Why The Cardinals Need To Trade Down If Possible

[Mitch]

Two reasons: DE/DT DeMarrio Pressley and OLB Cliff Avril. Both are perfect fits for the Cardinals' defense and both need to be taken in round two. Pressley's most natural position in the NFL is at 3-4 DE, where he can utilize his impressive strength and quickness. Avril may be the most natural string side 3-4 OLB in this draft.

What a coup it would be if the Cardinals were able to trade down...still be able to take CB Antoine Cason and then Pressley and Avril.

They could then focus the rest of the draft on adding talent to the offense. The draft might look something like this:

1. Antoine Cason, CB, Arizona.
2A. DeMarrio Pressley, DE/DT, North Carolina St.
2B. Cliff Avril, LB, Purdue
3. Mike McGlynn, G/T, Pittsburgh
4. Duane Brown, T, Virginia Tech
5. Thomas Brown, RB, Georgia
6. D.J. Hall, WR, Alabama
7. J Leman, ILB, Illinois

 

[Garthshort]

Thomas Brown

Mitch, I know he's on the small side, but I was really disappointed with his 40 time, someting like 4.58. Am I missing something?

 

[Mitch]

Mitch, I know he's on the small side, but I was really disappointed with his 40 time, someting like 4.58. Am I missing something?

Brown will not be a feature back in the NFL at 5-9, 199, but he will be Darren Sproles-type change of pace back, who can bring instant speed to the running and passing games. He runs in 4.4 range...but looks faster on tape. Remember the screen pass to Sproles that he ran for 68 yards and a TD versus the Pats in the playoffs? This is the kind of vaue Thomas Brown brings. He's got quick acceleration and is hard to tackle in the open field due to his speed and elusiveness. The key for the Cardinals is adding some speed options to the offense.

Is there a late round RB you have your eye on, Garth?

While taking a RB early will be tempting for the Cards, I think they will keep building the lines first...and they really need a CB in the first three picks, which is why this scenario would be to the Cards' liking. To get a speed RB like Thomas Brown in the 5th round is gravy.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Mitch, who do you imagine is going to give up a 2nd round pick to move up in the 1st? That doesn't make any sense accodring to the trade chart.

I like the idea, and I like Pressley. But I'd rather pick up a second cornerback with the 3rd round pick we'd pick up in a trade. That's because that while Avril is an intriguing prospect, with Berry, LaBoy, Okeafor, and Haggans, he'd be in a fight to make the roster, not to mention see the field.

I also think that McGlynn and Brown are really similar prospects. I think that one Reggie Wells clone wouldn't be a bad thing, but I don't really want to double-down on them.

 

[DaisyCutter]

All right, I was trying to put together an alternative scenario. Say that Washington wants to get a big, physical WR to take some pressure off Santana Moss and move Antwan Randle El back to the slot, where he's most effective.

That would mean that the Redskins want to move ahead of the Eagles and Bucs to get they guy they want: Michigan State WR Devin Thomas. Washington has the 21st overall pick in the draft, but they feel confident about being able to move up because they have 8 other draft choices.

Moving from 21 (800 pts) to 16 (1000 pts) is a 200 point difference. According to the trade value chart, the 78th overall pick in the draft is worth 200 points. Washington owns the 84th overall pick (170 pts) and the 154th overall pick (30.8 pts) to get him. That gives the Cards an extra 3rd and 5th.

Following from that, the Cards draft could look like this:

1 (21) - Jonathan Stewart, RB, Oregon
2 (50) - Antoine Cason, CB, Arizona
3A (81) - Oniel Cousins, OT, UTEP
3B (84) - DeMario Pressley, DT/DE, NC State
4 (116) - Thomas DeCoud, S, Cal
5A (149) - Dexter Jackson, WR, Appalacian St
5B (154) - Dwight Lowry, CB, San Diego St
6 (185) - Jeremy Lehman, LB, Illinois
7 (225) - Kurt Hout, DT, Ferris St

Personally, I think I'd be really happy with this draft, even though I want to add to the defense earlier. We infuse talent into the secondary and DL, add a developmental prospect to the OL, and get a WR who might develop.

 

[ajcardfan]

Well, if we can trade down in the first and get a second, that'd be a heck of a trade for us. I'd use one of those picks on a RB though.

 

[ReddBird]

If we're not excited about the #16 pick (and nobody seems THAT excited), is there anyone that will desperately want to trade up with us?

 

[Mitch]

All right, I was trying to put together an alternative scenario. Say that Washington wants to get a big, physical WR to take some pressure off Santana Moss and move Antwan Randle El back to the slot, where he's most effective.

That would mean that the Redskins want to move ahead of the Eagles and Bucs to get they guy they want: Michigan State WR Devin Thomas. Washington has the 21st overall pick in the draft, but they feel confident about being able to move up because they have 8 other draft choices.

Moving from 21 (800 pts) to 16 (1000 pts) is a 200 point difference. According to the trade value chart, the 78th overall pick in the draft is worth 200 points. Washington owns the 84th overall pick (170 pts) and the 154th overall pick (30.8 pts) to get him. That gives the Cards an extra 3rd and 5th.

Following from that, the Cards draft could look like this:

1 (21) - Jonathan Stewart, RB, Oregon
2 (50) - Antoine Cason, CB, Arizona
3A (81) - Oniel Cousins, OT, UTEP
3B (84) - DeMario Pressley, DT/DE, NC State
4 (116) - Thomas DeCoud, S, Cal
5A (149) - Dexter Jackson, WR, Appalacian St
5B (154) - Dwight Lowry, CB, San Diego St
6 (185) - Jeremy Lehman, LB, Illinois
7 (225) - Kurt Hout, DT, Ferris St

Personally, I think I'd be really happy with this draft, even though I want to add to the defense earlier. We infuse talent into the secondary and DL, add a developmental prospect to the OL, and get a WR who might develop.

I think we'd all be doing cartwheels if this is the way the draft goes for the Cardinals. The problem, as I see it, is...Cason won't make it to #50 (he'll go late 1st or early 2nd), nor will Pressley make it to #84 (he'll be taken somewhere in Round 2).

The Patriots are having Cason and Jason Jones in for visits this week. They have the #7, #62, #69 (early 3rd) and #94 picks in the first three rounds. They can't be thinking they could get Cason at their picks in the 60s (do they think highly enough of him to take him at #7? Are they thinking of trading down from #7?...they are averse to paying top ten draft salaries, and seeing as they had to forfeit the #31 pick, maybe they do want to trade down if they can)...maybe they would consider trading up for him if he made it into the 2nd round. As for Jones, picking him in the 60s is realistic.

All your other picks are good and seem quite possible. Good thinking.

 

[Mitch]

If we're not excited about the #16 pick (and nobody seems THAT excited), is there anyone that will desperately want to trade up with us?

The wild card here may be QB Brian Brohm. If the Falcons, for example, do not take Matt Ryan at #3 in favor of taking Darren McFadden or one of the Longs, or Glenn Dorsey...they have three 2nd round picks (#'s 34, 37 and 48) to play with. If they think Brohm's their guy (which several pundits have predicted), they may be willing to trade their #34, 37, and 48 picks to the Cardinals for the #16 and 50. In that scenario, if Cason falls into the early 2nd, as some think, the Cards could wind up with Cason, Pressley and Avril, and they would not have to pay a first round salary.

 

[CardinalChris]

I just don't like trading out of 16. The draft is deep at corner and RB, so one of the top ones will be there at 16. Why trade down and out of that. Cason will be late first, early second. I doubt he lasts until our pick in the second.

 

[Bobcat]

I think that it is time for the Cardinals to start drafting the best Athlete available at their draft pick slot. We have many star players now we need some better Athletes on our roster. Don't draft for need; draft for our teams future and then trade for needs. Then you know better what you are getting out of both scenario's...!!!

BOBCAT

 

[DaisyCutter]

I think we'd all be doing cartwheels if this is the way the draft goes for the Cardinals. The problem, as I see it, is...Cason won't make it to #50 (he'll go late 1st or early 2nd), nor will Pressley make it to #84 (he'll be taken somewhere in Round 2).

The Patriots are having Cason and Jason Jones in for visits this week. They have the #7, #62, #69 (early 3rd) and #94 picks in the first three rounds. They can't be thinking they could get Cason at their picks in the 60s (do they think highly enough of him to take him at #7? Are they thinking of trading down from #7?...they are averse to paying top ten draft salaries, and seeing as they had to forfeit the #31 pick, maybe they do want to trade down if they can)...maybe they would consider trading up for him if he made it into the 2nd round. As for Jones, picking him in the 60s is realistic.

All your other picks are good and seem quite possible. Good thinking.

I don't think that's the case. And I'll tell you why: Right now, TheHuddleReport ranks Cason as the #50 prospect on their value board. ESPN.com/Scouts Inc also has him as the 50th prospect in the draft. Both have him as somewhere around the 7th best overall CB prospect.

If the Cards really are nervous about missing out on Cason, they could use that 5th round pick to move up into the Top 10 or so picks in the second round and get him.

ESPN.com has Pressley as the 118th best prospect right now, and the 11th best DT overall. THR has him rated slightly higher, but not in the middle of the 2nd round.

I'm certain that the Pats are desperate to trade out of the 7th overall pick. They'll maybe do it. But any team (including the Cards) would be crazy to take Cason in the top 25 picks, unless somehow 5 corners come off the board in the first 25 choices.

I'm agnostic on Jason Jones. I think we have 4 OLBs right now, and Jones wouldn't be able to beat out any of them. He can go whenever, because I don't think he's a target.

 

[Garthshort]

Proposals

A lot of great suggestions. But I don't see many that say we should take an OT at #16. And while I like our starting OL and the depth at center and guard, we don't have a backup OT, that's why I think we'll take an OT in the first. The drop off after the top five OT's is supposed to be severe, and IF we get a good OT, we'll be set for the forseeable future. And we need a CB as well, but that position is supposed to be deeper, and hopefully a good one will be available in rounds 2-4. Same with RB. As for a DE, I like Laws and Presley, but most say they'll go in round two. Urban's blog says that the team likes the WR from Coastal Carolina, and the need isn't as great, but he's targeted as a 3rd-4th round selection. With so many needs, I can't see us taking an OLB, except maybe in the 7th round, if someone who we like has fallen through the cracks. Mitch and, I believe DaisyCutter, have pushed Thomas Brown of Georgia as a RB that should be available in the 4th-5th round. And if we are left w/out a RB at that point, he seems pretty good. One thing in recent years, since Steve Keim has been on board, our scouting department has been pretty good. IMO, the scouts had AP rated ahead of LB, last year, but the team just went for need over BPA. I hope that changes this year. Less than three weeks to go.

 

[ItsInTheCards]

I'm agnostic on Jason Jones. I think we have 4 OLBs right now, and Jones wouldn't be able to beat out any of them. He can go whenever, because I don't think he's a target.

when your 3 OLBs are 31, 32, and 33 with two of the three coming off IR, and 2 only on 1 year deals with the third potentially cut in 09, OLB is definitely a priority for the future

 

[overseascardfan]

Two reasons: DE/DT DeMarrio Pressley and OLB Cliff Avril. Both are perfect fits for the Cardinals' defense and both need to be taken in round two. Pressley's most natural position in the NFL is at 3-4 DE, where he can utilize his impressive strength and quickness. Avril may be the most natural string side 3-4 OLB in this draft.

What a coup it would be if the Cardinals were able to trade down...still be able to take CB Antoine Cason and then Pressley and Avril.

They could then focus the rest of the draft on adding talent to the offense. The draft might look something like this:

1. Antoine Cason, CB, Arizona.
2A. DeMarrio Pressley, DE/DT, North Carolina St.
2B. Cliff Avril, LB, Purdue
3. Mike McGlynn, G/T, Pittsburgh
4. Duane Brown, T, Virginia Tech
5. Thomas Brown, RB, Georgia
6. D.J. Hall, WR, Alabama
7. J Leman, ILB, Illinois

I like this draft but my 2A-B would be:

2A - DE Lawrence Jackson
2B - RB Ray Rice

 

[Garthshort]

Olb

ItsInTheCards, the Cards indeed need an OLB, but not this year. They just have too many more pressing needs to pick one, IMO. However, if they are truly going BPA, who knows.

 

[DaisyCutter]

when your 3 OLBs are 31, 32, and 33 with two of the three coming off IR, and 2 only on 1 year deals with the third potentially cut in 09, OLB is definitely a priority for the future

Absolutely it's a priority for the future. That's why I hope we invest a second-day pick at the position. But we have more pressing priorities (DE, CB, even RB) that we should be using our first-day picks on.

 

[joeshmo]

Absolutely it's a priority for the future. That's why I hope we invest a second-day pick at the position. But we have more pressing priorities (DE, CB, even RB) that we should be using our first-day picks on.

Exactly. Do you make positions that you need in 2008 a priority or do you make possible 2009 needs a priority? I would even put OL higher up on the priority list not because we need it this year but because it takes OL some time to acclimate to the NFL. LB's can and do come in right away and excel from the get go far more often then OL players do.

CB
DE/DT (Overall DL depth)
RB (Coaches and GM keep saying it is, so who are we to argue)
OL (Overall depth and training for the future, Vallejo is currently our top OT backup, that should all that needs to be said)
Another CB

Then maybe LB in the draft and I am inclined to think the coaches feel the same way considering LB has been their main priority in free agency, pretty much the only priority before the draft. Laboy, Haggans, and they are still trying to sign that Matt Stewart guy. Tells me they want to concentrate on many more positions in the draft besides LB, or they dont like any of the prospects this year, or Pendy's scheme is so complex it is hard for rookies to grasp and they would rather keep filling their LB spots with veterans every year just like the Patriots philosophy on LB's, or some sort of combo of all 3.

 

[joeshmo]

The drop off after the top five OT's is supposed to be severe,

I dont think it is severe at all. During the combine on NFL network a scout was quoted as saying "over my last 20 years in NFL football this is not the most top heavy OL talented board but it is overall the deepest one over the last 20 years."

 

[Garthshort]

Ot

Joe I've heard/read differently. Who knows. If the team puts off taking an OT until the later rounds, they, also, probably think it's a deep class. Since we have so many needs I hope that scout is correct.

 

[Skkorpion]

I like this draft but my 2A-B would be:

2A - DE Lawrence Jackson
2B - RB Ray Rice

Didn't Ray Rice have a gazillion carries in four years? That's a red flag for me. I'm not rejecting your choice, having seen him only a few times.

I thought Ray Rice had over 900 carries in college already. Am I wrong? (Correction, I just checked. 910 carries in 3 years. Wow)

I just remember watching a few pro RBs get callously overused and discarded by their coaches.

Earl Campell by Bum Phillips.
Larry Brown by George Allen.
Recently, maybe Larry Johnson at Kansas City

 

[WildBB]

Didn't Ray Rice have a gazillion carries in four years? That's a red flag for me. I'm not rejecting your choice, having seen him only a few times.

I thought Ray Rice had over 900 carries in college already. Am I wrong? (Correction, I just checked. 910 carries in 3 years. Wow)

I just remember watching a few pro RBs get callously overused and discarded by their coaches.

Earl Campell by Bum Phillips.
Larry Brown by George Allen.
Recently, maybe Larry Johnson at Kansas City

Campbell was the best RB I ever saw coming into the pro's. Smith, Sanders and Peyton were great. He was incredible.
He took an severe pounding and dished it out, game in and game out. And he faced possibly the best defense of of any team ever, twice a year in the Steel Curtain. Plus the playoffs. Earl was the man. Tyler Rose.

 

[Duckjake]

Do the Cardinals really have a pressing need at any position?

Having 22 returning starters on the roster really makes this draft more interesting as the team can go in just about any direction with their selections.

I just hope they get some guys that can help the defense stop opposing offenses on third and long.

 

[Garthshort]

Ray Rice

Skorp, in reference to Rice's number of carries, I think you make a good point. He's from a city near me, and in HS, he also got a lot of carries, and he's not a big guy. Maybe teams figure, that in today's NFL, where the trend is to two running backs, he'll last. He is good, though.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Do the Cardinals really have a pressing need at any position?

Having 22 returning starters on the roster really makes this draft more interesting as the team can go in just about any direction with their selections.

I just hope they get some guys that can help the defense stop opposing offenses on third and long.

With no one after Dockett and Antonio Smith at DE, and a high-ankle sprain away from Ralph Brown starting at cornerback, I would say that those are the two most pressing needs.

But you're right that this year is the first in recent memory where there's no a gaping hole on the roster that the Cards have to fill if they even want to pretend like they can compete.