Why Timmy starts??

[TheHopToad]

I like Hightower. I think he gets stronger as games go on and has a great knack for the endzone. But to get the ball rolling at the beginning of games this year, I'd feel A LOT more comfortable with a guy toting the rock who not only pushes the pile on every down, but also has the chance to take it the distance on every play.

Yeah, we can't get off to the kind of starts like the playoff game at New Orleans last year. Agree it would be better to have a guy in there who could break loose and take it to the house...

 

[TJ]

The matter of who starts is almost irrelevant. All it really means is that Timmy is on the field for the first offensive play. We know that the carries will be split 50/50 to start and will probably favor Beanie towards the middle of the season. i like that we have two more than capable backs on this team to challenge each other, bring a different element to the offense and spell the other to mitigate the chance for injuries and physical exhaustion towards the end of games/season.

These days, it is a two-back league and we are fortunate to have two backs who are more than capable of taking the man's share of the carries. It's not out of the realm of possibility that this team is a top 10 running team in the NFL.

 

[Stout]

Fair point but Wiz doesn't strike me as stubborn.

Tim hasn't done anything to lose the job. This year Beanie takes it from him.

I gotta tell you, I really think it's naive to think "it doesn't matter who starts". This ain't last year's team who could explode for points in a hurry. Getting off to fast starts is going to be beyond crucial for a young relatively green QB and a defense that has more holes than swiss cheese in the LB and CB slots.

Defenses can stack the box on us at the beginning of games and if all Hightower's getting us is 1 or 2 yards like he seemingly did at the beginning of games last season, then Matt's facing 2nd and 3rd and longs and that means we could see a lot of 3 and Outs to start games which is never a good thing.

I like Hightower. I think he gets stronger as games go on and has a great knack for the endzone. But to get the ball rolling at the beginning of games this year, I'd feel A LOT more comfortable with a guy toting the rock who not only pushes the pile on every down, but also has the chance to take it the distance on every play.

Good call all around, Cheese, and I strongly disagree with you, AF. Whiz has a huge stubborn streak sometimes, as has been outlined, and his whole 'earn your way' schtick with Beanie is frickin' OLD. Beanie OWNED the rock down the stretch last season, and was clearly the better back. He won the job, and now we're getting the same old song-and-dance. Why? Is it purely motivational? I hope so. I hope so because it DOES matter who starts.

Why does it matter? Well, Timmy's usually our 3rd down back. If Timmy starts out the drive with a run, and we don't get a 1st, the likelihood is that we pass. If we still don't get the 1st, then Timmy will be in on 3rd down. If it's a 3-and-out, well then, Beanie didn't even sniff the field. Yeah, I know that personnel will switch around, but the starter will almost always have more carries than the 2nd back. That's just the way it usually shakes out. And I'm sorry, because though I love Timmy and what he can do, he is nowhere near as good as Beanie is, and if Timmy is getting more carries, our offense will simply not be as good.

Beanie is a bell-cow back. He's the guy to ride. Beanie should start and get 20+ carries a game. Timmy should get around 10+, and thrive as a receiving and blocking back on 3rd down. THOSE are the roles I think our two good RBs should have.

 

[IAWarnerFan]

The matter of who starts is almost irrelevant. All it really means is that Timmy is on the field for the first offensive play. We know that the carries will be split 50/50 to start and will probably favor Beanie towards the middle of the season. i like that we have two more than capable backs on this team to challenge each other, bring a different element to the offense and spell the other to mitigate the chance for injuries and physical exhaustion towards the end of games/season.

These days, it is a two-back league and we are fortunate to have two backs who are more than capable of taking the man's share of the carries. It's not out of the realm of possibility that this team is a top 10 running team in the NFL.

Agree completely with this. Granted things could change, but the way things look right now the Cardinals will be a run orientated offense. I could see Hightower running it on first down and just getting 3 or 4 yards followed by Beanie running it and breaking a long run or just the opposite. Either way this offense should run quite a bit more than it has the last couple years. Beanie was eased into the offense last year and will be again early in the year, but will get more carries as the season progresses. Even with Beanie probably getting the majority of the carries by the end of the year (around 300), Hightower should see an increase in his amount of carries (around 200).

 

[jw7]

but the starter will almost always have more carries than the 2nd back. That's just the way it usually shakes out.

But that is not evidenced by last year. Beanie was a day late for camp, got hurt, did not carry a lot in the fist 8 games, and still had 30 more carries than Tim.

Tim is looking better than last years camp, as is Beanie. They are pushing each other, but at this point, I don't see any reason for Tim to lose the starting spot.

If anything, with Tim's improved running and ability to catch, it is a deterrent for opposing D's to go 8-in-the-box. That said, I think Beanie becomes the starter by week 5 or 6, but he has not clearly beat out Tim in camp so far.

 

[Mitch]

The great college basketball coach Al Maguire used to say about who starts, "all I want to know is who's on the floor at the end of the game."

In TH's last start, he ran for a 76 yard TD on his first carry...yup in the New Orleans playoff game...and had a 100+ yard game. Seems he started that one just fine.

I don't think this is Whiz being stubborn...this is recognition for TH being the most complete back on the roster.

Just the same, what matters is that TH and BW and LSH help the team score TDs and win the games. They all will need to do their parts.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Hightower scored the greatest TD in cards history for me personally. The last TD against the eagles in the NFC championship. He can get the start for as long as he is with us for all I care (as long as Beanie gets most of the carries!).

 

[Stout]

But that is not evidenced by last year. Beanie was a day late for camp, got hurt, did not carry a lot in the fist 8 games, and still had 30 more carries than Tim.

Tim is looking better than last years camp, as is Beanie. They are pushing each other, but at this point, I don't see any reason for Tim to lose the starting spot.

If anything, with Tim's improved running and ability to catch, it is a deterrent for opposing D's to go 8-in-the-box. That said, I think Beanie becomes the starter by week 5 or 6, but he has not clearly beat out Tim in camp so far.

jw7, you forget that down the stretch, Beanie ended up getting the lion's share of the carries, and it really skewed the numbers. Unless Whiz is going to do the same thing he did in those games, in giving lip service to Timmy starting and then sitting him in favor of Beanie for large stretches of the game, then this whole idea of Hightower as a starter is a bad idea. Again, unless a coach purposefully starts a guy and then immediately starts sitting him during the game, the starter will logically get more carries.

Also, Beanie shouldn't have had to go out and win the job in camp. He freakin' WON the job already last season. By far, the burden should be on Timmy to vastly outperform Beanie in camp to take the starting spot. Wells showed in game action that he is clearly better. To me, Beanie easily won the starting nod last season. It's frustrating to see the coach remain mulishly stubborn on the issue, and to see fans react to the good story, nice guy Hightower and elevate him over a clearly better runner.

 

[Duckjake]

The great college basketball coach Al Maguire used to say about who starts, "all I want to know is who's on the floor at the end of the game."

In TH's last start, he ran for a 76 yard TD on his first carry...yup in the New Orleans playoff game...and had a 100+ yard game. Seems he started that one just fine.

I don't think this is Whiz being stubborn...this is recognition for TH being the most complete back on the roster.

Just the same, what matters is that TH and BW and LSH help the team score TDs and win the games. They all will need to do their parts.

TH also started the Green Bay playoff game with a 2 yard run and finished the game with 19 yards on 7 carries. What TH did by starting the game at RB was to keep the D off balance because the Cards passing offense was such a huge threat even on the first play of the game.

As for a deterrent to defenses keeping 8 men in the box, who cares? The Cards can run on them anyway.

EDIT: Can't get the link to the right video for some reason.

Instead:http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20091...:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

Click "Play by Play"

Then Go to the first "watch highlight" of the 2nd Quarter.

 

[kerouac9]

jw7, you forget that down the stretch, Beanie ended up getting the lion's share of the carries, and it really skewed the numbers. Unless Whiz is going to do the same thing he did in those games, in giving lip service to Timmy starting and then sitting him in favor of Beanie for large stretches of the game, then this whole idea of Hightower as a starter is a bad idea. Again, unless a coach purposefully starts a guy and then immediately starts sitting him during the game, the starter will logically get more carries.

Also, Beanie shouldn't have had to go out and win the job in camp. He freakin' WON the job already last season. By far, the burden should be on Timmy to vastly outperform Beanie in camp to take the starting spot. Wells showed in game action that he is clearly better. To me, Beanie easily won the starting nod last season. It's frustrating to see the coach remain mulishly stubborn on the issue, and to see fans react to the good story, nice guy Hightower and elevate him over a clearly better runner.

I expect that this is exactly what will happen. Beanie Wells is so superior to Tim Hightower that it's not even a question of "playing the hot hand." But I think that Timmy might see first series' action most (if not all) of the season, and then Beanie'll come in and start pounding away at defenses.

Part of it is tactical, I think; Whis will get an idea of how defenses will defend Hightower sets (which will largely be passing sets the rest of the game) in a relatively low-priority situation at the opening of a game. When Beanie comes in, the defenses he's facing will be quite different, but when it comes to important 3rd downs, the offensive coaching staff will have a better idea what's coming.

 

[Stout]

I expect that this is exactly what will happen. Beanie Wells is so superior to Tim Hightower that it's not even a question of "playing the hot hand." But I think that Timmy might see first series' action most (if not all) of the season, and then Beanie'll come in and start pounding away at defenses.

Part of it is tactical, I think; Whis will get an idea of how defenses will defend Hightower sets (which will largely be passing sets the rest of the game) in a relatively low-priority situation at the opening of a game. When Beanie comes in, the defenses he's facing will be quite different, but when it comes to important 3rd downs, the offensive coaching staff will have a better idea what's coming.

I like most of what you're saying here, and it does make sense. The problem is that the highlighted sentence is a recipe for disaster. The opening drive is such a vital chance to set the tone of the game. I do not want my star RB on the bench for the first drive. I want my star RB to get the bulk of the carries on the first drive. Aside from the obvious need to have the best RB with the best chance of breaking a big one in there, it is also imperative to get your star RB in a good rhythm as quickly as possible. Sitting him for the first series of the game will hamper that.

Beanie is our best runner. He needs to be in there the majority of the time. I believe that with every fiber of my being.

 

[Gee!]

Whis does this with every young player. He makes them earn a starting role and always talks about the need for "healthy competition." Beanie will get a majority of the carries so Hightower starting is a moot point.

I dont believe this.. Hightower took over the starting job his rookie season from Edge.. Hightower is only has one year more than Beanie in the league so they are both young players in that respect.. DRC started his first year.. Levi Brown started his rookie year..

 

[Shane]

I like most of what you're saying here, and it does make sense. The problem is that the highlighted sentence is a recipe for disaster. The opening drive is such a vital chance to set the tone of the game. I do not want my star RB on the bench for the first drive. I want my star RB to get the bulk of the carries on the first drive. Aside from the obvious need to have the best RB with the best chance of breaking a big one in there, it is also imperative to get your star RB in a good rhythm as quickly as possible. Sitting him for the first series of the game will hamper that.

Beanie is our best runner. He needs to be in there the majority of the time. I believe that with every fiber of my being.

You guys keep saying you want the guy in there with the best chance to break a big one. Beanie has yet to prove he is that guy. Hasent had a true game breaking run yet.

 

[Gee!]

Even so those #'s are skewed a tad. Beanie also had two pitch backs from Warner that were right in his hands that he just flat dropped that were not counted as fumbles for some reason.

Hightower fumbled in crucial points in the game.. I remember clearly he fumbled while we were in the redzone twice last year.. In points of the game that we could have gone up, but it ended up giving the other team more points.. You wont see a stat for that either..

 

[Shane]

Hightower fumbled in crucial points in the game.. I remember clearly he fumbled while we were in the redzone twice last year.. In points of the game that we could have gone up, but it ended up giving the other team more points.. You wont see a stat for that either..

They both fumbled in critical points of the game. Point is?

 

[kerouac9]

I like most of what you're saying here, and it does make sense. The problem is that the highlighted sentence is a recipe for disaster. The opening drive is such a vital chance to set the tone of the game. I do not want my star RB on the bench for the first drive. I want my star RB to get the bulk of the carries on the first drive. Aside from the obvious need to have the best RB with the best chance of breaking a big one in there, it is also imperative to get your star RB in a good rhythm as quickly as possible. Sitting him for the first series of the game will hamper that.

Beanie is our best runner. He needs to be in there the majority of the time. I believe that with every fiber of my being.

Meh. If Hightower starting leads to a bunch of 2nd and 8s, 3rd and 6s to begin the season, he's not going to be starting long. But if his being on the field leads to a couple of first downs, all it takes is someone running out of bounds to get Beanie into the huddle.

Honestly, I expect that Beanie, Hightower, and LSH are going to get game time this year. I'm not fretting over it.

 

[Gee!]

They both fumbled in critical points of the game. Point is?

I guess your arguement is any fumble is critical.. I was speaking of clear scoring opprotunities that got coughed up.. I like Hightower, dont get me wrong.. Im just getting tired of everyone pinning Beanie as the chronic fumbler on this team.. Clearly, at least to me, Hightower's fumbles cost us alot more than Beanie's did.. And he had more than Beanie too..

 

[Stout]

You guys keep saying you want the guy in there with the best chance to break a big one. Beanie has yet to prove he is that guy. Hasent had a true game breaking run yet.

You're honestly going to say that you don't think Beanie is more of a threat to break the big one than Hightower is? Really? I think you're smarter than that, Shane.

Yeah, go ahead and mention Timmy's playoff run--it was a great play--and talk about how Beanie didn't have one that long. Before you do that, though, go back and watch the tape, and tell me who has better burst, speed, power and all-out scariness to the opposition. That player is clearly Beanie Wells. He broke a lot of long runs--more than TH--but was unfortunate not to get the big 50+yd TD run. He did have a good handfull of 20yd TD runs, if I recall correctly. Did Timmy?

 

[Shane]

I guess your arguement is any fumble is critical.. I was speaking of clear scoring opprotunities that got coughed up.. I like Hightower, dont get me wrong.. Im just getting tired of everyone pinning Beanie as the chronic fumbler on this team.. Clearly, at least to me, Hightower's fumbles cost us alot more than Beanie's did.. And he had more than Beanie too..

Their fumbles cost the team equally. Technically in the stats Beanie fumbled a little less. but the stats don't account for the two pitch outs from Warner that went right into beanies hands and he just flat dropped. Those were not counted as beanie fumbles.

 

[Shane]

You're honestly going to say that you don't think Beanie is more of a threat to break the big one than Hightower is? Really? I think you're smarter than that, Shane.

Yeah, go ahead and mention Timmy's playoff run--it was a great play--and talk about how Beanie didn't have one that long. Before you do that, though, go back and watch the tape, and tell me who has better burst, speed, power and all-out scariness to the opposition. That player is clearly Beanie Wells. He broke a lot of long runs--more than TH--but was unfortunate not to get the big 50+yd TD run. He did have a good handfull of 20yd TD runs, if I recall correctly. Did Timmy?

I fully believe that beanie is the more talented runner. No question. Already stated as such earlier. But he has yet to show he is a game breaker regardless of the talent. Timmy had the only 2 runs over 50 yards on the team last season. He has at least shown that when the opportunity is there he will break a long one.

 

[DieHardCardFan]

The truth of the matter is many of you where praising Beanie as the second coming before he even took and NFL snap. Why in the heck cant people be happy that we have two very good RB's? Clearly Whis makes a good point about TH and the fact that he has proven what he can do. Beanie has shown "signs" of what we all hope and expect him to do. But he has yet to really do those things, and he did get the majority of the carries last season. I think it is a bit naive and bias to insinuate that had Beanie started rather than played the role he did last year that this team would have been better off. We went 10-6 !

In the clutch TH has proven himself an invaluable comodity. Beanie has proven that he is explosive. These guys are going to have great careers and a great season. Unless you are K9 it is hard to argue against that. K9 would have people believe that TH would be third string on any other team and must have naked pictures of Whis that he uses as black mail.

 

[Treefiddy]

Here's another stat, though I don't need stats to show how talented a RB Beanie is, that I like about BWells. He had 11 games last season with at least one run of 15 yards or more (18 game season).

For comparison in 2008 Edge had 4 (20 game season). 2007 7 games. 2006 2 games.

What are you doing Duck?!

We all know Beanie is going to suck this year.

 

[Buckybird]

I fully believe that beanie is the more talented runner. No question. Already stated as such earlier. But he has yet to show he is a game breaker regardless of the talent. Timmy had the only 2 runs over 50 yards on the team last season. He has at least shown that when the opportunity is there he will break a long one.

I'll take ten 20 yd runs over 2 50yd runs anyday!!! I don't know where to find it, but I'm pretty sure that Beanie had more 10+ yard runs than THT did last season. I also bet if you ask the other 31 NFL teams which runner they would fear more that 30 of them would say Beanie Wells. To think THT is more explosive or a bigger threat to break more long runs is almost laughable.

 

[Duckjake]

I'll take ten 20 yd runs over 2 50yd runs anyday!!! I don't know where to find it, but I'm pretty sure that Beanie had more 10+ yard runs than THT did last season. I also bet if you ask the other 31 NFL teams which runner they would fear more that 30 of them would say Beanie Wells. To think THT is more explosive or a bigger threat to break more long runs is almost laughable.

Me too. I'll take 10 5-20 yard runs a game over two 50 yard runs total over a 38 game period.

Hightower simply cannot produce as the lead back. We've already seen two years of it. Hightower just cannot run the ball effectively when asked to carry the load offensively. He is great running when the opposing d is looking pass or inside the redzone. Between the 20s you better have Beanie running the football.

Hightower is Marcel Shipp. Beanie is OJ Anderson.

 

[DieHardCardFan]

I guess it is a good thing they are both good, otherwise we would not have all this debate. I am partial to THT but I wont knock Beanie I think they will both have great careers and a great season.