there as well. Unfortunately, the drop off was so great that taking them out for even a few minutes was a problem.

...which is why a swingman like Iguodala qualifies as a need pick for Phoenix.

George O'Brien said:
Adding another guy who won't be expected to contribute means taking a roster spot from someone who can help. I suppose you can put everybody on IR, but then where are you going to hide Eisley? :rolleyes:

The Suns have nine players under contract for next year (not counting Eisley). They probably need to add two more guards and another big. That leaves two IR spots, one of which could be used for the draft pick until the inevitable injury occurs.

I really doubt the Suns will find themselves in a roster-space crunch next year, regardless of what happens with the draft.

George O'Brien said:
I don't think any of this year's Euros have the upside that Lampe has.

That seems like an unsupportable statement, considering you don't have the resources to scout these guys. Actually, it would look unsupportable even if you did have the resources.

How would you (or I or anybody else here, for that matter) know which Euro is the best out of the players who've declared, much less how that player stacks up against Lampe?

George O'Brien said:
I like Biedrins because he brings something none of the Suns big guys have - straight on shot blocking ability. But even he is awfully young.

I think Biedrins sounds like he'd be another PF trying to play center (if the Suns take him), and I don't see why you'd expect an 18-year-old PF to play meaningful minutes when the Suns will already have Amare, Zarko, Lampe, and presumably McDyess at PF, along with Voskuhl and Jahidi at center.

If the Suns take Biedrins, I'll like him, of course. But I'll be assuming that he's the BPA because the Suns chose him, not that he'll contribute next year in any way.
 

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
F-Dog said:
...which is why a swingman like Iguodala qualifies as a need pick for Phoenix.

The only reason I'm not higher on Iggy is that he is not a good outside shooter and he is a bit small for SF.

The Suns have nine players under contract for next year (not counting Eisley). They probably need to add two more guards and another big. That leaves two IR spots, one of which could be used for the draft pick until the inevitable injury occurs.

The Suns currently have four inside guys (I do not think Carbakapa will be strong enough to play inside for several years): Stoudemire, Voskuhl, Lampe, and White. The Suns could easily lose White even if they don't bribe the Bobcats and he is the guy to move if they want cap space without giving up their lottery pick. That leaves the Suns with only three inside guys.

It is not a sure thing that Dice will be resigned although I think he makes sense. Even with Dice, this is not much depth.

I really doubt the Suns will find themselves in a roster-space crunch next year, regardless of what happens with the draft.

Typically the Suns would go with 5-2-5 configuration: 5 bigs - 2 SF - 5 guards with at least one guard capable of playing SF. At this point the Suns have four guards and are likely to add another when they sign Vujanic. Adding Iggy would put them at 6 guards, which probably means one of them would end up on IR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by George O'Brien
"I don't think any of this year's Euros have the upside that Lampe has. "

That seems like an unsupportable statement, considering you don't have the resources to scout these guys. Actually, it would look unsupportable even if you did have the resources.

How would you (or I or anybody else here, for that matter) know which Euro is the best out of the players who've declared, much less how that player stacks up against Lampe?

Obviously things will change when and if I get new and better information. But unless the same scouts are being inconsistent about their write ups, I think reasonable comparisons suggest that this year's group is less promising.
Most of the current batch are either a lot lighter or a lot slower.

Realistically, even if I saw these guys play it wouldn't mean much. Too often I've been overwhelmed watching guys in college only to see them flop in the bigs. I'm more inclined to review a large number of reports than to rely on who I've seen play.

About the only exception I give is about Araujo who I think is too slow to be much in the NBA. "Ostertag without the fancy footwork".

I think Biedrins sounds like he'd be another PF trying to play center (if the Suns take him), and I don't see why you'd expect an 18-year-old PF to play meaningful minutes when the Suns will already have Amare, Zarko, Lampe, and presumably McDyess at PF, along with Voskuhl and Jahidi at center.

If the Suns take Biedrins, I'll like him, of course. But I'll be assuming that he's the BPA because the Suns chose him, not that he'll contribute next year in any way.

Biedrins is a center like Camby is center - he has really long arms. He blocks shots and rebounds well. He plays with his back to basket and relies on hooks and short jumpers.

His precociousness is unbelievable, he's playing 30 year old pros every day and dominates them. Unlike most European sevenfooters, Biedrins is more of a back-to-basket player. He works strong in the paint and scores mostly from the lowpost. A strong rebounder, too. But the brightest aspect of his game is his natural shot blocking ability. He wants to block virtually every shot. Last year he finished second in the Latvian League in block shots. While his defense was already great last year, his improvement on the offensive end this season shows his great work ethic. He was working on his offensive skills every day in the off season. That's why his scoring average increased from 3.3 last year to 19.5 this year.

draft city

The mock drafts vary, but most have him gone by the time the Suns draft (the Wizzards being the most likely team to take him). So maybe he won't make it, but scouting reports that describe Ramos as having no defensive skills or Euros who rely totally on size for their defense leave me cold. If Biedrins can play defense, he will play.
 

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
22,123
Reaction score
6,556
Chaplin said:
Just a nitpick, but Dirk was drafted by Milwaukee. ;)

True, but my understanding was that Milwaukee made the pick for Dallas.

Wow, what a deal that was. Wasn't it Traylor for Dirk.
 

thegrahamcrackr

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Posts
6,168
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Az
JCSunsfan said:
True, but my understanding was that Milwaukee made the pick for Dallas.

Wow, what a deal that was. Wasn't it Traylor for Dirk.


Actually, if I remember right

It was Traylor for Dirk AND Pat Garrity :)
 
Top