Why It’s a Risk to Hire a Coach With a Losing Record

[DVontel]

Kliff’s resumé is really weird to examine without context.

 

[BritCard]

Fansided have some "insight" on what's wrong in Glendale

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[cardpa]

So does every NFL coach - so actually your point is irrelevant.

The point of this thread is KK's lack of winning in college (why hire a coach with a losing record). Who cares what he did in college now? What matters most is that he has proven he can do it at the highest level and against very good teams...now (in the NFL).

Again - it's about balance. You can't throw out all of the positives to focus on just the negatives unless you want to be happy being miserable.

Actually Kingsbury record in the NFL is 23-23-1 so at this point he's not a winning coach in the NFL either. His record against teams with winning records (teams currently with winning records in 2021) (3-11 in 2019-2020) in the NFL is 6-14. Not exactly a record that builds confidence in his ability to win at this level.

I also think the crux of this thread has turned into not his college record but his inability to win against better teams at either level.

Do you really see him and out-coaching the likes of Bruce Arians, Sean McVay, Matt LaFleur, or even Mike McCarthy or Kyle Shanahan in the NFC playoffs?

 

[JeffGollin]

We overly dissect things. When a team has terminal dummass plastered to its face, that"'s all you've got to know.

Cards play dumb football.

 

[Harry]

Good point, Harry. I wanted to check this for myself, unlike most of the people here showing how susceptible they are to buying into a narrative that's fed to them with deceptive stats.

Here are Texas Tech's results, opponents, and opponents' records while Kingsbury was coach. I've bolded every game they either defeated a team that was at least one game over .500, or lost to a team that was at least one game under .500. In six years, that only amounted to six games (in which he had a 4-2 record).

Clearly, the upshot is not "Kingsbury's teams started strong, then faded", but "Kingsbury's teams at Texas Tech almost always beat worse teams, and lost to better teams." It was a quirk of the schedule that the stronger opponents were always scheduled in the latter part of the season (or in a bowl game).

​ ​	2013​	​
W​	SMU​	5-7​
W​	SF Austin​	non-major​
W​	TCU​	4-8​
W​	TX State​	6-6​
W​	Kansas​	3-9​
W​	IA State​	3-9​
W​	WVU​	4-8​
L​	Oklahoma​	11-2​
L​	OK State​	10-3​
L​	K State​	8-5​
L​	Baylor​	11-2​
L​	UT​	8-5​
W​	ASU​	10-4​

​

​	​ 2014​	​
W​	Cent. AR​	non-major​
W​	UTEP​	7-6​
L​	Arkansas​	7-6​
L​	OK State​	7-6​
L​	K State​	9-4​
L​	WVU​	7-6​
W​	Kansas​	3-9​
L​	TCU​	12-1​
L​	UT​	6-7​
L​	Oklahoma​	8-5​
W​	IA State​	2-10​
L​	Baylor​	11-2​

​

​	​ 2015​	​
W​	Sam Houston​	non-major​
W​	UTEP​	5-7​
W​	Arkansas​	8-5​
L​	TCU​	11-2​
L​	Baylor​	10-3​
W​	IA State​	3-9​
W​	Kansas​	0-12​
L​	Oklahoma​	11-2​
L​	OK State​	10-3​
L​	WVU​	8-5​
W​	K State​	6-7​
W​	UT​	5-7​
L​	LSU​	9-3​

​

​	​ 2016​	​
W​	SF Austin​	non-major​
L​	ASU​	5-7​
W​	LA Tech​	9-5​
W​	Kansas​	2-10​
L​	K State​	9-4​
L​	WVU​	10-3​
L​	Oklahoma​	11-2​
W​	TCU​	6-7​
L​	UT​	5-7​
L​	OK State​	10-3​
L​	IA State​	3-9​
W​	Baylor​	7-6​

​

​	​ 2017​	​
W​	East WA​	non-major​
W​	ASU​	7-6​
W​	Houston​	7-5​
L​	OK State​	10-3​
W​	Kansas​	1-11​
L​	WVU​	7-6​
L​	IA State​	8-5​
L​	Oklahoma​	12-2​
L​	K State​	8-5​
W​	Baylor​	1-11​
L​	TCU​	11-3​
W​	UT​	7-6​
L​	South FL​	10-2​

​

	​ 2018​
L	Ole Miss	5-7
W	Lamar	non-major
W	Houston	8-5
W	OK State	7-6
L	WVU	8-4
W	TCU	7-6
W	Kansas	3-9
L	IA State	8-5
L	Oklahoma	12-2
L	UT	10-4
L	K State	5-7
L	Baylor	7-6

BTW, in the year preceding Kingsbury, Texas Tech started 6-1 and finished 2-4 (2012). In the year following Kingsbury, they started 3-4 and finished 1-4 (2019).

...dbs

Interesting, perhaps this is telling us he’s better when teams don’t have film on his current squad. He seems to be able to consistently lose to bad teams.

 

[DVontel]

Actually Kingsbury record in the NFL is 23-23-1 so at this point he's not a winning coach in the NFL either. His record against teams with winning records (teams currently with winning records in 2021) (3-11 in 2019-2020) in the NFL is 6-14. Not exactly a record that builds confidence in his ability to win at this level.

I also think the crux of this thread has turned into not his college record but his inability to win against better teams at either level.

Do you really see him and out-coaching the likes of Bruce Arians, Sean McVay, Matt LaFleur, or even Mike McCarthy or Kyle Shanahan in the NFC playoffs?

Kyle Shanahan lol

 

[Krangodnzr]

Kyle Shanahan lol

He outcoached him TWICE this year.

Beating the snot out of the Niners with McCoy should close that book.

 

[TheCardFan]

Has he proven in college and the pros he can finish seasons?

Nope but all I care about is his record in the NFL. He certainly needs to find a way to finish better.

He has proven he can win 7 in a row (how many other NFL coaches have done that?), improve every year, create a top 10 offense (2 years in a row), win 10 games (with two left), oh...and make the playoffs.

 

[TheCardFan]

Do you really see him and out-coaching the likes of Bruce Arians, Sean McVay, Matt LaFleur, or even Mike McCarthy or Kyle Shanahan in the NFC playoffs?

You realize he is 3-2 vs those coaches this year right? He is AJ Green turning around from being 4-1 and a different "finish" to the season IMO.

Another point to make - only Shanahan has less talent on offense IMO. BA, McVay, and McCarthy are STACKED.

 

[AZCB34]

The problem with deciding to move on Kliff, is also deciding to move on from Kyler. Every new coach wants to groom their own QBoF.

Even if the Cards lose their last 6 games of the season, I don't think they will break up this team yet. I don't think that anyone in our front office doesn't think that Kyler isn't our guy.

I get what you are saying but not sure I agree. As an example, you could hire Eric Bienamy who has worked with Mahomes and he brings in s talented QB coach to help further develop Kyler. I think that could be a successful pairing without having to bail on Kyler.

I don’t know if Bienamy would want the job, just an example.

One big problem is would a coach want to hitch his wagon to Kyler with the perception Kyler is not committed to working on his craft

 

[TheCardFan]

One big problem is would a coach want to hitch his wagon to Kyler with the perception Kyler is not committed to working on his craft

Where does this perception come from? Does everyone on here remember rookie year Kyler?

Dude has improved every year. 5 wins, 8 wins, 10 wins (with 2 more to go), and playoffs.

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[Stout]

So does every NFL coach - so actually your point is irrelevant.

The point of this thread is KK's lack of winning in college (why hire a coach with a losing record). Who cares what he did in college now? What matters most is that he has proven he can do it at the highest level and against very good teams...now (in the NFL).

Again - it's about balance. You can't throw out all of the positives to focus on just the negatives unless you want to be happy being miserable.

If my point is irrelevant, so is yours--every NFL coach can beat good teams, too. Look at the Lions beating us!

Who cares what he did in college? What about high school? Mm, perhaps we can apply the same logic to another thread about our QB?

It IS about balance. You can't thro out all of the negatives to just focus on the positives unless you want to bury your head in the sand.

 

[BritCard]

Where does this perception come from? Does everyone on here remember rookie year Kyler?

Dude has improved every year. 5 wins, 8 wins, 10 wins (with 2 more to go), and playoffs.

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These are the result of huge roster improvements. Yes Kyler has got better but wins aren't the measuring stick.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The easiest way to say it and what actually matters the most:

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Also this: not many weeks ago we were the #1 seed and controlled our destiny, now we likely don’t even have home field advantage.

 

[BritCard]

I think the talk of replacing Kliff ignores the QB aspect. I'm really not sure Kyler succeeds with many other coaches. Certainly the coaching pool is shallow.

Kyler is basically playing a variation of the same system he's played his entire life. The idea that someone would come in with a more traditional NFL scheme and Kyler wouldn't take years to adapt seems like wishful thinking.

It took him 2 years to adapt to the NFL nuances of a scheme he was already very familiar with.

In my opinion Kliff and Kyler are joined at the hip.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Cards arent those teams Cheesy. Try to pay attention. I said we dont have the depth like those teams do that's the reason we cant compete when we start losing our key players. Besides, we had the chance to beat GB if Green turned around in the endzone. We could have beat the Colts as ****** as we were playing if Prater wasnt struggling with a new holder. I also said IF we get players back for the playoffs we could make some noise. Sorry if my optimism goes against the grain on this board I just dont give up and lay down.

I love these bs comments. Recognizing the truth isn’t laying down. It’s called analyzing facts and being a realist. Every single realist on this board is still rooting for the cards to win.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So does every NFL coach - so actually your point is irrelevant.

The point of this thread is KK's lack of winning in college (why hire a coach with a losing record). Who cares what he did in college now? What matters most is that he has proven he can do it at the highest level and against very good teams...now (in the NFL).

Again - it's about balance. You can't throw out all of the positives to focus on just the negatives unless you want to be happy being miserable.

I think you still don’t understand the simple concept of patterns and trends and how a fixed inability to elevate your team during the second half of seasons when things like playoff pushes, division titles, and actually playoffs games occurs is a problem. Every year. Literally every year. College and pro. Every year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Cards arent those teams Cheesy. Try to pay attention. I said we dont have the depth like those teams do that's the reason we cant compete when we start losing our key players. Besides, we had the chance to beat GB if Green turned around in the endzone. We could have beat the Colts as ****** as we were playing if Prater wasnt struggling with a new holder. I also said IF we get players back for the playoffs we could make some noise. Sorry if my optimism goes against the grain on this board I just dont give up and lay down.

No. Instead you just bend over and say thank you sir, may I have another! (And spare me whatever righteous indignation that’s probably coming from this comment after the “try and follow along” crack, followed up by accusing me and others for quitting on the team. Just because you’re overly optimistic doesn’t mean you get a free pass to insult those who disagree with you.)

And again, I just don’t know why you believe our depth will magically get better next year considering there is no evidence to support that. And that’s because teams that have depth get it through the draft. And guess what? WE CAN’T DRAFT. And that isn’t going to change when the guy who can’t draft stays in charge of it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Fansided have some "insight" on what's wrong in Glendale

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“There isn’t any structure or discipline there.”

Scathing indictment of the team and reasonable to believe it due to the consistent pattern of backwards slides across all seasons of kingsbury tenures everywhere.

 

[TheCardFan]

Also this: not many weeks ago we were the #1 seed and controlled our destiny, now we likely don’t even have home field advantage.

How did we get to be the #1 seed? How many times has that happened as a franchise?

We all agree that the last 3 games have been crap - I would throw in the Carolina game as well. Total disappointment.

I choose to look at the entirety of the season and compare it to where we have been. It gives me optimism to then think about the future as Cardinal fan. Weird feeling.

 

[TheCardFan]

These are the result of huge roster improvements. Yes Kyler has got better but wins aren't the measuring stick.

Huge roster improvements for us. How would you rank the offensive talent of the teams currently with 10 wins?

 

[TheCardFan]

I think the talk of replacing Kliff ignores the QB aspect. I'm really not sure Kyler succeeds with many other coaches. Certainly the coaching pool is shallow.

Kyler is basically playing a variation of the same system he's played his entire life. The idea that someone would come in with a more traditional NFL scheme and Kyler wouldn't take years to adapt seems like wishful thinking.

It took him 2 years to adapt to the NFL nuances of a scheme he was already very familiar with.

In my opinion Kliff and Kyler are joined at the hip.

Truth.

How many times have we seen that before. New coach, new system, and the QB struggles. This is the perfect system for Kyler.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You realize he is 3-2 vs those coaches this year right? He is AJ Green turning around from being 4-1 and a different "finish" to the season IMO.

Another point to make - only Shanahan has less talent on offense IMO. BA, McVay, and McCarthy are STACKED.

We have more skill player talent than the Rams. With hop out Kupp is definitely the best receiver but OBJ isn’t materially better than Kirk anymore. The rest of the receivers are a wash. We have the better tight end and our running backs are better.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How did we get to be the #1 seed? How many times has that happened as a franchise?

.

Lol at this. It doesn’t matter that we held it midseason if we didn’t end up with it. Meaningless.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How did we get to be the #1 seed? How many times has that happened as a franchise?

We all agree that the last 3 games have been crap - I would throw in the Carolina game as well. Total disappointment.

I choose to look at the entirety of the season and compare it to where we have been. It gives me optimism to then think about the future as Cardinal fan. Weird feeling.

But you refuse to look at the entirety of kliffs career and acknowledge the absolutely devastating reality that kliffs team fold in every season. Every one. No exceptions.