Why Whiz should be on the heatseat.

RugbyMuffin

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Seriously. For our own sanity, Whiz should be feeling the heat.

1. I think getting a wheel, putting QB names on it, and spinning the wheel would produce better QB analysis than Whiz and company can provide. I dunno, does it ever feel like most of the other teams can figure something out, and this organization just spins its wheels. Whiz has not brought in a QB that can do squat, and Kevin Kolb is under his name. Whiz and company brought Kolb in, and paid him a King's ransom. The best thing is ? When the Kolb situation is over, it will haunt this organization for half a decade.

2. Whiz offense is not for the free agency period. Whiz and the Cardinals are not a good fit. There I said it. If Kurt Warner never played in AZ, Whiz would have been fired two years ago. Left and right there are teams with QB's in there 1st, 2nd or 3rd year that seem to be able to grasp and play in their team's offense. Imagine that, watching a successful offense move the ball down the field. What an idea !! Why can't the Cardinals do that ? Cause they run an offense that is mind numbingly too hard for the modern football team. Too many new players each year, and an offense that needs a year or so of stability. You think the Cardinals are going to "retain players" ? Uh, that is not really the Cardinals strength as an organization. The result is a bunch of players QB, and offensive line that cannot seem to figure out, or play well enough in this offense. The offensive linemen can't remember what to do, and don't have the ability to do it, and the QB is so confused he can't make quick decisions. Whiz's system does no work, no matter how much he pimps his success in the Kurt Warner years. The system is dated, and horrible. The proof is what we all see every week.

3. The offensive line. If we have to fire Whiz, to fire Grimm then so be it. At no time while Whiz and Grimm have been in charge has our offensive line been of NFL quality. That is atrocious, and it has been atrocious. Levi Brown is the best acquisition by Whiz and Grimm while in AZ. Let that sink it. That opportunities have been out there to improve the line. If you look through the last few years, there have been players that could have been drafted or brought in over the last few year to help this offensive line. Instead we bring in the Michael Floyd's of the world. While I wanted another big WR on the roster, it didn't have to be a 1st round pick, and instead of having some promise on the OL we have a 4th WR for this year the could just as easily been LaRon Byrd. Great job Whiz! You got the cart pulling the horse.

4. Whiz's teams are bi-polar. One week they look great, the next they look like the worst team in the league. This has grown tiresome. Why can't this team consistently come out and play well. Last night was a perfect example. This team played like ca-ca. Yes, the offensive line was horrendous, but to tell you the truth. That was to be expected, and since it was expected, I wasn't that discouraged but the line's play for what talent they have on it. The QB's sucked, but that is of little or no surprise. But the run game also sucked, our receivers dropped WAY too many passes, like Michael Floyd, and Todd Heap. The team just looked flat. Another signature of Whiz's tenure here in AZ.



Whiz has good qualities, but the results, and the re-occurring short comings are going to be the guys doom in AZ. Make all the excuses you want for the guy, but these four problems have never even been improved upon while here in AZ.

The only real improvement I have seen is in the defense with Ray Horton, and in the running game, but even that is slight.

AH WELL. It IS the preseason for everyone, and even though this post is not really about the entire preseason, and more about Whiz's time here in AZ. I still have not problem supporting the guy, but when things look bad, and things look pretty bad for this organization right now. It is time to look in the mirror, and that is what I would assume are Whiz's mistakes while in AZ.

Yes, the guy has brought the team to success during his time here. A success that we have not seen in over a half-century. But, while it is debatable, Warner had A LOT to do with the success, and without Kurt Warner, has Whiz really been any different then past Cardinal coaches ?

With preseason more or less over, it is up to the first 4 weeks to show us what the 2012 Cardinals are going to be all about. If the preseason has shown us anything, then....... more of the same, and that is not good.

EDIT: Notice I said heat, not hot. But, the temperature is rising.
 
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red desert

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Seriously. For our own sanity, Whiz should be feeling the heat.

1. I think getting a wheel, putting QB names on it, and spinning the wheel would produce better QB analysis than Whiz and company can provide. I dunno, does it ever feel like most of the other teams can figure something out, and this organization just spins its wheels. Whiz has not brought in a QB that can do squat, and Kevin Kolb is under his name. Whiz and company brought Kolb in, and paid him a King's ransom. The best thing is ? When the Kolb situation is over, it will haunt this organization for half a decade.

2. Whiz offense is not for the free agency period. Whiz and the Cardinals are not a good fit. There I said it. If Kurt Warner never played in AZ, Whiz would have been fired two years ago. Left and right there are teams with QB's in there 1st, 2nd or 3rd year that seem to be able to grasp and play in their team's offense. Imagine that, watching a successful offense move the ball down the field. What an idea !! Why can't the Cardinals do that ? Cause they run an offense that is mind numbingly too hard for the modern football team. Too many new players each year, and an offense that needs a year or so of stability. You think the Cardinals are going to "retain players" ? Uh, that is not really the Cardinals strength as an organization. The result is a bunch of players QB, and offensive line that cannot seem to figure out, or play well enough in this offense. The offensive linemen can't remember what to do, and don't have the ability to do it, and the QB is so confused he can't make quick decisions. Whiz's system does no work, no matter how much he pimps his success in the Kurt Warner years. The system is dated, and horrible. The proof is what we all see every week.

3. The offensive line. If we have to fire Whiz, to fire Grimm then so be it. At no time while Whiz and Grimm have been in charge has our offensive line been of NFL quality. That is atrocious, and it has been atrocious. Levi Brown is the best acquisition by Whiz and Grimm while in AZ. Let that sink it. That opportunities have been out there to improve the line. If you look through the last few years, there have been players that could have been drafted or brought in over the last few year to help this offensive line. Instead we bring in the Michael Floyd's of the world. While I wanted another big WR on the roster, it didn't have to be a 1st round pick, and instead of having some promise on the OL we have a 4th WR for this year the could just as easily been Domonic Byrd. Great job Whiz! You got the cart pulling the horse.

4. Whiz's teams are bi-polar. One week they look great, the next they look like the worst team in the league. This has grown tiresome. Why can't this team consistently come out and play well. Last night was a perfect example. This team played like ca-ca. Yes, the offensive line was horrendous, but to tell you the truth. That was to be expected, and since it was expected, I wasn't that discouraged but the line's play for what talent they have on it. The QB's sucked, but that is of little or no surprise. But the run game also sucked, our receivers dropped WAY too many passes, like Michael Floyd, and Todd Heap. The team just looked flat. Another signature of Whiz's tenure here in AZ.



Whiz has good qualities, but the results, and the re-occurring short comings are going to be the guys doom in AZ. Make all the excuses you want for the guy, but these four problems have never even been improved upon while here in AZ.

The only real improvement I have seen is in the defense with Ray Horton, and in the running game, but even that is slight.

AH WELL. It IS the preseason for everyone, and even though this post is not really about the entire preseason, and more about Whiz's time here in AZ. I still have not problem supporting the guy, but when things look bad, and things look pretty bad for this organization right now. It is time to look in the mirror, and that is what I would assume are Whiz's mistakes while in AZ.

Yes, the guy has brought the team to success during his time here. A success that we have not seen in over a half-century. But, while it is debatable, Warner had A LOT to do with the success, and without Kurt Warner, has Whiz really been any different then past Cardinal coaches ?

With preseason more or less over, it is up to the first 4 weeks to show us what the 2012 Cardinals are going to be all about. If the preseason has shown us anything, then....... more of the same, and that is not good.

Rugby Muffin, My Hero. :thumbup:
 

Bodha

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These threads were running rampant last year when we went 1-6.


Not so much when we finished 7-2.



Dont be so fickle. Bill Belechik would struggle with Skelton and Kolb as his QB options, not to mention the worst starting Oline in the NFL. Hes a good coach who has a horrible team right now.
 

PDXChris

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These threads were running rampant last year when we went 1-6.


Not so much when we finished 7-2.



Dont be so fickle. Bill Belechik would struggle with Skelton and Kolb as his QB options, not to mention the worst starting Oline in the NFL. Hes a good coach who has a horrible team right now.

Hey, I think someone hacked your account. :D

But seriously, spot on!!!!!:thumbup:
 

blindseyed

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These threads were running rampant last year when we went 1-6.


Not so much when we finished 7-2.



Dont be so fickle. Bill Belechik would struggle with Skelton and Kolb as his QB options, not to mention the worst starting Oline in the NFL. Hes a good coach who has a horrible team right now.


Belichick would never be in a position of bad QB's and a bad O-line in the first place he knows how to evaluate and run a winning team so bad example
 

red desert

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These threads were running rampant last year when we went 1-6.


Not so much when we finished 7-2.



Dont be so fickle. Bill Belechik would struggle with Skelton and Kolb as his QB options, not to mention the worst starting Oline in the NFL. Hes a good coach who has a horrible team right now.

Don't kid yourself. Belechik would never field a team like this. Certainly not an o-line like ours.
 

kerouac9

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Next year he's on the hot seat. I believe that Whis is exercising a lot of control over the makeup of the roster from February through July. I don't think there's a system or organizational problem with the Arizona Cardinals; I think there's a personnel problem.

If Whis struggles to a 6-10 season or worse this year, he should end up on the hot seat in 2013. But you can't make a quick, emotional decision on the most successful player in the history of your franchise. If there's someone out there you can bring in and would be a clear upgrade? Then fine. But if we fired Whis at the end of this year, and end up with the 4th overall pick in the NFL draft, are you going to be able to recruit a better head coach (and staff on a limited budget because we just extended a bunch of people)? I don't think so.
 

Bodha

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Belichick would never be in a position of bad QB's and a bad O-line in the first place he knows how to evaluate and run a winning team so bad example

You could say the same of about 27 other teams. HOF coaches are equally hard to come by as Franchise QBs. So stop acting like we're this ultimate failure team. Last time I checked, its been awhile since we had the #1 overall pick, so while we arent winning any lombardi trophies, we're at least putting up a fight.
 

Shane

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Belichick would never be in a position of bad QB's and a bad O-line in the first place he knows how to evaluate and run a winning team so bad example

Thats easy to say when he works under Pats management and has been "stuck" with Tom Brady for more than a decade!

Where were hsi great QB's while coaching the Browns??
 

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Next year he's on the hot seat. I believe that Whis is exercising a lot of control over the makeup of the roster from February through July. I don't think there's a system or organizational problem with the Arizona Cardinals; I think there's a personnel problem.

If Whis struggles to a 6-10 season or worse this year, he should end up on the hot seat in 2013. But you can't make a quick, emotional decision on the most successful player in the history of your franchise. If there's someone out there you can bring in and would be a clear upgrade? Then fine. But if we fired Whis at the end of this year, and end up with the 4th overall pick in the NFL draft, are you going to be able to recruit a better head coach (and staff on a limited budget because we just extended a bunch of people)? I don't think so.

Agreed though I think the personnel department deserves more blame.

Fire Rod Graves.
 

Shane

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Next year he's on the hot seat. I believe that Whis is exercising a lot of control over the makeup of the roster from February through July. I don't think there's a system or organizational problem with the Arizona Cardinals; I think there's a personnel problem.

If Whis struggles to a 6-10 season or worse this year, he should end up on the hot seat in 2013. But you can't make a quick, emotional decision on the most successful player in the history of your franchise. If there's someone out there you can bring in and would be a clear upgrade? Then fine. But if we fired Whis at the end of this year, and end up with the 4th overall pick in the NFL draft, are you going to be able to recruit a better head coach (and staff on a limited budget because we just extended a bunch of people)? I don't think so.

Great post K9
 
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RugbyMuffin

RugbyMuffin

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These threads were running rampant last year when we went 1-6. Not so much when we finished 7-2.Dont be so fickle.

Fair enough.

But to be fair to myself, I have been pretty consistent with the 4 problems above concerning Whiz since 2010.

Yet, this IS only the preseason, and I AM upset with last night, more for the fact that it zapped me for any hope of moving forward this year.

8-8 feels like a pipedream this morning....which in fairness to the Cardinals is after a game, so there is that.

Good stuff, Bodha :thumbup:
 
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john h

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Seriously. For our own sanity, Whiz should be feeling the heat.

1. I think getting a wheel, putting QB names on it, and spinning the wheel would produce better QB analysis than Whiz and company can provide. I dunno, does it ever feel like most of the other teams can figure something out, and this organization just spins its wheels. Whiz has not brought in a QB that can do squat, and Kevin Kolb is under his name. Whiz and company brought Kolb in, and paid him a King's ransom. The best thing is ? When the Kolb situation is over, it will haunt this organization for half a decade.

2. Whiz offense is not for the free agency period. Whiz and the Cardinals are not a good fit. There I said it. If Kurt Warner never played in AZ, Whiz would have been fired two years ago. Left and right there are teams with QB's in there 1st, 2nd or 3rd year that seem to be able to grasp and play in their team's offense. Imagine that, watching a successful offense move the ball down the field. What an idea !! Why can't the Cardinals do that ? Cause they run an offense that is mind numbingly too hard for the modern football team. Too many new players each year, and an offense that needs a year or so of stability. You think the Cardinals are going to "retain players" ? Uh, that is not really the Cardinals strength as an organization. The result is a bunch of players QB, and offensive line that cannot seem to figure out, or play well enough in this offense. The offensive linemen can't remember what to do, and don't have the ability to do it, and the QB is so confused he can't make quick decisions. Whiz's system does no work, no matter how much he pimps his success in the Kurt Warner years. The system is dated, and horrible. The proof is what we all see every week.

3. The offensive line. If we have to fire Whiz, to fire Grimm then so be it. At no time while Whiz and Grimm have been in charge has our offensive line been of NFL quality. That is atrocious, and it has been atrocious. Levi Brown is the best acquisition by Whiz and Grimm while in AZ. Let that sink it. That opportunities have been out there to improve the line. If you look through the last few years, there have been players that could have been drafted or brought in over the last few year to help this offensive line. Instead we bring in the Michael Floyd's of the world. While I wanted another big WR on the roster, it didn't have to be a 1st round pick, and instead of having some promise on the OL we have a 4th WR for this year the could just as easily been Domonic Byrd. Great job Whiz! You got the cart pulling the horse.

4. Whiz's teams are bi-polar. One week they look great, the next they look like the worst team in the league. This has grown tiresome. Why can't this team consistently come out and play well. Last night was a perfect example. This team played like ca-ca. Yes, the offensive line was horrendous, but to tell you the truth. That was to be expected, and since it was expected, I wasn't that discouraged but the line's play for what talent they have on it. The QB's sucked, but that is of little or no surprise. But the run game also sucked, our receivers dropped WAY too many passes, like Michael Floyd, and Todd Heap. The team just looked flat. Another signature of Whiz's tenure here in AZ.



Whiz has good qualities, but the results, and the re-occurring short comings are going to be the guys doom in AZ. Make all the excuses you want for the guy, but these four problems have never even been improved upon while here in AZ.

The only real improvement I have seen is in the defense with Ray Horton, and in the running game, but even that is slight.

AH WELL. It IS the preseason for everyone, and even though this post is not really about the entire preseason, and more about Whiz's time here in AZ. I still have not problem supporting the guy, but when things look bad, and things look pretty bad for this organization right now. It is time to look in the mirror, and that is what I would assume are Whiz's mistakes while in AZ.

Yes, the guy has brought the team to success during his time here. A success that we have not seen in over a half-century. But, while it is debatable, Warner had A LOT to do with the success, and without Kurt Warner, has Whiz really been any different then past Cardinal coaches ?

With preseason more or less over, it is up to the first 4 weeks to show us what the 2012 Cardinals are going to be all about. If the preseason has shown us anything, then....... more of the same, and that is not good.

EDIT: Notice I said heat, not hot. But, the temperature is rising.

One thing Whiz did not do was make that Kolb trade. He may have had input but sure was not the guy who pulled the trigger.
 

john h

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Next year he's on the hot seat. I believe that Whis is exercising a lot of control over the makeup of the roster from February through July. I don't think there's a system or organizational problem with the Arizona Cardinals; I think there's a personnel problem.

If Whis struggles to a 6-10 season or worse this year, he should end up on the hot seat in 2013. But you can't make a quick, emotional decision on the most successful player in the history of your franchise. If there's someone out there you can bring in and would be a clear upgrade? Then fine. But if we fired Whis at the end of this year, and end up with the 4th overall pick in the NFL draft, are you going to be able to recruit a better head coach (and staff on a limited budget because we just extended a bunch of people)? I don't think so.

I think last year he should get a A for going 8/8 with the QB situation.
 

NeverSayDieFan

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Excellent points, Rugby...

Yes! it is me. I can type w/o using caps to overly dramatize my sentences. :D

It boggles my mind to think that with the same problems year after, next to nothing is done to correct them.

Football is a very basic game.

If you have a great offensive line you can do pretty much what you want to the other teams' D.

If you have a great defensive line you alter, or even control, what the other teams' offense is trying to do.

It's not rocket science! :bang:

I know it's only hind-sight now but I was hoping we'd take DeCastro. Floyd will contribute but only if we fix our line.

Take Care!

Mark in SC :)
 

kerouac9

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Agreed though I think the personnel department deserves more blame.

Fire Rod Graves.

I'm not going to carry water for Rod Graves, but I really don't think he's the primary driver of personnel decisions.

How much personal responsibility do you assign to Whis for these high-profile personnel decisions?

- Cutting Matt Leinart, and making Derek Anderson the starter
- Identifying Kevin Kolb as the best option for the 2011 starting quarterback
- Signing Bryant McFadden as the #2 CB
- Drafting Alan Branch
- Drafting Levi Brown
- Signing Adam Snyder
- Starting Brandon Keith
- Trading Anquan Boldin
- Drafting Ryan Williams

I think that more important than the person empowered to say "yes" on personnel decisions is the guy who has the ability to say "no" and move the conversation on to the next topic. It's my opinion that Whis has built enough capital on Hardy Drive that if he says "no" than we're going to move on.
 

splitsecond

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One reason and one reason alone is enough: his continued blindness to Russ Grimm's complete inability to develop linemen in regards to pass blocking
 

joeshmo

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He is not going to be on the hot seat. But I do think if we have another year like the last two, the powers that be may ask him to make some decisions that he does not want to make, ultimatums if you will. We could also see a power shift in the Personnel department more towards Licht(Pro Player) and Keim(College). He may be given less so called, "final say" power.
 

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I'm not going to carry water for Rod Graves, but I really don't think he's the primary driver of personnel decisions.

How much personal responsibility do you assign to Whis for these high-profile personnel decisions?

- Cutting Matt Leinart, and making Derek Anderson the starter
- Identifying Kevin Kolb as the best option for the 2011 starting quarterback
- Signing Bryant McFadden as the #2 CB
- Drafting Alan Branch
- Drafting Levi Brown
- Signing Adam Snyder
- Starting Brandon Keith
- Trading Anquan Boldin
- Drafting Ryan Williams

I think that more important than the person empowered to say "yes" on personnel decisions is the guy who has the ability to say "no" and move the conversation on to the next topic. It's my opinion that Whis has built enough capital on Hardy Drive that if he says "no" than we're going to move on.

Valid points. You could even add getting dudes like Alan Faneca, Joey Porter, Todd Heap. Freaking dinasaurs with nothing left. It goes on and on.
 

SissyBoyFloyd

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Ditto on everything. You guys all nailed it.

However, I wonder how many of you were fans in the late 80s and 90s when even a discussion regarding the playoffs were non-existent, and when our team (and coach) totally quit playing with several games to go in the season, instead of fighting back and going 7-2 with a second team QB.

Yes, I am one to get really down on Whiz and everything said in this thread. But still, we are only a QB and a few good OLmen away. If only our coach and front office could get that through their head.


PS. Did we really spend a high first round pick on another..... Oh well.
 

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Valid points. You could even add getting dudes like Alan Faneca, Joey Porter, Todd Heap. Freaking dinasaurs with nothing left. It goes on and on.

Actually, I think that in all fairness, these were not high-profile deals and probably represents more of a failure of the scouting department. I don't think that the coaching staff has a ton of time to sit around and watch every snap from these three teams and decide that these guys are still good or not. None of them really broke the bank in terms of salary cap or crippled our flexibility on the roster.

Joe's pointed out that the people in charge of evaluating league free agents have been removed and replaced. I think the failure of these deals and the inability for immediate contribution by guys like Stewart Bradley did inspire action.
 

Shane

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Actually, I think that in all fairness, these were not high-profile deals and probably represents more of a failure of the scouting department. I don't think that the coaching staff has a ton of time to sit around and watch every snap from these three teams and decide that these guys are still good or not. None of them really broke the bank in terms of salary cap or crippled our flexibility on the roster.

Joe's pointed out that the people in charge of evaluating league free agents have been removed and replaced. I think the failure of these deals and the inability for immediate contribution by guys like Stewart Bradley did inspire action.

:thumbup:

On a roll today! Good stuff bro!
 

blindseyed

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Thats easy to say when he works under Pats management and has been "stuck" with Tom Brady for more than a decade!

Where were hsi great QB's while coaching the Browns??

It is easy to say when he's been winning in NE. (And I can't stand him). He doesn't put himself in these positions is the point. He won while "stuck" with Cassell too, I doubt any coach could win with this line-up, the point is Whiz made this team what it is, he owns it now.

Cleveland was almost 20 years ago and it appears he learned a few things.
 
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