Why you fire Kingsbury now

[BritCard]

Really? You don’t think a game plan to maybe run Conner before midway thru the second half may have helped? Maybe some short quick passes or screens, you know all the stuff he did when we were down 4tds and worked and moved the ball? No KK starts out with ridiculous sideways garbage and long developing plays since our Oline is garbage against a good Dline? Yeah sure it’s all K1 lol wow…

But that wasn't the game plan. Doesn't matter what plan you have when your QB can't execute it.

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[BritCard]

Except he was Kingsbury’s dream QB. A head coach needs to be a better judge of talent or be better at developing it.

Yes, but Keim has said many times Kliff never pushed for Kyler. That he watched him and fell in love. He didn't want to etc etc

Kliff's biggest weakness is that he isn't tough enough. He let's Kyler get away with too much. Other players too no doubt.

Yes, there will be players like Watt, Budda, CJ etc who are good pro's and appreciate being treated like grown ups. Everyone should be given that opportunity. But there will always be those that abuse that privilege and I need to see Kliff come down on them like a tonne of bricks. I'm not sure he has it in him.

The whole coach bro stuff his fine up to a point. Too many are going past that point and not being reigned back in.

 

[TJ]

100% agree with @Harry. Kliff fails at some of the most fundamental aspects of coaching. It’s fine not to be perfect, but he’s deficient in far too many categories, namely leadership, skill development, clock management, etc. I know we’ve improved steadily each season, but we’ve also seen from Kliff that closing seasons has been dreadful. Ask Josh McDaniels how awesome it is to start fast and then crap the bed.

A change is predicated on the presumption of future success. Much like Keim has demonstrated that he sucks at drafting, Kliff has demonstrated that he sucks at closing seasons. I’d rather not waste Kyler’s raw talent, because it’s garbage like this that could drive him back to the Oakland A’s.

 

[TJ]

But that wasn't the game plan. Doesn't matter what plan you have when your QB can't execute it.

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Whose job is it to develop Murray? Kliff was brought in to develop Rosen and then pivoted to Murray to expedite the process of getting a QBoF.

 

[QuebecCard]

100% agree with @Harry. Kliff fails at some of the most fundamental aspects of coaching. It’s fine not to be perfect, but he’s deficient in far too many categories, namely leadership, skill development, clock management, etc. I know we’ve improved steadily each season, but we’ve also seen from Kliff that closing seasons has been dreadful. Ask Josh McDaniels how awesome it is to start fast and then crap the bed.

A change is predicated on the presumption of future success. Much like Keim has demonstrated that he sucks at drafting, Kliff has demonstrated that he sucks at closing seasons. I’d rather not waste Kyler’s raw talent, because it’s garbage like this that could drive him back to the Oakland A’s.

Yeah, I'm sure riding a bus in A-ball, then AA, then AAA is part of KM's plan for the future.

 

[BritCard]

Whose job is it to develop Murray? Kliff was brought in to develop Rosen and then pivoted to Murray to expedite the process of getting a QBoF.

The same Murray that was MVP through the first 7 weeks? That Murray? Did Kliff suddenly make him worse?

If the QB himself won't put the required work in what can the coach do in the roughly 20 hours a week he has to coach him? He was in his 3rd year, there's only so far Kliff can take him. The mental side, the understanding defenses, reading blitzes, knowing here to go with the ball pre snap, adjusting play calls etc are things Kyler has to work on himself.

I don't know what happened to Kyler in the 3 weeks he was off, but it sure didn't look like he did much work when he came back playing like crap.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

100% agree with @Harry. Kliff fails at some of the most fundamental aspects of coaching. It’s fine not to be perfect, but he’s deficient in far too many categories, namely leadership, skill development, clock management, etc. I know we’ve improved steadily each season, but we’ve also seen from Kliff that closing seasons has been dreadful. Ask Josh McDaniels how awesome it is to start fast and then crap the bed.

A change is predicated on the presumption of future success. Much like Keim has demonstrated that he sucks at drafting, Kliff has demonstrated that he sucks at closing seasons. I’d rather not waste Kyler’s raw talent, because it’s garbage like this that could drive him back to the Oakland A’s.

Kyler going back to baseball isn't going to happen. I'd bet the farm.

 

[Stout]

The same Murray that was MVP through the first 7 weeks? That Murray? Did Kliff suddenly make him worse?

If the QB himself won't put the required work in what can the coach do in the roughly 20 hours a week he has to coach him? He was in his 3rd year, there's only so far Kliff can take him. The mental side, the understanding defenses, reading blitzes, knowing here to go with the ball pre snap, adjusting play calls etc are things Kyler has to work on himself.

I don't know what happened to Kyler in the 3 weeks he was off, but it sure didn't look like he did much work when he came back playing like crap.

The QB that had everything going right around him? Clearly he couldn't hack it when he had to bear more responsibility for carrying the team.

 

[TJ]

Kyler going back to baseball isn't going to happen. I'd bet the farm.

I wouldn’t put money on him leaving football and then going to baseball, but he’s intimated that he’d like to play at some point. The door is open for him and that’s enough to at least consider that as a potential avenue for him if things go haywire in the NFL

 

[wit3card]

I don't see it. You keep the group one more year, and than can them if they don't perform. Than the next HC or even GM can decide on Murray. If you draft high, you might go with a new QB, since KM at that point has shown us who he is, maybe you get even something out of him.

But overall, the NFL game is a game of chess more than not, but if don't watch tape and the tendecies, analyse your game learn to read D pre and post snap, you never will get to the SB and even less win one. So basically next year we have to decide, but this season, now clearly doesn't feel good. Because Lindley was the 3rd backup, Kyler Murray was the starter...

 

[PDXChris]

I'm willing to give him one more year if there are changes. Vance and Billy Davis have to go. Keim needs to go and there needs to be a legit OC brought in or promoted to challenge KK on GameDay.

Garcia and Pugh need to he upgraded. We can also move on from Humpries with minimal damage. I'm ok with Beachum sticking around.

We need a CB and DT in the draft, like bad!

 

[BritCard]

The QB that had everything going right around him? Clearly he couldn't hack it when he had to bear more responsibility for carrying the team.

Well exactly. That's on Kyler.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I would fire Kingsbury because he has an addiction to stupidity. Look, one does not go on the road and win 8 games by not being prepared, by not making competent gameplans, but Kliff eventually can't prevent from getting out of his own way and the same for Vance Joseph. A friend of mine who is a Cowboy fan said the Ram game did not make any sense, compared to how the Cardinals played the Cowboys by scheme alone... he said Kingsbury looked like he had no idea what was going on and the players looked like they had no idea what to do as an extension of him because their coaching staff had no clue or objective which made any sense

 

[don7031]

The Cardinals have Kyler for two more years on his rookie contract (if they exercise fifth year option). After that he'll have a mega contract that will restrict the Cardinals ability to sign free agents. That will cripple the team going forward as they can't build through the draft.

The time to change coaches is now. One year for acclimatization and all in for the following year.

But they are going to stick with Kingsbury.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I would fire Kingsbury because he has an addiction to stupidity. Look, one does not go on the road and win 8 games by not being prepared, by not making competent gameplans, but Kliff eventually can't prevent from getting out of his own way and the same for Vance Joseph. A friend of mine who is a Cowboy fan said the Ram game did not make any sense, compared to how the Cardinals played the Cowboys by scheme alone... he said Kingsbury looked like he had no idea what was going on and the players looked like they had no idea what to do as an extension of him because their coaching staff had no clue or objective which made any sense

I don't think KK does any sort of defensive game planning. I think it is completely done by Vance. Can anyone refute that or know the truth?

 

[Jetstream Green]

I don't think KK does any sort of defensive game planning. I think it is completely done by Vance. Can anyone refute that or know the truth?

I meant our offense and Vance's defense as a whole, the whole coaching staff. It's as if they are either brilliant or complete idiots approaching a game and though Kyler has played poorly of recent, I'm thinking now a majority of this is on this coaching staff. Case in point, McCoy and the Cardinals getting the crap beat out of them by Carolina but are able to win the other two with the backup QB... that says something

 

[az jam]

Good stuff Harry, I totally agree with you and I suggested that we get Bowles to be our HC long ago. My real question is where the heck is Michael Bidwill on all of this? He can't be happy with a coach that can't win at home and cost us a home playoff game. I have season tickets in the Club Section and it is less than half full. Will MB really go with this crap for another year??

 

[Jetstream Green]

Good stuff Harry, I totally agree with you and I suggested that we get Bowles to be our HC long ago. My real question is where the heck is Michael Bidwill on all of this? He can't be happy with a coach that can't win at home and cost us a home playoff game. I have season tickets in the Club Section and it is less than half full. Will MB really go with this crap for another year??

No to Bowles, come on, learn from the rest of the NFL past, great DC but bad head coach and especially for this situation in Arizona with a young QB I sure do not want to give up on

 

[nashman]

But that wasn't the game plan. Doesn't matter what plan you have when your QB can't execute it.

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He can’t hand the ball off? ******** your spouting nonsense! Look Kyler played like crap but the game plan was ****** from the start, we did NOT even try to establish the run! When your midway thru the 2nd qtr before you attempt a running play with your STARTING RB you are not trying to run the ball! It makes KK even more negligent if they know that’s the winning formula but we totally ignore it and throw sideways passes or screens to back up TEs instead of trying to establish the run!

 

[Syracusecards]

Ready your arguments. This would be the worst time to change head coaches. About 25% of the league is already looking to do so. That said I can’t imagine anyone watching last night’s game and concluding this was a well coached team.

I won’t belabor the point about wins and I know it sounds crazy to say it, but that’s not the only way to evaluate coaching. Here’s why you change, IMO.

1. This coach does not construct effective game plans consistently. He did have a good plan against the Bears and ironically in 2 of the 3 games McCoy started. In too many other games, including the playoff game, he came up empty.
2. Despite supposedly being an offensive guru, he has issues evaluating and developing QBs. He picked Murray who seems to lack leadership skills and poise. Murray has numerous technical deficiencies, which Kingsbury has only slightly improved. Murray’s comments on film study would seem to indicate either Kingsbury has no clue on development or Murray can do as he chooses. None of this means Murray can‘t be salvaged.
3. Murray seems reluctant to run. I assume for fear of injury. This is Murray’s most reliable weapon. You have to use it. Kingsbury should call it more often. Force the issue.
4. Murray kills too many drives by taking sacks. He simply holds the ball too long. In his third year he should have been coached out of this.
5. Kingsbury has no clue on defense. If something needs to be adjusted on defense mid-game, Kingsbury has no credibility. This also means no one is holding the DC accountable.
6. Common occurring situations, like a 2 minute drill, are undertaken. It’s like Kingsbury had not planned to deal with such situations. He has little sense of clock management or time out usage.
7. The play calling is not adapted to the game situation. In the playoff game, for example, instead of letting Murray settle in with some simple throws Kingsbury once again threw a pass attempt far longer than needed for the first down. Kingsbury has done this too often throughout the season.
8. Kingsbury takes needless gambles. I’m not opposed to going on fourth down as the stats support it, but not early in your own end of the field. He eschews taking a sure 3 points trying for a risky TD. He went for 2 point conversion way too early. He’s overly aggressive at the wrong times.
9. Penalties have been allowed to kill too many drives. This is symptomatic of a lack of team discipline. There appears to be no consequences.
10. Another obvious issue is having the team ready to play. Too often the Cards have appeared flat early in games. This is especially concerning in games that are important. It also seems the Cards play down to weaker opponents. They behave as if they just have to show up.
11. He insists on being his own OC, which means only one POV is considered. I’m skeptical that even if you forced an OC on him that Kingsbury would let that coach do his job. I’m also not sure he’d allow a power QB coach.

I could keep going but what’s the point. This is more than enough to merit a change. Can anyone seriously believe most of these will be rectified? Whenever I post one of these everyone one asks, “Who would you hire?” Simple, I’d hire Todd Bowles. I’d also get a solid OC, who’d call plays and a QB coach. Bidwill should have a sit down with Murray. Murray would either get religion or be traded. I hate the idea of losing a player with Murray’s athletic ability, but he has to be willing to address his shortcomings and understand he’s not a star yet. In fact he never will be a star unless he improves. He’ll end up as one of those guys who you always ask, “why hasn’t that guy won it all? He has the tools.” It would be a setback to replace him, but there is talent available and this will be an attractive team to lead with the right personnel moves.

This late season collapse is sadly typical of Kingsbury’s career. I’m not convinced he’s willing to change his style enough to avoid that fate in the future. He didn’t do it in college and his career seemed on a downward trajectory when the Cards grabbed him. One of the board counterpoints I heard often was, “I’m just happy making the playoffs.” Well if you’re in that group, congratulations! You got your participation trophy. For me, if I were Bidwill, I’d be embarrassed by this game. I predict next year’s team will not make the playoffs unless there is a coaching change.

BTW, I’d previously written Kingsbury would be back. I still think he will but now it’s 75% yes, 25% no.

Call me crazy, but I feel like if Keim said “we are getting a new Head Coach but want to keep you on as Offensive Coordinator” Kliff would exhale and say “Thank you!”. He just doesn’t seem comfortable or fit to lead a team. Probably why he and Kyler are so simpatico.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Kyler going back to baseball isn't going to happen. I'd bet the farm.

If he can't compete for a full 17 game NFL schedule, how would he do in 162 MLB games?

 

[schutd]

I'm willing to give him one more year if there are changes. Vance and Billy Davis have to go. Keim needs to go and there needs to be a legit OC brought in or promoted to challenge KK on GameDay.

Garcia and Pugh need to he upgraded. We can also move on from Humpries with minimal damage. I'm ok with Beachum sticking around.

We need a CB and DT in the draft, like bad!

How do you replace three OL starters in one off season??? Especially when you have a talent deficient receiver room, will need to pay your current or find a new EDGE guy, have a DL full of journeymen... even if you can find them, they wont be a cohesive unit in time to save KK and KMs jobs...

 

[DaHilg]

How do you replace three OL starters in one off season??? Especially when you have a talent deficient receiver room, will need to pay your current or find a new EDGE guy, have a DL full of journeymen... even if you can find them, they wont be a cohesive unit in time to save KK and KMs jobs...

Wrong.. Kansas City has all 5 new starters on the Oline this year. Including 2 rookies.

 

[DaHilg]

Not to mention.. the word cohesive and our Offensive line doesnt exist. Again, cut pugh, hump and hicks..we would have $50mm in cap this year.

 

[THESMEL]

He can’t hand the ball off? ******** your spouting nonsense! Look Kyler played like crap but the game plan was ****** from the start, we did NOT even try to establish the run! When your midway thru the 2nd qtr before you attempt a running play with your STARTING RB you are not trying to run the ball! It makes KK even more negligent if they know that’s the winning formula but we totally ignore it and throw sideways passes or screens to back up TEs instead of trying to establish the run!

Our starting running back Edmonds got hurled back into our backfield in the only carry of the first 1/4! Just the fact that Conner is not the starter and made the pro bowl should get Kingsbury fired. Keim too For not dropping thors hammer on Kingsbury in private supervision.
16 running back carries to 32 passes doesn’t look as bad on the final stats, now does it! But we never established the run early all year. Feast or famine! with a pro bowl back up rub! I got the words, but ain’t allowed to say them.

against maybe the 2 best pass rushers in history, then the post game pressers, don’t know why we didn’t compete, have to look at the tape! Yea go look at it elsewhere, in another state, watch all you want, pee wee coaches know exactly why you didn’t compete.