Why we will take a DT in the first round...

[Chopper0080]

Because no one else will be there to help us on defense. Here are some draft facts.

Newman will be taken with the first pick in the draft if the bengals don't trade back. The Bengals will grab either Grossman or Boller or Ragone with the 23rd or 33rd pick.

Charles Rogers will be a Lion unless someone moves ahead of Detroit.

The Texans want Jordan Gross or Andre Johnson, but neither of them at the 3rd spot. Will be the best bet to move down.

Suggs won't make it pass Chicago, but if he does, he will be taken by Dallas.

We, the Cardinals, need defensive help or a top flight wide receiver to help out immediately (and a defensive end if Holliday doesn't sign). The only position to help out the defense with any value is at defensive tackle where there is two to choose from (Jimmy Kennedy or Dewayne Robertson) and both of these guys could come in and contribute immediately. Trufant isn't worth the six spot and he is the next best corner. So that leaves offense where we can choose from Andre Johnson who is to unpolished to have an immediate impact for the team or Leftwich, who has been injured and won't be able to contribute for a least a year.

All this means that if we are a team who wants to change our league wide image as a loser, we need to take the best draft pick available that will help our team immediately. This pick just happens to be at the defensive tackle position.

P.S. If you want Suggs, you will have to wait until after the Bengals choose to see if they take him and then move to the 3rd spot. I would love to see Suggs here also, but he isn't worth next year's number one, or this or next year's number two. Why give up two probable starters for one, especially since we are more than just a pass rush away? But if we could have him for a couple third rounders, I'd be game.

 

[kerouac9]

This is just a hunch, but I see the Lions sending shockwaves through the league and drafting Newman with the #2 pick, if he makes it there. Look at what they did last year: no one expected them to take Harrington, they were supposed to take... was it Jammer? All this talk about Charles Rogers makes me a little nervous.

The Lions have too much money already invested in WRs (Az-Hakim and Schroeder) and their D is really, really bad, but only against the passing game.

On the other hand, they shelled out mad skrill for Bly. I don't know anything, except about Marcel Shipp.

 

[pinnacle]

interesting..in your scenario palmer and leftowich are available at #6..I do not think cincy takes newman ..but we shall see.

 

[Chopper0080]

Pinnacle-

If not Newman who? The only other person worth drafting at number 1 either then Palmer, who they won't take now, is Suggs and Suggs would be more of a luxury pick. Not saying that I oculdn't see them grabbing him as he would make excellant complement to Justin Smith on the other side. But, remember that the Bengals were very close to drafting Phillip Buchanon last year and didn't. Don't think that they will pass up on the speed, coverage ability and playmaking skills of Newman.

I am curious to hear who you think they will pick though.

 

[Stout]

While I question a number of your statements of fact in your post, the thing I most vehemently disagree with is the title because I guarantee that the Cards do NOT take a DT with the #6 overall pick. Why?

We have Wendell Bryant (big cap hit). We won't take another even bigger cap hit at the same position. Plain cap-o-nomics. Not at the DT position. At the OT position, CB, etc...maybe, but not at DT. Graves has already stated we're spending too much $$$ on the O-line (thus the cutting of Grutts). IMO, they will apply this same philosophy at the DT position.

Besides, they have Bell, Tanner and Russell all at the DT position. I think the club (not myself) may feel set at the position, or more likely will feel they can upgrade later in the draft.

Finally, this is a DT-heavy draft. Why spend another top pick on the same position when quality can be had later?

Therefore, I personally guarantee we will NOT take a DT at the #6 overall position.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Stout
Besides, they have Bell, Tanner and Russell all at the DT position. I think the club (not myself) may feel set at the position, or more likely will feel they can upgrade later in the draft.

Wow. If this is, in fact, true, then Mac and Greene totally don't deserve their jobs. Those three guys all really, really suck, and none of them would start on any other team in this league. The Cards would be smart to protect their investment in Bryant and McKinnon (and the two OLBs, as well) by nabbing a quality 2-gap T like Robertson or Kennedy at #6 and allowing those players space to make plays.

 

[Chopper0080]

So you are saying that we will pass on the pick with the most value (in this scenario) and the most immediate impact because of Russell Davis, Marcus Bell, and Barron Tanner as well as money? What high priced talent do we have on the defensive line other than Wendell Bryant, who is hardy HIGH priced (he makes much less than Rosevelt Colvin)? This is one of our BIGGEST needs and we pass on it because we took it in the first round last year? Does Tampa Bay have too much talent at the defensive tackle position? No. Does Tampa Bay have too high of a priced defensive line? Not in their opinion. There is a difference in paying four offensive tackle contracts to two offensive tackles and two offensive guards than having one moderatley priced defensive tackle, a second round pick, a third round pick, two fifth rounders and two journeymen.

 

[Chopper0080]

other than all that, what else do you disgree with?

 

[pinnacle]

personally.. I thought if they (cinci) stay in the pick they go palmer...but I have not heard any updates recently on this - kitna is not the answer long term. I know they took smith - but I think he is a different type of player..suggs may be more in the hugh douglas or almost colvin mode - part time end and part time linebacker..I saw smith play alot as I am a mizzou fan -and I was shocked he was picked so high..

While newman is a great athlete..he is a little on the small side. As far as the cardinals go - we could obviously use newman - but we would have so much $$ tied up in the seconardy I do not think we will do it..according to your scenario - he will be long gone anyway.. I heard the cardinals are not high on kennedy and like robertson better..but that is rumor only..

 

[Chopper0080]

Well if all my signs are true and this all does happen I do hope we take Robertson because we would have one of the most athletic defensive tackle pairs out there.

 

[pinnacle]

just and FYI..we do not have russell davis..we may - but he is an unrestriced free agent. I do think if they get an end or two wakefield becomes a tackle most of the time (assuming he bulks up).

I am having a tough time determining what the cardinals will do. The obvious is WR, DT, DE or CB - but which of the 4. If suggs is gone and we sign a holliday or someone else, there is horrible value at DE - so it is almost off the board for the 6th pick is suggs is gone..same for linebacker - no one in the top 15. . WR, DT and CB are curious because we have needs at all three and we have brought in only one free agent at these three positions (Thorton) and we did not make him and offer..very odd..

 

[pinnacle]

but... If I had to pencil someone in for the cards in a mock draft and suggs is gone..I would put in robertson - my guess on what they will end up doing..

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Wow. If this is, in fact, true, then Mac and Greene totally don't deserve their jobs. Those three guys all really, really suck, and none of them would start on any other team in this league. The Cards would be smart to protect their investment in Bryant and McKinnon (and the two OLBs, as well) by nabbing a quality 2-gap T like Robertson or Kennedy at #6 and allowing those players space to make plays.

I think that you are wrong about Bell, Tanner, and Russell, but only to a point. All three are good backup rotational guys, and I guarantee that any team would take them in that capacity. That said, I don't think they are "starting" caliber.

Robertson might be our best option.....he actually (with his athletic talent) could probably play a one OR two gap (he has the quicks required for a one gap, and the strength and size for a two)

 

[Chopper0080]

Hey Krang, I see you haven't posted in my other thread on breaking down the draft. Hey, why don't ya. Makes my posts look intellectual.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Stout
While I question a number of your statements of fact in your post, the thing I most vehemently disagree with is the title because I guarantee that the Cards do NOT take a DT with the #6 overall pick. Why?

We have Wendell Bryant (big cap hit). We won't take another even bigger cap hit at the same position. Plain cap-o-nomics. Not at the DT position. At the OT position, CB, etc...maybe, but not at DT. Graves has already stated we're spending too much $$$ on the O-line (thus the cutting of Grutts). IMO, they will apply this same philosophy at the DT position.

Besides, they have Bell, Tanner and Russell all at the DT position. I think the club (not myself) may feel set at the position, or more likely will feel they can upgrade later in the draft.

Finally, this is a DT-heavy draft. Why spend another top pick on the same position when quality can be had later?

Therefore, I personally guarantee we will NOT take a DT at the #6 overall position.

Dude Stout, we aren't paying Bryant THAT much. He is only making around 2 million, and we could definitely afford another tackle. John Thornton is getting paid about twice that.

It is a common misconception among NFL fans that rookies cost a whole bunch. Outside of the top five, rookies are actually very affordable, if not cheap. Robertson will command a contract around 3 million per season if we draft him at six.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
Hey Krang, I see you haven't posted in my other thread on breaking down the draft. Hey, why don't ya. Makes my posts look intellectual.

Whatever

What is your problem? Did a Cat pee in your cornflakes? Jerk.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I don't know anything, except about Marcel Shipp.

Thats VERY questionable!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Wait a sec....you weren't insulting me were you?

If you weren't.....sorry

If you were.....

 

[Chopper0080]

No I wasn't insulting you, BUT HOW DID YOU KNOW A CAT PISSED IN MY CORNFLAKES!!!!!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
No I wasn't insulting you, BUT HOW DID YOU KNOW A CAT PISSED IN MY CORNFLAKES!!!!!

Happens to me all the time!

 

[Chopper0080]

Hey, Krang, that was me kidding again. Sorry I had a bunch of business tests today and am a little strung out. Gonna barbacue and booze it up tonight so I should be back to my normal self by tommorrow.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
Hey, Krang, that was me kidding again. Sorry I had a bunch of business tests today and am a little strung out. Gonna barbacue and booze it up tonight so I should be back to my normal self by tommorrow.

Yeah, I had a whole bunch of tests today myself....where do you go to school?

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
So you are saying that we will pass on the pick with the most value (in this scenario) and the most immediate impact because of Russell Davis, Marcus Bell, and Barron Tanner as well as money? What high priced talent do we have on the defensive line other than Wendell Bryant, who is hardy HIGH priced (he makes much less than Rosevelt Colvin)? This is one of our BIGGEST needs and we pass on it because we took it in the first round last year? Does Tampa Bay have too much talent at the defensive tackle position? No. Does Tampa Bay have too high of a priced defensive line? Not in their opinion. There is a difference in paying four offensive tackle contracts to two offensive tackles and two offensive guards than having one moderatley priced defensive tackle, a second round pick, a third round pick, two fifth rounders and two journeymen.

Yes, I am saying we will pass on a DT at the #6 spot (maybe not if we trade down) for the reasons I stated. I'm not saying I agree with that at all. I'm just saying it won't happen.

If Leftwich, Suggs and Newman are gone (in that order), then I'd jump all over Jimmy Kennedy, a stud who's from PSU to boot!

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Chopper0080
other than all that, what else do you disgree with?

I'm not nearly as sure that Cincy will take Newman if they don't trade down...I'm fairly certain, IMO, they won't. I also disagree that Gross and Johnson are necessarily the targets for Houston. It's a very good possibilty for each of them, but they may like Kennedy or they may like the other OT (name escapes me) better than Gross. Remember, the Bungles took Levi Jones when there was a better OT available last year.

I do agree the Lions will take Rogers at the #2.