Why I would take Gabbert over Newton

[vinnymac]

If you listen to Ken Whisenhunt interview, you know he wants to sign a veteran QB. imo, I don't think the Cardinals are going to be drafting a qb with the #5 pick. When you are picking at 5 every position is a need. So I think the Cardinals are going o-line or defense.

 

[joeshmo]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=232016

Here you go Joe.

Go to this link and start looking at the game drives. You will see that Cam Newton legs and his running back is a huge reason why he had success passing the ball. There are a couple of games where he didn't throw a single touchdown just ran for them.

You are reaching. Of course he isn't going to score all 30 of his passing TD's in the 4th quarter. Of course you wont score a passing TD in every single game. Happens to even the best ones.

Your link which is the same exact link I got the quarter splits from, still doesn't prove anything about your comment in fact the exact opposite.

(att, yards, TD's)
1st quarter rushing stats - 51,305,8
2nd quarter rushing stats - 77,518,5
3rd quarter rushing stats - 67,345,5
4th quarter rushing stats - 68,303,2

""They don't realize most of his passing touchdown came later on in the game when the opposing defense was trying to stop him running the ball""

Passing and Running stats show this comment to be completely false. The bulk of his passing TD's came in the 1st half, heck same is true for his rushing TD's.

 

[Chopper0080]

I am not on board for either. This might be the most overvalued QB class in recent memory with the number of QB's that they are talking up for the first round and the skills they bring.

 

[desertdawg]

I am not on board for either. This might be the most overvalued QB class in recent memory with the number of QB's that they are talking up for the first round and the skills they bring.

No way homie. We aint picking this low again for a good spell. Newton is gonna be a stud and I think Gabbert will be a pretty good QB. (Newton>Gabbert) If Newton is gone, I still take Gabbert....

Newbbert!

 

[Chopper0080]

No way homie. We aint picking this low again for a good spell. Newton is gonna be a stud and I think Gabbert will be a pretty good QB. (Newton.Gabbert) If Newton is gone, I still take Gabbert....

Newbbert!

They are both "shake weights" in my opinion. A ton hype for very little substance.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Newton has announced that he will participate in full at the combine.

My guess is that he will be #1 on my list by this time next week.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Newton is a humongous turd of a person IMO, but Gabbert doesn't have Newton's ability.

 

[Hypothesis]

Newton is a humongous turd of a person IMO, but Gabbert doesn't have Newton's ability.

Eh...Newton made some poor choices. I'm not beyond forgiveness as long as he shows he can change.

I'm not for drafting either of these QBs though. They are tops in a pretty weak QB class. I'd rather grab Ponder or Stanzi later. I think I'm leaning more toward Stanzi in the 4th, if the FO decides to grab a QB.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Eh...Newton made some poor choices. I'm not beyond forgiveness as long as he shows he can change.

I'm not for drafting either of these QBs though. They are tops in a pretty weak QB class. I'd rather grab Ponder or Stanzi later. I think I'm leaning more toward Stanzi in the 4th, if the FO decides to grab a QB.

See..... I think there is only one transcendent talent in this draft.... Cam Newton.

Whether he works out in the NFL or not will be based on "immeasurable's" like....

• Will he watch tape all season long, thirsting for more information?
• Does he have an innate desire to crush everyone in his path?
• Does he share Karl Malone's work ethic about tuning his body up in the gym?
• Can he anticipate throwing windows 4 steps before Ed Reed closes it?
• Will he hang around in the pocket long enough to be a QB with legs or will he be a running back with an arm?
• Does he have the ability to handle millions of dollars without letting it go to his head?
• Will he be able to command a huddle with people older, richer, and more experience under his belt?

Even Peyton Manning had his doubters. That is why processes are put in place to find the best talents in the game.

Cam Newton is the most physically gifted person in this draft. Patrick Peterson (IMO) is second. I have Peterson first on my list because of what Oregon did to Newton in the BCS game. That fades the farther from it that I get because I start to remember Cam against LSU, Alabama, and South Carolina. And the way he set the tempo on opening drives this year in the freaking SEC. I don't think the ball hit the ground once on opening drives this year. Amazing. IN THE SEC.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Eh...Newton made some poor choices. I'm not beyond forgiveness as long as he shows he can change.

I'm not for drafting either of these QBs though. They are tops in a pretty weak QB class. I'd rather grab Ponder or Stanzi later. I think I'm leaning more toward Stanzi in the 4th, if the FO decides to grab a QB.

See I'm all for forgiveness; I totally forgive Michael Vick and I'm happy to see his redemption story. But I don't want to be the Atlanta Falcons.

Not only was he kicked out of Florida for having stolen goods, stories of him cheating are rampant. He also had 12 traffic tickets over the past 2 years (I haven't gotten that many in the past 15 years) and then there is that pay for play scheme that he was supposedly not a part of. While that may be the case, I doubt he had nothing to do with it.

It's hard for me to bank a high draft pick with a guy with so many character questions, not to mention his on-the-field questions. He's a very flawed, very talented prospect. If we drafted him, I'd be behind him 100% and would give him the benefit of the doubt, but I just can't shake the feeling that he's a prima donna, me first jock who's lived a life of privilege and that he could be trouble.

 

[desertdawg]

See I'm all for forgiveness; I totally forgive Michael Vick and I'm happy to see his redemption story. But I don't want to be the Atlanta Falcons.

Not only was he kicked out of Florida for having stolen goods, stories of him cheating are rampant. He also had 12 traffic tickets over the past 2 years (I haven't gotten that many in the past 15 years) and then there is that pay for play scheme that he was supposedly not a part of. While that may be the case, I doubt he had nothing to do with it.

It's hard for me to bank a high draft pick with a guy with so many character questions, not to mention his on-the-field questions. He's a very flawed, very talented prospect. If we drafted him, I'd be behind him 100% and would give him the benefit of the doubt, but I just can't shake the feeling that he's a prima donna, me first jock who's lived a life of privilege and that he could be trouble.

Over and over with this Cambash stuff, do you know how many traffic stops it was? You know you can get more than one ticket in a stop right?

He wasn't in clubs smoking blunts, clackin gats, and flockin the honeys.
He was working out like he always does and his athleticism shows his work ethic. He is always studying film and playbooks, he left Florida because of Teebow, really though. Dude made plenty of mistakes, but people can spin it so well when trying to prove a point.

Laptop? He can buy 1,000 of them, he was the first one to go out and get a QB coach to start preparing for the NFL, he is going full on in the combine, and will destroy the comp.
You probably don't have anything to worry about because others will see the same things, and take him before we are up.
This kid was groomed for football, and sometimes that kind of pressure gets to a kid, especially when he was bought and sold in college, something I think he had no control over, but handled like a man and a Champion.

 

[Buckybird]

4 months ago Newton was probably rated as a 3rd or 4th round draft pick, has played 1 year of major college football & I'm quite sure his athletic ability while shine next week at the combine, like most skilled athletes trained for the event should...now people are talking about him being a top 5 pick!!! Buyer beware!!!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

4 months ago Newton was probably rated as a 3rd or 4th round draft pick, has played 1 year of major college football & I'm quite sure his athletic ability while shine next week at the combine, like most skilled athletes trained for the event should...now people are talking about him being a top 5 pick!!! Buyer beware!!!

Who of consequence would give a player who generated 50 TDs in one season a third or fourth round grade?

 

[vinnymac]

You are reaching. Of course he isn't going to score all 30 of his passing TD's in the 4th quarter. Of course you wont score a passing TD in every single game. Happens to even the best ones.

Your link which is the same exact link I got the quarter splits from, still doesn't prove anything about your comment in fact the exact opposite.

(att, yards, TD's)
1st quarter rushing stats - 51,305,8
2nd quarter rushing stats - 77,518,5
3rd quarter rushing stats - 67,345,5
4th quarter rushing stats - 68,303,2

""They don't realize most of his passing touchdown came later on in the game when the opposing defense was trying to stop him running the ball""

Passing and Running stats show this comment to be completely false. The bulk of his passing TD's came in the 1st half, heck same is true for his rushing TD's.

Not reaching at all man. You have to get the flow of the game. Running came first. Preach & twist stats all you want to prove yourself right. Just read the drives for all the games. Maybe just watch some of his game. Having a spectacular game againist Chatanooga(spell check please) isn't what I call surprising. Your suppose to have those kind of games againist those kind of teams.

The two games that Newton didn't throw a td in he had to win with his leg. All I am saying is that people are in aww of his athletic talent and not with what makes a potential succesfull qb in the nfl. Maybe I am wrong about the kid. God bless me if I am.

 

[PACardsFan]

They are both "shake weights" in my opinion. A ton hype for very little substance.

I have to agree with you. Some on this board rightfully are concerned about Newton's character flaws. So am I, but that is NOT the sole reason I'd stay away from Newton with the 5th pick. The kid has played ONE stinking year of college ball. I've looked at a ton of his videos & I don't come away reassured that he will be a good NFL QB. He's still a run first & pass second QB. If he was as elusive as Michael Vick, then I could understand the hype. He isn't even close. The speed of the NFL will neutralize this kid big time. Can he go through his progressions at the next level? I don't think so. He couldn't do it in college. He looked the way of his intended receiver. If not open, he ran. That can work at Auburn. It won't work in the NFL. If we draft Newton, we will rue the day. Don't worry folks, the Bidwills would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER entertain the thought. Unless we trade down, we will go defense with that pick.

 

[Buckybird]

Who of consequence would give a player who generated 50 TDs in one season a third or fourth round grade?

CC, maybe you missed the time frame I based his rise on. 4 months ago was in October & I would almost bet, nobody had Newton projected even close to the first round & probably in rd 3 or 4. The last QB I remember who shot up draft boards after 1 season of college football was Akili Smith...we all know how that turned out. As I said buyer beware!!!

Newton may turn out to be a solid NFL QB, but IMO will never be a great. He will never lead a team to a Super Bowl as a QB because thats reserved for pocket passers & NFL history says that. Newton is a pure project & if I'm an NFL GM, I wouldn't touch the kid before round 3 because he simply hasn't played more than 1 season in major college football. Less than 300 pass attempts doesnt justify rd 1 status to me regardless of his skills or upside.

Todd McShay analyzed the last 17 QB who ran similar offenses in college going back to Michael Vick...only 1 has actually amounted to more than any other Joe & that was Vick. And it took Vick how many years to finally fulfill his potential? The odds of Newton being anywhere near the top passers in todays game are slim IMO based on many of the factors I've said in this thread. And thats not even taken into consideration his character flaws that would scare away many teams. We'll see...

 

[Crazy Canuck]

CC, maybe you missed the time frame I based his rise on. 4 months ago was in October & I would almost bet, nobody had Newton projected even close to the first round & probably in rd 3 or 4. The last QB I remember who shot up draft boards after 1 season of college football was Akili Smith...we all know how that turned out. As I said buyer beware!!!

Newton may turn out to be a solid NFL QB, but IMO will never be a great. He will never lead a team to a Super Bowl as a QB because thats reserved for pocket passers & NFL history says that. Newton is a pure project & if I'm an NFL GM, I wouldn't touch the kid before round 3 because he simply hasn't played more than 1 season in major college football. Less than 300 pass attempts doesnt justify rd 1 status to me regardless of his skills or upside.

Todd McShay analyzed the last 17 QB who ran similar offenses in college going back to Michael Vick...only 1 has actually amounted to more than any other Joe & that was Vick. And it took Vick how many years to finally fulfill his potential? The odds of Newton being anywhere near the top passers in todays game are slim IMO based on many of the factors I've said in this thread. And thats not even taken into consideration his character flaws that would scare away many teams. We'll see...

Well, evidently Roger Staubach and Joe Theismann, neither of whom were classic pocket passers, managed to sneak in without that exclusive reservation.

Spare me the comparison with Akili Smith who was not near the athlete, and was even an absolute failure in the CFL. No one is destined for greatness, or failure. Newton has exceptional tools, and it is left to be seen how they develop and mature. So, yes... we will see.

 

[vinnymac]

Joe,

I am going to have to get on the Ryan Mallet bus if the Cardinals are going to draft a qb with the #5 pick. Way better stats than Newton and Gabbert as far as a qb.

 

[Hypothesis]

Joe,

I am going to have to get on the Ryan Mallet bus if the Cardinals are going to draft a qb with the #5 pick. Way better stats than Newton and Gabbert as far as a qb.

That's because all the drugs he did made the game slow waaaay down for him maaaaaan.

 

[Chopper0080]

Here is the list of QB's currently in the NFL that were picked in the first round and had only 2 years of starting experience in major college football programs like Blaine Gabbert does.

Aaron Rodgers
Michael Vick
Alex Smith
David Carr
Mark Sanchez
Joe Flacco
Vince Young

Here is the list of QB's currently in the NFL that were picked in the first round and had only 1 year of starting experience in major college football programs like Cam Newton has.

?

I don't like either of the numbers here. 4 current starters in the 2 year group and 0 in the 1 year.

 

[desertdawg]

Here is the list of QB's currently in the NFL that were picked in the first round and had only 2 years of starting experience in major college football programs like Blaine Gabbert does.

Aaron Rodgers
Michael Vick
Alex Smith
David Carr
Mark Sanchez
Joe Flacco
Vince Young

Here is the list of QB's currently in the NFL that were picked in the first round and had only 1 year of starting experience in major college football programs like Cam Newton has.

?

I don't like either of the numbers here. 4 current starters in the 2 year group and 0 in the 1 year.

Newton is by far the better QB (IMO), but I like Gabbert too at #5. Those stats are pretty telling about picking a QB in the first, but that's about it homie.

 

[Chopper0080]

Newton is by far the better QB (IMO), but I like Gabbert too at #5. Those stats are pretty telling about picking a QB in the first, but that's about it homie.

My point is that looking at the current NFL, players with two years or less of starting college football experience are pretty risky picks for the first round. For all of those questioning Robert Quinn's bust factor at 5, they shold be terrified of taking one of these two QB's.

 

[desertdawg]

My point is that looking at the current NFL, players with two years or less of starting college football experience are pretty risky picks for the first round. For all of those questioning Robert Quinn's bust factor at 5, they shold be terrified of taking one of these two QB's.

Oh I can dig it, it's just Cam Newton we are talking about. The more I watch him, his game got crazy better as the season went along and teams tried everything they could to stop him. He just made smart plays and had the body to make them, he ran a whole lot in the beginning of the Auburn season. Then got labeled a running QB so he threw his ass off. Then he mixed the two skills quite well towards the end of the season.

There is a post in here somewhere where I stated I hoped he didn't have the best game against Oregon, so we might get him. I wanted Luck to come out, we couldn't get him but it would help out with Cam.

Gabbert is a good QB IMO, I think he will pick up the NFL speed quicker than the others. I just think Newton doesn't lose, that's the way he plays.

 

[Buckybird]

Well, evidently Roger Staubach and Joe Theismann, neither of whom were classic pocket passers, managed to sneak in without that exclusive reservation.

Spare me the comparison with Akili Smith who was not near the athlete, and was even an absolute failure in the CFL. No one is destined for greatness, or failure. Newton has exceptional tools, and it is left to be seen how they develop and mature. So, yes... we will see.

CC, good one about Theismann because he never even crossed my mind coming from Notre Dame & because the only 2 I thought of were Staubach & Tarkenton though I never saw him play a college game. 3 QB's out of 45 games still isn't great odds.

With that said I'm not trying to stir it up with you or Dawg on the disagreement about Newton. I'm trying to look at the kid as a HC, GM or scout might look at the total package & not as a fan. IMO the red flags outweigh his positives & the history of success/failure of QB's that have brought some of the same skillsets to the NFL as a QB. I pray to the big man upstairs Wiz & Co. have no interest in drafting him, but again...we will see.

 

[Cam Newton]

I would take Gabbert over Newton because of perceived intelligence. Both have the size and strength needed to be a starting qb. The skill sets appear to be there. However, Gabbert made the all Big 12 academic team majoring in business. Newton was kicked out of Florida for stealing a computer and cheating on a test. Additionally his father is running his career.

Successful qbs need to be able to read the defenses thrown at them. The playback has also become quite complicated. You also need to have a qb that can study film and understand a full game plan.

It will be interesting to see how they do on the Wonderlic test at the Combine.
I'm not saying that Newton is stupid but I am saying that Gabbert is smart.

lol