Why the Cardinals continue to fail:

[Catfish]

There are many reasons why the Cardinals fail as an organization to compete on a level which will allow them to get into the playoff picture. In this thread, I will only deal with two of them, but both are due to indecisevness and lack of an overall vision.

1. It is clear to me that Whiz has no conception of having a plan to go forward, because it required him to speak with his players, (after the end of the season), to determine that he needed to change his Defensive Co-ordinator. How is it that 99 of every 100 fans knew that this was a necessary change, but Whiz had to find out from his players? Could he not make this decision by seeing that statistically, we finished 29th or BELOW in every defensive statistic kept? Did he not see that many of his defensive players quit on him during several games this year? No one can possibly be that blind, and I know for certain, that if I were the HC of this team, I would have a pretty good idea what changes I would be making as soon as the last quarter ended at the latest. I would not have needed to question players. Their actions would have already told me what I needed to know.

2. Being able to bring in (needs) players by trade and by free agency is imperative for any club from time to time. It is imperative for the Birds to do so this year, because we have allowed too much talent to escape, that we already had in the past. Much of this was because of failure to be decisive about who we needed to keep, then extending them early, so that we not only kept the best of them, but that we sent a message to free agents from other teams that WE valued our best players, and made it easy for them to stay where they were comfortable. This would make it clear that if other players came here and excelled, that they would receive this treatment too. This would also promote a path of comfort for prospective incoming players that they would be valued here. Unfortunately our organization sends exactly the opposite message to players from other teams who might have been willing to come here to play. Most of them don't want to be caught up in our losing ways, or to play for a staff that can't identify needs without help from its own players.

Just four short years ago, we seemed to know exactly where we were headed, and how we were to get there, but that vision has faded quickly as we proceeded to give our love to aging players who were loyal to our coaching staff's former employer, and ignored our own. Now we are back to that place of great need in talent, and have squandered everything that would help us to entice that talent to come here as opposed to going elsewhere. Until we fix at least these two things, we have little hope of returning to a divisional title, as we have been already passed by every other team in the division.

 

[joeshmo]

1. It is clear to me that Whiz has no conception of having a plan to go forward, because it required him to speak with his players, (after the end of the season), to determine that he needed to change his Defensive Co-ordinator. How is it that 99 of every 100 fans knew that this was a necessary change, but Whiz had to find out from his players? Could he not make this decision by seeing that statistically, we finished 29th or BELOW in every defensive statistic kept? Did he not see that many of his defensive players quit on him during several games this year? No one can possibly be that blind, and I know for certain, that if I were the HC of this team, I would have a pretty good idea what changes I would be making as soon as the last quarter ended at the latest. I would not have needed to question players. Their actions would have already told me what I needed to know.

First of all end of season one on one meetings are SOP in the NFL. Second of all how do you know Coach did not know what he was going to do prior to even talking to the players? Coach went through disguise of due process and said all the right PC sayings that head coaches say out of respect for the guy getting fired. You have zero clue as to what, when, or how this decision was made and to say other wise is nothing but rhetoric.

 

[Reddog]

I believe Whiz knew Davis had to go and hisc omments about speaking to the players was posturing.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think that the one thing that Coach has shown is his refusal to make snap decisions when it comes to personnel and schemes. He prefers to evaluate an entire resume (or situation) and then come to conclusion which frustrates me as a fan at times, but is something that a head coach should do.

Fans forget the human element in sports, especially how things can effect players psyches. We tend to "Maddenize" football and the players in it, but if we would apply our ideas for rapid change to the corporate world, they would not hold up.

People very rarely adapt well to change. Change in management, company philosophies, and goals all are very difficult for employees to manage which can lead to high levels of turnover. Snap decisions regarding change can be even more detrimental to the level of trust that an employee has in his company and can lead them to looking for greener pastures. This applies directly to football and it's players with the caveat that the supply of quality performers in sports is far less than it is in the business world.

 

[Paso Fino]

It was instructive to hear during the Packer-Eagles game today the great work that the Packer's front office has done in bringing in quality undrafted FAs when they had some many players on IR. To consistently win in the NFL you have to have strong people in the front office who can evaluate and sign high quality players and a coaching staff which can get the most out of the players on the active roster. Do we have that?

 

[Chopper0080]

It was instructive to hear during the Packer-Eagles game today the great work that the Packer's front office has done in bringing in quality undrafted FAs when they had some many players on IR. To consistently win in the NFL you have to have strong people in the front office who can evaluate and sign high quality players and a coaching staff which can get the most out of the players on the active roster. Do we have that?

Not at the GM position.

 

[bg7brd]

First of all end of season one on one meetings are SOP in the NFL. Second of all how do you know Coach did not know what he was going to do prior to even talking to the players? Coach went through disguise of due process and said all the right PC sayings that head coaches say out of respect for the guy getting fired. You have zero clue as to what, when, or how this decision was made and to say other wise is nothing but rhetoric.

Exactly this!

 

[PACardsFan]

First of all end of season one on one meetings are SOP in the NFL. Second of all how do you know Coach did not know what he was going to do prior to even talking to the players? Coach went through disguise of due process and said all the right PC sayings that head coaches say out of respect for the guy getting fired. You have zero clue as to what, when, or how this decision was made and to say other wise is nothing but rhetoric.

Yes, Yes & Yes!!

 

[conraddobler]

Lot of Whiz apologists in here.

BD was a crap DC in Frisco, we hired him, it's Whiz's fault plain and simple.

I guess next you're going to say that BD was an elaborate ruse / place holder for Whiz's real next move of genius?

 

[Catfish]

First of all end of season one on one meetings are SOP in the NFL. Second of all how do you know Coach did not know what he was going to do prior to even talking to the players? Coach went through disguise of due process and said all the right PC sayings that head coaches say out of respect for the guy getting fired. You have zero clue as to what, when, or how this decision was made and to say other wise is nothing but rhetoric.

You can call it rhetoric if you wish, but this is the exact pattern that this organization has followed forever. Where has it led in the long run. Both Lutui and Breaston should have been locked up during the season to show that we intend to treat our valued players with respect. Instead, we play the waiting game, which leads others to believe that we can't recognize talent when we have it. Until that changes, neither will our fortunes.

 

[football karma]

I don't get the use of "continue" in the thread title

Wasn't the team in the playoffs the last two years?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Lot of Whiz apologists in here.

BD was a crap DC in Frisco, we hired him, it's Whiz's fault plain and simple.

How could he be a "crap DC in Frisco" when he didn't call the defense? Mike Nolan called the defense there. Sure his track record here was spotty, but he was clearly a scapegoat in SF.

I guess next you're going to say that BD was an elaborate ruse / place holder for Whiz's real next move of genius?

LOL ridiculous none of the sane "Whiz apologists" have claimed anything like this.

Bill Davis had no track record coming in as a DC. But he's had a long track record of being a good linebackers.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The Cardinals "continue" to fail because of a crap front office that:

1) Isn't proactive at resigning our young, talented players and end up letting them walk.

2) Too conservative on draft day. When was the last time you saw a draft day deal and said "Wow" we really made a great trade there! (Getting rid of Bryant McFadden wasn't a bad trade in retrospect, but looked terrible at the time).

3) Cheap. Proven again this offseason when we had the lowest payroll in the league. Thirty million dollars! Easily could have (over)paid for Dansby and at least one more very good free agent.

 

[azsportsfan01]

Lot of Whiz apologists in here.

BD was a crap DC in Frisco, we hired him, it's Whiz's fault plain and simple.

I guess next you're going to say that BD was an elaborate ruse / place holder for Whiz's real next move of genius?

Using that thinking then the Pats were stupid to hire Bill Belichick since he was a crap coach with the Browns.

You can call it rhetoric if you wish, but this is the exact pattern that this organization has followed forever. Where has it led in the long run. Both Lutui and Breaston should have been locked up during the season to show that we intend to treat our valued players with respect. Instead, we play the waiting game, which leads others to believe that we can't recognize talent when we have it. Until that changes, neither will our fortunes.

Keeping on the Pats theme they didn't offer an extension to Mankins. The Chargers didn't give extensions to a few of their players. Let's not pretend like this is a problem only with the Cards.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Just four short years ago, we seemed to know exactly where we were headed, and how we were to get there, but that vision has faded quickly as we proceeded to give our love to aging players who were loyal to our coaching staff's former employer, and ignored our own.

LOL this paragraph is absurd! Just four years ago, we hadn't been in the playoffs in years and we were REELING after Denny Green's failure to put a winning team on the field.

The problem HASN'T been that we've brought in "aging players who were loyal". Those guys were ok up until this year. The problem has been the front offices inability to bring in young back ups behind those aging veterans to develop.

Now we are back to that place of great need in talent, and have squandered everything that would help us to entice that talent to come here as opposed to going elsewhere. Until we fix at least these two things, we have little hope of returning to a divisional title, as we have been already passed by every other team in the division.

The only thing that "entices" talent is money. IF you pay people more they will come to you. And unlike 28 other teams, we've been to a Super Bowl recently.

The ball is in the front office's court.

 

[Buckybird]

Wasn't the team in the playoffs the last two years?

No

Coming off a putrid 5-11 season in which it should have won 2 games at best...in case you forgot.

 

[conraddobler]

LOL ridiculous none of the sane "Whiz apologists" have claimed anything like this.

.

You need to go back to sarcasm school.

Whiff.

 

[Catfish]

I don't get the use of "continue" in the thread title

Wasn't the team in the playoffs the last two years?

To call the 2010 off-season, and regular season anything but failure would be ridiculous. Due to the fact the we are engaged in talks with Fitz on renewal, (who is far from even being close to serving his contract), and we have not extended, (or even identified Breaston and Lutui) as players we should keep, shows that we have no comprehensive plan. You can't convince me that they wouldn't be signed if Whiz had asked for as much.

So far as his feeling about firing his DC, while he made it clear that changes would be coming, he also made it clear that he would be reluctant to make coaching changes. His thoughts of change were more slanted towards players.

This is a coach who in one fell swoop, named Scud as our starting QB, (and believed he could coach him up), and then fired the best QB on the roster, all within a few days of getting his own contract extension, so don't preach to me about him not being prone to snap judgements. He literally blew up our franchise and our season. That was before the regular season started, and he still doesn't have a plan with his director of football operations, and his GM on how to go forward. I can't hardly imagine a path leading more toward certain failure, than to not know at this point in time what is needed to right the ship. Meanwhile other teams are filling coaching needs while we are interviewing. Who here really believes that while we are interviewing, and waiting for interviews, that we won't be losing those we have already interviewed to other teams who aren't so slow to act.

Meanwhile, his indecision about who to keep as players, is a red flag for any prospective Free Agent or trade prospect who might be prone to coming here.

 

[D-Dogg]

I don't get the use of "continue" in the thread title

Wasn't the team in the playoffs the last two years?

And the Super Bowl. Who knew?

 

[Redrage]

To call the 2010 off-season, and regular season anything but failure would be ridiculous.

A bit of a strawman considering no one has deemed 2010 a success. However, it does take more than one season to determine if the coaching staff is mired in futility or simply experiencing a momemtary slump.

8-8, 9-7, 10-6, 5-11. Thats a real pattern of failure. The so-called Whiz Worshipers aren't delusional. Another season like this one and scalpes will be had, but lets not go overboard and eviscerate Whiz at this stage, he is the winningest coach we've had here.

 

[chickenhead]

The whole pro/anti Whiz theme is getting pretty tired. I like the simple presentation of the record above:

8-8, 9-7, 10-6, 5-11

It presents only one question: is the last entry an aberration, or the beginning of a new pattern? I don't see any way that we don't need this upcoming season to substantiate the kinds of claims (i.e. Whiz is toast) that are being made now. Btw, if the next entry is 3-13, I'm not going to argue. But I want to see it first.

 

[Catfish]

Go ahead and look only at the record. I choose to look at the bleeding away of our free agents ever since he has been here. Why-----because they were not HIS guys? The way he dealt with Anquan Boldin was atroscious. This guy was the heart and soul of this team, and was at least as important as Fitz, (far surpassed Fitz in my estimation). He set the tone and the example for others to follow without saying a word. He simply ran over, through, around anyone he could, EVERY time he had the ball in his hands, in order to get to the goal line. He let his play do the talking for him. Show me just one instance where Whiz spoke highly of him, or even acknowleged that he was important to our organization.

Im not talking Dansby and Rolle here, I'm talking Q. And Whiz did absolutely NOTHING that encouraged our FO to work to keep him. In fact, Whiz handled Q almost on an antagonistic basis. Like he was a thorn in his foot that he needed to get rid of. Of course, Whiz benched him because he began dropping some balls after he got his entire face busted up. Did he drop more than Fitz did this year? I doubt it. Yet Fitz is being handled like a King, and Q was sent packing with the dirty laundry. Its a terrible shame that he is viewed better by other organizations than he was by our own. But then, after all, we had Whiz, the great talent evaluator, who brought us DA over Matt Leinart, and who had already determined that Doucette would be the perfect (tough) replacement for Boldin. (I won't even bother with the sarcasm bit here), oops.

I guess that we just have to trust in Whiz though. After all, he knew it was okay to let Gandy and Wells walk away. They were after all, only our best pass blockers, who had no possibility of being incorporated into the run-blocking line that we would need this year. With Beanie and Timmy lighting up the league on the ground this year, they were not even needed. Oops, there goes that sarcasm thing again.

I guess that I shouldn't even be bringing any of this up though, because to do so might just begin to show a little history of failure on Whiz's part, and Lord knows, I don't want to do that and take a chance on offending any REAL Cardinals fans.