Why is Kasper third on the depth chart for the Bears game?

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
You know guys, we are arguing between multiple, good choices for a change. If Kasper is our 6th WR, that says nothing but good things our entire corps of receivers.

Do you not trust Jerry Sullivan's judgment? I do. He has a long track record of success.

I agree that we apparently have an abundance of talent at WR, which is definately a good thing. I have no problem at all with turning over Boston, Sanders, and Jenkins for the depth we have now.

I do trust Sullivan. I just see Kasper catch whatever's thrown at him.

Next year we could definately be looking like the Browns at receiver. Personally I'd take the Saints trio over anyone's, but we could be five deep this time next year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
I agree that we apparently have an abundance of talent at WR.


I do trust Sullivan. I just see Kasper catch whatever's thrown at him.

Come on 11 - an abundance of talent - how do we know that? These are guy, by and large (excluding Boldin and Johnson) who have been cut from numerous squads and never been starers anywhere. Just because we have a lot of bodies doesn't mean there is an abundance of talent. If that were the case, I don't we'd be talking so much about our WRs - we have no idea if they are somehow gonna be better than they ever have been during the career and the notes I hear from camp and what I saw in the scrimmage and what I'v eheard from the game so far, tells me we have quantity at WR, that don't equate to quality.

I trust Sullivan in being able to get the best out of players who have great talent. As far as picking diamonds from the rough and developing that, well I ain't seen it yet - his last pet project signed a miminum contract with the Falcons this year.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
I agree that we apparently have an abundance of talent at WR, which is definately a good thing. I have no problem at all with turning over Boston, Sanders, and Jenkins for the depth we have now.

Don't confuse a bunch of guys at the same talent level for an abundance of talent. Just because we're having a hard time discerning who the best three WRs are out of this bunch doesn't mean they're all talented.

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Do you not trust Jerry Sullivan's judgment? I do. He has a long track record of success. You need faith and patience.

Many of you are coming to the wrong conclusions based on circumstances. I've been trying to redirect opinions based on better access than you have. That's all. I have no crystal ball but I do know that Jerry Sullivan has big plans for Gilmore, McAddley, and Boldin.

If I was in Phoenix, I'd ask Jerry Sullivan about the WR rankings. However, I'm on vacation at my summer cabin. When I make it back to Phoenix in two weeks, I'll make sure to talk to Sullivan. Maybe he'll tell me something, maybe he won't.

Skkorp:

Jerry Sullivan's probably forgotten more about football than I'll ever know. This is my hobby. It's his life. I know the difference.

I understand Jason McAddley nursing a bum ankle. He showed some flashes last year (25-362, 1 TD) as a rookie starter over eight games. Anquan Boldin--based on one camp and a couple of preseason games--looks like he could be a star in this league.

I just don't get Bryan Gilmore. A Division II standout with great speed who came into the NFL as a UDFA and has done nothing in three years. I realize he was injured last year. He had one catch in seven games before getting hurt.

I'm sure Sullivan has plans for Gilmore. I just hope those plans come to fruition in the not-too-distant future.

I recognize that you have better access to the team's coaches and staff that most of us do, and I've appreciated reading your insights. Do me a favor. If Kevin Kasper winds up getting cut, and you think Sullivan will be forthcoming, I'd really like to know what Sullivan thought was wrong with Kasper's game, and why he wasn't worth investing more than one offseason in.

WC

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
I've got a quick question - and I don't mean to step on the toes of the all wonderful Jerry Sullivan, who I do think is a good coach, but sadly NOT OUR WR coach anymore and should be dealing more with getting this offense ready to go than anything else seeing how it's failed to score a touchdown in preseason or the scrimmage - but how many of those guys that Sullivan turned into great pros weren't guys who didn't already have that potential to be great in the first place? In Detroit there was Herman Moore and Johnnie Morton, Jermaine Crowell - right - weren't they both first and second round picks? David Boston - wasn't he a top ten pick? Frank Sanders - hadn't he become a reliable reciever for us, posting 1,000 yard seasons for us who hasn't come close to those numbers in the last two years under Sully? Then there was his project - Martay Jenkins - who had all the speed in the world - sounds like someone on this team, but never developed into a reciever worth anything. My question is this - Jerry seems to be able to bring the guys who have all the talent in the world up to their potential - that can not be doubted and he should get accolades for that because it is such a hard position to make the transition to. But what makes you think he can work mircales with a bunch of guys (Larry Foster, Gilmore, McAddley) who weren't up there in talent like the other people mentioned. Has he worked mircales like that before with undrafted FA and 2nd day picks?

His rep was largely made with Tony Martin who was an option QB that Sully turned into a good WR. Gilmore is a similar size and speed and I've seen him compared to Martin. I'm skeptical until I see it on the field but its' apparent Sullivan really likes him.

Disappointing that BJ is apparently dropping passes but he is trying to get it all down as a rookie so sometimes you are so worried about where you're supposed to be that you forget to make the catch?

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Come on 11 - an abundance of talent - how do we know that?

We don't yet, I just think physically this group is better than last years. I think they're faster and deeper. More importantly, last year between Boston, Sanders and Jenkins, that could have been the worst Veteran 'hands' squad run out onto an NFL field in years.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Amen

Originally posted by SECTION 11
We don't yet, I just think physically this group is better than last years. I think they're faster and deeper. More importantly, last year between Boston, Sanders and Jenkins, that could have been the worst Veteran 'hands' squad run out onto an NFL field in years.

Just watch the Cards yearbook on ESPN........bad snaps (or bad exchanges by Jake).....terrible throws.....and balls dropped......dropped balls are painful.

 

[mbuehner]

If Kevin Kasper winds up getting cut, and you think Sullivan will be forthcoming, I'd really like to know what Sullivan thought was wrong with Kasper's game, and why he wasn't worth investing more than one offseason in.

Fine, I'll say say it. Kasper is a white, 6th round, 6 foot tall wide receiver. Thats 3 strikes against him in the 'at first glance' catagory. No I don't think the Cards are racist or stupid, they just want their prototypical WR and arent interested in a guy that's going to overachieve for them, especially if he isnt one of Sullivan's 'guys'. They are taking potential over a guy that has proven he can make things happen in NFL regular season games. Well, potential gets you fired, as the saying goes. If they cut Kasper (as all the indications point to), that's the kind of mistake that comes back to haunt you. He's a special player and he'll make his mark somewhere.

 

[Pariah]

I don't know that I'd go as far to say that he's "special." But, I do hope he see's a lot of playing time this season because we need him. I wish I thought we were deep enough that we could cut him.

 

[Assface]

Re: Amen

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
dropped balls are painful.

 

[CardAvenger]

Originally posted by mbuehner
If they cut Kasper (as all the indications point to), that's the kind of mistake that comes back to haunt you. He's a special player and he'll make his mark somewhere.

I what are "all the indications" that are pointing to Kasper getting cut? I don't think that he'll get cut. He's a solid special teamer, and has good hands. They can't cut him, IMO. I was just wondering why he seemed to be burried on the depth chart when he was the only one doing anything.

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by mbuehner
If they cut Kasper (as all the indications point to), that's the kind of mistake that comes back to haunt you. He's a special player and he'll make his mark somewhere.

MB:

If the Cardinals cut Kevin Kasper, I hope the Rams pick him up. Then the Cards can watch him running back kicks and converting on 3rd downs, twice each season, for the next few years.

That could happen, actually. The Rams have been trying to replace Ricky Proehl ever since they lost him in free agency. Just this morning, on the KDUS morning show, Dale Hellestrae compared Kasper to Proehl, pointing out that Proehl has played 10-12 years in the NFL without ever being "the guy." Kasper is Proehl, with speed, pretty much.

The Cards got rid of Proehl, too. That was sure a good move, wasn't it?

WC

 

[Harpo]

I think this is a pretty strong indication.


Here's Pasch's question and Mac's response (transcribed from the tape):

DP--"Is Kevin Kasper another guy that you would say has made the most of his opportunities?"

DM--"Yup. Yeah, he really has. I mean, he's made the most of it. He comes up, and, uh, you know, comes up with some very key plays when he has to and that, to me, is something that, uh, you know, you can't discount. You know, it gets down to numbers sometimes, as far as to how many you can keep, but Kevin Kasper's done nothing but work every time we've given him a chance."


That's a real vote of confidence......a numbers thing? Since this is the first time I have even seen Kaspers name mentioned by a Cardinal coach, I would say that indications aren't pointing his way.

 

[CardinalChris]

I bet we keep 6 WR if they also handle all of our Pr and KR duties. Bush's flexibility adds that extra roster spot, along with Darling's ability to play inside and out.

BJ's biggest knock in college was stone hands, but he seemed to have cured that last year. he's a project, but he has some potential to become a viable starter, but probably not until his third year and definately not a game breaker.

 

[Tangodnzr]

The Cards have been keeping 6 WR's for the past few years, this year, of all years, certainly would not seem to be the one they suddenly decide to drop to only 5.

As was pointed out earlier. Kasper plays the slot or 3rd receiver pos. Not what I call the #1 postition that Gilmore/ McAddley do.

I can see what Mac means about "numbers".

As Skorpp said, he seems to be just where he should. I will be really surprised if he is cut. He represents everything Mac promotes . . . . hard work, high motor, versatile. I don't buy this "he's not Sullivans "boy" " stuff at all. That's an incredibly naive insinuation. Both Mac and Sullivan have never given any indication, of any kind, of operating like that. They are truly Professional's at what they do.

Whether Kasper makes the team or not, will strictly be on his merits, Period!!

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
The Cards have been keeping 6 WR's for the past few years, this year, of all years, certainly would not seem to be the one they suddenly decide to drop to only 5.

You sir are 100% correct. If there was ever a year to keep 6, this would be the one.

Is anyone else a bit concerned about Johnson? Not calling him a bust but geez reports sure leave alot to be desired.

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
I will be really surprised if (Kasper) is cut. He represents everything Mac promotes . . . . hard work, high motor, versatile. I don't buy this "he's not Sullivans "boy" " stuff at all. That's an incredibly naive insinuation. Both Mac and Sullivan have never given any indication, of any kind, of operating like that. They are truly Professional's at what they do.

Whether Kasper makes the team or not, will strictly be on his merits, Period!!

Tango:

It's entirely possible for even a respected professional like Jerry Sullivan to show preference toward players that he's been directly involved in selecting and developing, over a player picked up off waivers to fill a short-term need. There's nothing "naive" about identifying certain players as coaches' favorites. Every teacher has pets.

I think it's indicative that Kasper has been ranked behind the "top 5" since minicamps started--before Boldin and Johnson had even suited up, and when Foster had just arrived from Detroit--and ahead of only this year's UDFAs and practice squadders like Soliday and Poole. Short of taking snaps from center and playing DB, I don't know what else Kasper could've done in the Dallas game to raise his status. Nothing changed.

I'm willing to concede that there may be aspects of Kasper's game that need to be refined, that aren't apparent to a casual observer like me. I'd just like to know what they are, and why Kasper isn't worthy of the patient tutoring that's gone into a third-year project like Bryan Gilmore.

WC

 

[Tangodnzr]

Wildcard,

First of all let me say, Happy Belated Birthday, I missed posting that sooner, and also to say I have really enjoyed your posts here, its nice to see some new intelligent posters adding their comments.

As to Sullivan, I don't think there's anything unprofessional about Sully having preferences towards guys he's already spent time and worked with. To me he likes them for a reason, he's not a Buddy Ryan ego maniac type whose more concerned about his image than anything else. He likes them because he HAS spent time and knows them.

Now maybe he and Kasper are different type personalities, I really have no idea. I'm still not convinced that Sullivan doesn't like him, to begin with.
If there is a problem my only speculation might be . . . is Kasper maybe too free of a spirit for Sully's almost obsessive demand for perfection of execution, precise route running, etc. Kasper does seem to be a hard worker, but he also seems to have a little of that Pat Tillman in him. Is Kasper an avid student of Sully's teachings?
I would certainly think so, and I would also think its pretty unlikely that there is any real problem there to begin with.

Sully likes Gilmore....I say with good reason.
He obviously likes Foster...again through experience with him
He evidently likes McAddley....I'm not going to question that
Boldin and Johnson are obvious locks right now.

That leaves 1 spot left. I say it will indeed most likely be Kevin, at this point anyway.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by Harpo
I think this is a pretty strong indication.


Here's Pasch's question and Mac's response (transcribed from the tape):

DP--"Is Kevin Kasper another guy that you would say has made the most of his opportunities?"

DM--"Yup. Yeah, he really has. I mean, he's made the most of it. He comes up, and, uh, you know, comes up with some very key plays when he has to and that, to me, is something that, uh, you know, you can't discount. You know, it gets down to numbers sometimes, as far as to how many you can keep, but Kevin Kasper's done nothing but work every time we've given him a chance."


That's a real vote of confidence......a numbers thing? Since this is the first time I have even seen Kaspers name mentioned by a Cardinal coach, I would say that indications aren't pointing his way.

Maybe he was talking about the "numbers" in Denver and Seattle.

All I know is that I spent considerable time and expense on my avatar and if Kasper is cut I will be mad as a hornet!

 

[Harpo]

Wildcard Said

Short of taking snaps from center and playing DB, I don't know what else Kasper could've done in the Dallas game to raise his status. Nothing changed.

Maybe that's what Kasper has to do to make the team, See the quote below from his WR coach Tyke Tolbert during a Q&A segment


Q
As a new coach for the Cards, what is your take on Kevin Kasper? He seems to have very good speed with a great pair of hands to boot. He really impressed me last year over the last few games, but I haven't heard much about him since.

A
I like Kevin Kasper. He does have good speed. He does have good hands. Kevin has obviously had some NFL experience. He just needs to focus on the total picture and what we are trying to do because sometimes we move guys from one position to another position. If he focuses on the whole picture, he’ll be able to increase his versatility.

 

[Goldfield]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
We don't yet, I just think physically this group is better than last years. I think they're faster and deeper. More importantly, last year between Boston, Sanders and Jenkins, that could have been the worst Veteran 'hands' squad run out onto an NFL field in years.

I agree 100%, the guys we have are not trash, they are just unproven...


They will be incosistant because of their youth, but they will also make big plays from time to time.

With Blake at QB and these speedy young guys we are alot better than last year with Jake and the other crew.

Boston "could" of been great, but the other two?????? Sanders and Martay strike fear in what DB in the league? NONE, I wll take our new guys, thx!