Why I will stop posting to this board

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hcsilla

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elindholm said:
Several longtime posters have raised objections to the policy shift, and all have met with the same response: This is our board, we run it the way we want to, and if you don’t like it, leave.

That response is very stupid. I wanted to say this many times but now it's time to do so.
I also run a website. I would have never ever said things like that for the posters.

Moreover I have an advice for the owners and mods of this site: If you don't like that people are coming and posting here and expressing opinions then simply quit of running the site. Sure, people will search and find another place to post but it will make your lifes easier too since you don't have to bother with all stupid opininions that people would like to tell to each other about the Suns.

To elindholm's leave: He is one of my favourite posters here on this board. Since our first debate (remember, is Gasol a SF or not?) I always respected his opinion. In fact, I usually read threads when the last post is made by some posters like elindholm, thegrahamcrackr, Joe Mama or Errntknight.

If these posters start to leave the board there is no real reason for me to visit this board.
 
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hcsilla

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Chaplin said:
True, it is their prerogative to do that. It is not a "public" forum, it is private.

I really don't get this argument. Almost every forum is private. It always has an owner so it's private.

Does that mean that their purpose of running this site is reading opinions that they like? If so I ask one more time: why do they make themselves nervous with running a website at all?
 

George O'Brien

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I can't really imagine this board without Eric. Like most people I've had my run-in's with him, but it's a lot more interesting to disagree with someone who is obviously intelligent and thoughtful than the trolls I see on other boards.

As for people not reading Erics posts closely enough, I'm sure that's true. It happens to me all the time, but I don't take it personally. If people didn't get my point, then I feel it's my fault and not theirs (although sometimes I suspect that people misread intentionally.) :bang:

In any case, I'm not really clear as to what the exact issues are in terms of posts being deleted or moved. I'd like to know more about exactly what happend. I've never moderated a board and have no deeply held position on what is and is not appropriate monitor behavior.

If someone of the stature of Eric thinks there is a problem, then there is a problem of perception if nothing else. I like to see it addressed.
 
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Chris_Sanders

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George O'Brien said:
I can't really imagine this board without Eric. Like most people I've had my run-in's with him, but it's a lot more interesting to disagree with someone who is obviously intelligent and thoughtful.

As for people not reading Erics posts closely enough, I'm sure that's true. It happens to me all the time, but I don't take it personally. If people didn't get my point, then I feel it's my fault and not theirs (although sometimes I suspect that people misread intentionally.) :bang:

I'm not really clear as to what the exact issues are in terms of posts being deleted or moved. I'd like to know more about exactly what happend. I've never moderated a board and have no deeply held position on what is and is not appropriate monitor behavior.

Appharently one of the other mods was merging things he felt were of like subject matter.

I have no idea. I stopped doing anything with this board more than a week ago.
 

Chris_Sanders

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The funny thing is the entire time I have been on self imposed hiatus everyone was probably saying "That damn Sanders, look what he has done now!!"
 

Chaplin

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Chris_Sanders said:
Would you care to give some examples because I do nothing but defend you and your right to post here.

In the last year I believe I have said one unkind word to you, and that was in the middle of some dumb thread that I don't even recall.

I don't remember the thread either, but it wasn't simply a dispute about a fact or opinion, it was a personal attack that in no way came from an attack in kind from me on you. It was very memorable because it came out of nowhere. I apologize for singling you out, but that was the last time someone said something to me, and it was particularly vicious.
 

Chaplin

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Chris_Sanders said:
The funny thing is the entire time I have been on self imposed hiatus everyone was probably saying "That damn Sanders, look what he has done now!!"

Part of that is you really are the only one that owns up to doing anything on the board. Doesn't mean anybody is right in singling you out on this issue, but you ARE the most visible of all the moderators.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Chaplin said:
I don't remember the thread either, but it wasn't simply a dispute about a fact or opinion, it was a personal attack that in no way came from an attack in kind from me on you. It was very memorable because it came out of nowhere. I apologize for singling you out, but that was the last time someone said something to me, and it was particularly vicious.

At the time I thought you were attacking me as well. In reflection it was all very dumb and just a misunderstanding.

I really do like you Chaplin. I am certainly not your enemy.
 

Chaplin

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Chris_Sanders said:
At the time I thought you were attacking me as well. In reflection it was all very dumb and just a misunderstanding.

I really do like you Chaplin. I am certainly not your enemy.

Back at ya Sanders. :D

Like I said, it was the most recent item. There was a lot that has happened over the years--Chandler Mike can attest to that.
 
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reader

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I always enjoy Eric's opinions, I like his dry wit and I will be sorry if he does leave the forum.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Chaplin said:
Part of that is you really are the only one that owns up to doing anything on the board. Doesn't mean anybody is right in singling you out on this issue, but you ARE the most visible of all the moderators.

What does it get me? My name smeared all over, a bunch of blame for stuff I don't do, a completely thankless job that sucks up hours of my free time, and more that I won't discuss here...

The honest truth?

After the teeth kicking I took on here from the Lakers game on, I didn't watch games 5 or 6 of the Suns/Dallas. I didn't post on here or any other fan board and I barely glanced at the box scores.

So if anyone pissed anyone off since game 4, it wasn't me and sorry but I don't have a ton of sympathy right now.
 

JCSunsfan

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Well, Eric, I'm in the dark about whatever particular run-ins you've had with the moderators. I know you are not the type to play games, but you really might reconsider. Post less if you like, but I would encourage you to remain.

Honestly, this board is much more informed and mild with the personal attacks than the other boards I peek in from time to time. I also appreciate the fact that there is much more intelligent discussion and less profanity and flaming.

Keep it clean, and passionate, even if we disagree, its fine by me. Good grief, I disagree with myself sometimes.
 

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Ryanwb said:
I'm just going to throw this out there. I have been with the core of these posters since 1999 I have followed 3-4 different boards until finally landing here. I think there is a certain underlying elitism that exists in all facets of this board. This occurs in the Suns forum, Cardinals forum, etc.... People who have been long time posters feel territorial like there is a certain general understanding on opinions. For example if a subject like Marion being traded has been talked to death for a year or so and a new poster joins the board and brings up the subject, often this person is met with ill will and negativity and posts like, "Here we go again" or "This has been talked to death". Basically I think a "post predjudice" exists.... in every single forum on here (except the Arizona Sting because nobody reads that forum anyway)

This is just my observation and I have met so many other people from this board in the "real world" and they all echo that general opinion.

I wish there was a smiley that has a hammer hitting a nail on the head. New peoples ideas are quickly dismissed because the core posters think they know better. I'm not going to pretend to know what happens here, because I've stayed away from here for a long time for mostly the same reasons ask Skorp, but this is rampent on the Cardinals board.
 

Errntknght

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Well this sure sucks, Eric. Who will I ever have a heated argument with if you leave?

I guess I don't pay enough attention to know just what the moderators are doing with threads... now and then I notice a thread or a post disappearing but its almost never something I'm interested in. Mainly I notice complaints about that happening. I mean, I'm trying to understand what the problem is you're having with this because it doesn't appear to me to be that pervasive or significant.

I may well miss it if one my posts was deleted or moved but I've never noticed it happening and I've surely posted as many unpopular opinions as anyone on this board - at least percentagewise. Are the problems with threads/posts which are OT? (I tend to skip over those.)

As far as being the target of negativity or hostility... Oh what the heck, I've always figured you were a hard headed Swede so nothing I'm going to say will influence your decision. (I'm a Norski, wouldn't you know.) Anyway, I hope you find a more congenial place to post. Come back and tell us about it, if you do.
 

Mike Olbinski

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Sanders...probably people blame things on you at times, like Chaplin said, because you are the most visible...

And also, no regular user can know WHO is merging, deleting or banning users, unless they speak up. So they may just assume it's you.
 

Mike Olbinski

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Chaplin said:
Back at ya Sanders. :D

Like I said, it was the most recent item. There was a lot that has happened over the years--Chandler Mike can attest to that.



Looooooong history..... :D
 

Tank

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Count me in as someone that has been around since the Backcourt days who will be extremely dissapointed if Eric truly does stop posting. I hope you reconsider your decision. While I have a low post count, I read this board multiple times a day, and while there are threads and posts that I skip over because of things that are posted by new people, there are certain posters that I make a point to read what they say and Eric is one of them.

If this is the last post on this board for you, I hope to run in to you again somewhere down the line.
 

Joe Mama

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Sorry. I haven't done any real moderating since probably a month before the start of the regular season. I used to read just about every single post on this message board, but that's just impossible anymore.

I know people have good intentions, but I have always liked the hands-off approach. I rarely felt there was a reason to ban someone, delete a post cobble move a thread, etc. when I was more active here. In fact the only things I really like to actually "moderate" are the posts where there is profanity or people are getting too personal. That's why I haven't had to do much moderation here. This is one of the most civil message boards I've ever seen, and it's easily the most civil sports message board I have seen.

HeavyB3 said:
I wish there was a smiley that has a hammer hitting a nail on the head. New peoples ideas are quickly dismissed because the core posters think they know better. I'm not going to pretend to know what happens here, because I've stayed away from here for a long time for mostly the same reasons ask Skorp, but this is rampent on the Cardinals board.

I'm conflicted here. I have seen new posters get treated to hostility here. I've actually sent a handful of private messages to certain people about this. That said, this happens EVERYWHERE. If any poster of much less a new one comes only message board and starts a thread about something that has been discussed to exhaustion, especially recently (right there with him a couple threads), or they start a thread about something that is completely off-the-wall or impossible someone will likely call them on it.

Again, this is most civil sports message board I've seen.

I have no idea where Jim is coming from here. Sure, there is a lot of Kool-Aid here, but that's no different from any other sports message board on the Internet. I would say there is a lot more objectivity here than most other sports message boards. Just because nobody really agrees with you that the Phoenix Suns are done with in the end of the world is near there is too much Kool-Aid? That's crazy. In my house I'm usually the one who brings the Phoenix Suns expectations/love down to earth. If Jim took my place I have a brother and a brother-in-law who probably would have hung themselves by now.

Eric, your posts will definitely be missed around here.

Joe
 

Djaughe

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elindholm said:
.... I have to ask myself: If my electronic words sail off into cyberspace without actually being read, can they really be considered communication? And if not, then why am I doing it?...

The real reason for leaving.
 

Arizona's Finest

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Guys I am seriously confused. I have read/posted on this board as much as anyone since i came on and I have no idea what anyone is talking about in terms "merging threads" and people getting banned. I dont't get the feeling that the moderators are acting like a mini-gestapo and while I am convinced many readers skip over my posts and credit others after they make the same point three posts later (but not as eloquently of course;) ) but i would never let it get to me.

Basically i use this site as a way to read any/all national cardinal/suns/dbacks/UA articles that i may not have found while surfing. I use it to drop occasional trade ideas or get into some discourse about what others are talking about. I rarely get PM's and I have never had a moderator tell me to "tone it down" in any other way than a post after going at it with a Sundevil fan. I read the threads i want - don't respond to 90% of the crap i find to be uniformed and ignorant and try my best to be open to different lines of thought and people having different view points. If anything - i would like more opposition to what i post as i try to lay my argument out clearly and love it when someone has a different viewpoint and actually has a clear writing style and an ability to make valid points. Thats why i think losing Eric will suck because i have become accustomed to his points and even start to formulate what he will think when an original topic comes up. And then i start to form my rebuttal:D

Seriously i am confused as hell about all this and i'm with cheese on this. MB's are to let off steam under a psuedonym and should be considered for fun, information gatehring and a way for people who have no Phoenix contact to converse with other fans of their team. Lets take it as is (a fun area for discourse) and maybe the Mods will follow suit ....
 

jibikao

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Oh oh, who is going to correct my grammar... ?

I am somewhat "new" here. This board is great. There are always going to be different opinions. I can't convince anyone through typing... lol This is the nature of internet chat/forum.

Edit: Wow, I have 3074 posts already??!!! If you want to talk about being insulted, somebody used my login name "jibikao" in the regular chatroom. I got kicked out 2 times when I went to the chatroom and I had no idea why I got kicked out. lol Then somebody said I was cursing nonstop in the chat but that wasn't me. I didn't even watch many games in the series 'cause I chose not to. I only joined the chat probably 2-3 times in the whole playoff run. I was mad but whatever... too bad that chat system can't detect IP addresses.
 
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Gaddabout

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I've only joined since July 2004, but I've lurked for much longer, and I remember some of you from the azcentral boards, of which it was my job to manage up until June 2003. The problems there were software and a malicious poster who had nothing better to do than to antagonize Suns and Cardinals fans 16 hours a day. I didn't blame anyone for leaving, and I've always been impressed with the insulated community y'all built here.

I don't really understand why Eric's leaving now, though. I guess I've tuned out any of the politics that go on around here. It's just sad to me to see such a prominent poster go, particularly one in whom I felt a buffer for my own opinion. We agree on much, and I don't feel like I'm always out on a limb around here because of it. Mostly, though, it's disappointing to see this community kind of reflex in itself. It's a good thing here. I've been participating and managing message boards since 1994. I've yet to run into a more vibrant and harmonious independent sports community like this one. Eric definitely is a part of that, and I hope he reconsiders.
 

scoutmasterdave

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Add this mostly-lurker to the crowd that will greatly miss Eric's posts. I always enjoyed his injection of rational thought and humor into the conversation.

<soapbox>
I have also become increasingly upset with the way the board has been moderated. Just this morning I clicked on an email alert to get back to one of Eric's threads (the most recent PHX/TOR/MIN trade proposal), only to find it was a dead link (merged into the trade thread, perhaps? I couldn't find it...).

IMHO, the best boards are those where the perception is that the posters police themselves. Frankly, on most of the boards I'm on, I don't know who the moderators are. Furthermore, since I tend to behave myself, I shouldn't need to know. In the last couple months, that has changed here - it's obvious that the board is being actively and heavily moderated. I'm not blaming anyone in particular, since I don't know who has been moving threads, etc., but I feel a moderator's place is to police language and eliminate the legitimate trolls.

I don't feel that moderators should be organizing the board, consolidating threads, etc., unless there are extenuating circumstances. Who cares if there are 12 trade threads open and active? That's what we talk about during the summer. Such actions do nothing but confuse people and create an environment of censorship and intolerance.

I'm sure the moderators and admins of this board mean well, and I do appreciate the time and effort they sacrifice. As someone responsible for the operation of a large eCommerce site, I know how difficult a job it is - that is certainly not lost on me.

I just hope things can change before more good posters like Eric are forced to leave.
</soapbox>
 

DevonCardsFan

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elindholm said:
This post isn’t specifically related to the Suns, but since my contributions on this board have been almost exclusively in this forum, I request that it be permitted to remain here. I also request that my account be allowed to remain active, so that I can continue to use other features of the board, including private messages.

First of all, I need to state clearly how grateful I am to the administrators of this board for all of the time, money, and energy that they have put in over the years and continue to put in now. I have never enjoyed any internet family as much as I have enjoyed this one, and I will miss interacting with a great many of the posters here. Even though I’ve never met any of the other contributors, and in fact spoken on the phone with only one, I feel that I have many friends here. This Suns forum has been the top browser bookmark on every computer I’ve had over the last several years. It will be very hard to break the habit of checking it regularly, and in fact I doubt that I will -– I claim only that I will stop posting.

One of my most powerful memories of this board will be of what happened on September 11th, 2001. Soon after the news broke, posters flocked to this board to share their reactions. Naturally, the discourse got a bit heated at times, as everyone’s nerves were a bit frayed. But here was a group of people who, until that moment, had been united only by sports -– and electronically at that -– and who were now coming together in the face of the most terrifying national tragedy any of us had experienced. And what was most remarkable was that no one told us to assemble for this electronic town meeting: We all came on our own, driven by instinct to trust that we would be here for one another, even though there was no logical reason for us to do so.

The board was a true community then.

Recently, times have changed. A new group of moderators, surely meaning well (and, if their claims are genuine, simply following directives from above), have created an atmosphere of fear and intolerance. Posts deemed to be off-topic or raising unpopular issues get moved, reclassified, or deleted. Posters who fall out of step with the new order face censure, exile to other forums, or banishment. Where competing ideas once flowed freely, now they are compartmentalized, squelched, and systematically, aggressively devalued.

The difference is, at its heart, philosophical: Is diversity something to be embraced, or merely tolerated? A true community, in my opinion, recognizes the immeasurable value of competing ideas. It is only through having our beliefs challenged that we are forced to examine them critically, in a process that sharpens our thinking, expands our horizons, and brings us wisdom. In a pseudo-community, by contrast, everyone is already “in agreement,” content to recycle the same popular stances, in a vacuous dance that masquerades as the pursuit of true understanding but in reality is the antithesis of open-minded curiosity.

Several longtime posters have raised objections to the policy shift, and all have met with the same response: This is our board, we run it the way we want to, and if you don’t like it, leave. Well, okay. I will. I have spent thousands of hours contributing to this community in part because I believed that those contributions were appreciated. But welcoming any one voice means welcoming it in its entirety, not just to the extent that it harmonizes with what everyone else is already saying. Are the only desirable traits in any contributor limited to the things that he has in common with everybody else?

On a related note, I have become increasingly frustrated with persistent criticism from a few posters that I am uninformed, excessively pessimistic, or interested only in putting people down. I have, to be sure, often been very aggressive in pointing out what I believe to be sloppy or muddled thinking. But the fight has always been to preserve the proper relationship between evidence and conclusion, to focus properly on the substance of any debate, and to point out how far objective information can get you if you only give it a chance. The most likely explanation I can come up with for the attacks against me is that the posters responsible simply aren’t paying very careful attention; no one who has read my posts and really thought of them could reach those conclusions, even if they came away thinking that I was not a particularly nice person. Again, then, the board seems to have reached a stage where many posters want only to talk and not to listen, voices sailing right past one another, oblivious to their surroundings. Like the riddler’s tree alone in the forest, I have to ask myself: If my electronic words sail off into cyberspace without actually being read, can they really be considered communication? And if not, then why am I doing it?

It will sadden me not to share the joy of future Suns successes with this passionate, tightly knit family. But, just as on September 11th, there are issues in play that I believe go beyond sports and speak directly to our values and our sense of humanity. If this essay causes one person to open his mind just a bit more, it will have been worth the time to write. Whether that happens or not, however, I have reached the conclusion that it just isn’t appropriate for me to continue trying to do what I do in an environment that is becoming increasingly resistant and hostile.

Although I am leaving on somewhat unhappy terms, I again want to thank the board’s administrators for all they have done over the years. Overall, this site is an admirable success, and I wish you all the best.

It is like the third Reich in here, it makes me post very little. Any intersting discussion gets smashed, This site gets way over policed. There not policing Trolls or Spammer, there restricting thoughts and opinions that do not coincide with there own belief system. It is happening globally, so I am not surprised this is happining.
 
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dreamcastrocks

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DevonCardsFan said:
It is like the third Reich in here, it makes me post very little. Any intersting discussion gets smashed, This site gets way over policed. There not policing Trolls or Spammer, there restricting thoughts and opinions that do not coincide with there own belief system. It is happening globally, so I am not surprised this is happining.

Third Reich... :biglaugh:
 
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