Why you fire Kingsbury now

[Krangodnzr]

You win 11 games but still aren't good enough by:
Not having enough talent, especially in depth, but some stellar players at key positions

I think there are some depth issues, sure, and that can be placed on Keim having to always make up for mistakes.

A terrible GM that hasn't delivered enough in the 1st one

Agree there...but he is a mixed bag who has been pretty decent at finding fliers on discarded veterans.

Inconsistent play calling that can be great but is often poorly coordinated

And they won 11 games with it. I would disagree. I would say it was more often very well coordinated....and in games like the Colts game it's hard to tell when your QB plays like Murray did.

Inconsistent game planning with seemingly none in some games but good plans in others

Seemingly none? That's ridiculous. I saw a team that just played like crap and it's hard for a game plan to show through when players play like dogshit.

DEFINITELY terrible game management

I agree, especially two minute drill. But even then the Cardinals still had chances to win in those situations.

Bend but don't break defensive scheme that is so inflexible Stout could do yoga better than it

I think that Vance's defense worked most of the time, but he seems to be inflexible during some games. I'd move on from Vance personally.

Refer to the last one on defensive play calling

Agree on Vance.

When the offense was clicking, bend but don't break worked. It doesn't work when it needs to pick up the offense's slack.

I'm completely with you on Vance.

Make KK an offensive coordinator that has to answer to and gameplan with a head coach, and he might excel. He simply isn't a head coach.

We've seen Kingsbury grow. We've heard how many players have come out and said they believe in him. You don't see that with the Wilks' of the world. I think Kingsbury has dealt with a GM who makes poor picks with premium draft picks. He's dealt with a QB who is 1. behind the learning curve 2. a little bit arrogant 3. doesn't prepare up to NFL standard.

If I were Michael, I'd fire Keim. I'd do an eternal review of whether I thought either Harris or Wilson were capable, and if not, I'd bring in a fresh GM. I'd fire Vance Joseph and bring in Wink Martindale and a whole new defensive staff. And I'd bring in an offensive coordinator to assist Kingsbury. I don't think NO moves should be made, but I'm realistic that not ALL of what are fans are saying can be true at the same time.

I do know that Keim has had long enough. We've seen him given numerous chances and he hasn't really changed.

 

[TJ]

Burrow
Allen
Mahomes

If you as a Cards fan aren’t pissed that Murray isn’t in this class of young QBs, then you don’t have a pulse

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Burrow
Allen
Mahomes

If you as a Cards fan aren’t pissed that Murray isn’t in this class of young QBs, then you don’t have a pulse

Add Herbert as well

 

[pemory09]

Add Herbert as well

And Murray! Errr, never mind.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

lol.

Jesus.

Hopefully Byron is our football Jesus. We gotta hope for something, right? At this point why not an act of god miracle?

 

[GatorAZ]

lol.

Jesus.

Leftwich getting hype on this board we’ve reached peak nuttiness.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think there are some depth issues, sure, and that can be placed on Keim having to always make up for mistakes.

Agree there...but he is a mixed bag who has been pretty decent at finding fliers on discarded veterans.

And they won 11 games with it. I would disagree. I would say it was more often very well coordinated....and in games like the Colts game it's hard to tell when your QB plays like Murray did.

Seemingly none? That's ridiculous. I saw a team that just played like crap and it's hard for a game plan to show through when players play like dogshit.

I agree, especially two minute drill. But even then the Cardinals still had chances to win in those situations.

I think that Vance's defense worked most of the time, but he seems to be inflexible during some games. I'd move on from Vance personally.

Agree on Vance.

I'm completely with you on Vance.

We've seen Kingsbury grow. We've heard how many players have come out and said they believe in him. You don't see that with the Wilks' of the world. I think Kingsbury has dealt with a GM who makes poor picks with premium draft picks. He's dealt with a QB who is 1. behind the learning curve 2. a little bit arrogant 3. doesn't prepare up to NFL standard.

If I were Michael, I'd fire Keim. I'd do an eternal review of whether I thought either Harris or Wilson were capable, and if not, I'd bring in a fresh GM. I'd fire Vance Joseph and bring in Wink Martindale and a whole new defensive staff. And I'd bring in an offensive coordinator to assist Kingsbury. I don't think NO moves should be made, but I'm realistic that not ALL of what are fans are saying can be true at the same time.

I do know that Keim has had long enough. We've seen him given numerous chances and he hasn't really changed.

I just don’t get the hiring a keim replacement from within unless there’s evidence of scenarios where he would’ve gone a different way with keims decisions and they would’ve been winners. Otherwise you’re just getting a more junior guy whose sole influence has been the dude you deemed a failure and fired. Identify stars from successful front offices. Change the culture.

 

[Arz101]

Michael Bidwill is the new Jerry Jones. We gotta make peace with it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You’re right. But when you do an el foldo something went awry.

Injuries to key positions and a QB who's play went down dramatically basically explains it all.

The issue is, none of us really know the primary culprit. Some think it’s all kliff. Some think it’s all kyler. Some want vance’s head. Personally I think we have a bad mix. I think kliff and Kyler both have shortcomings as leaders which makes them a bad pairing.

See this is what I'm seeing here on the board: We have what we have actually observed. We have the objective data. We know Murray fell off a cliff two years in a row. We can debate why, but we do know that he specifically states that he doesn't think he needs to kill himself watching film like other QBs. That tells us that he doesn't probably prepare enough.

How do you reach someone like that? Maybe Kliff isn't the guy, but I think at this juncture, the team would try to rehab Murray before Kliff. It's a damn shame in my eyes, but it's easier to find a coach than a good QB.

I also think they are a bad pairing for each other, as stated before in the board. I think kliff needs a QB who is more self-motivated and and a grinder. I think kyler needs a coach that’s going to hold him accountable and not be totally bro’ed out. I think Keim’s draft record speaks for itself and his free agent record this past offseason was spotty at best. And I think in spite of his record this year I’m not impressed with vance’s defensive calls/scheme.

To win 11 games means something is working, but th way that it unraveled means that something isn't working.

I think the failure is a result of both talent and coaching deficiencies. The fact that it’s happened in 13 straight seasons to kliff is, to me, deafening.

The Kliff thing is pretty easily explained by normal CFB schedules: you play your conference games later. And teams with less talent, means less depth...which means you tend to be worse later in the year.

It's a weak argument to conflate his college record, especially when he now has an NFL sample.

I think the late season swoon is caused mostly by Kyler Murray. He played like crap down the stretch.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I just don’t get the hiring a keim replacement from within unless there’s evidence of scenarios where he would’ve gone a different way with keims decisions and they would’ve been winners. Otherwise you’re just getting a more junior guy whose sole influence has been the dude you deemed a failure and fired. Identify stars from successful front offices. Change the culture.

I'm only saying that you consider those two.

Keims has been different than Graves.

 

[dscher]

lol.

Jesus.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Injuries to key positions and a QB who's play went down dramatically basically explains it all.

See this is what I'm seeing here on the board: We have what we have actually observed. We have the objective data. We know Murray fell off a cliff two years in a row. We can debate why, but we do know that he specifically states that he doesn't think he needs to kill himself watching film like other QBs. That tells us that he doesn't probably prepare enough.

How do you reach someone like that? Maybe Kliff isn't the guy, but I think at this juncture, the team would try to rehab Murray before Kliff. It's a damn shame in my eyes, but it's easier to find a coach than a good QB.

To win 11 games means something is working, but th way that it unraveled means that something isn't working.

The Kliff thing is pretty easily explained by normal CFB schedules: you play your conference games later. And teams with less talent, means less depth...which means you tend to be worse later in the year.

It's a weak argument to conflate his college record, especially when he now has an NFL sample.

I think the late season swoon is caused mostly by Kyler Murray. He played like crap down the stretch.

Man you just sweep over 13 years of the same thing with kliff easily. Yes, in college the conference games are later. In other words, the games that matter. And he comes up short in those games like he does in playoff clinching games and playoff games in the pros. PATTERN.

You would think that kliff has done something miraculous to earn such a pass from a cardinals fan such as yourself. But he hasn’t done that either. Now has he? He’s improved the beginning season record of the team each year, and that’s a feat, even as he remains awfully consistent with his backseason slides, which have remained incredibly consistent. But that’s not a miracle. Particularly as his QB has gained more experience and he’s gotten more talent on the team, even if it’s just moving talent level from his awful to mediocre or slightly above average at certain positions. But miraculous enough to get a pass on his signature slide? Nothing of the sort.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm only saying that you consider those two.

Keims has been different than Graves.

Just seems like each such moves is a risk for minimal gain (keim was better than graves, but still no great shakes) rather than a legitimate swing for the fence.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Man you just sweep over 13 years of the same thing with kliff easily. Yes, in college the conference games are later. In other words, the games that matter. And he comes up short in those games like he does in playoff clinching games and playoff games in the pros. PATTERN.

You would think that kliff has done something miraculous to earn such a pass from a cardinals fan such as yourself. But he hasn’t done that either. Now has he? He’s improved the beginning season record of the team each year, and that’s a feat, even as he remains awfully consistent with his backseason slides, which have remained incredibly consistent. But that’s not a miracle. Particularly as his QB has gained more experience and he’s gotten more talent on the team, even if it’s just moving talent level from his awful to mediocre or slightly above average at certain positions. But miraculous enough to get a pass on his signature slide? Nothing of the sort.

It really is unbelievable that the guy who had a losing record in college with freaking Patrick Mahomes somehow gets a pass at the NFL level.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Man you just sweep over 13 years of the same thing with kliff easily. Yes, in college the conference games are later. In other words, the games that matter. And he comes up short in those games like he does in playoff clinching games and playoff games in the pros. PATTERN.

You would think that kliff has done something miraculous to earn such a pass from a cardinals fan such as yourself. But he hasn’t done that either. Now has he? He’s improved the beginning season record of the team each year, and that’s a feat, even as he remains awfully consistent with his backseason slides, which have remained incredibly consistent. But that’s not a miracle. Particularly as his QB has gained more experience and he’s gotten more talent on the team, even if it’s just moving talent level from his awful to mediocre or slightly above average at certain positions. But miraculous enough to get a pass on his signature slide? Nothing of the sort.

Not 13 years. A simple Wikipedia search would tell you that.

 

[K1Day1]

Didn't want to go on a rant here but, This is ridiculous, so the Cardinals fire Kingsbury, now who do they hire??? Nothing personal but, the Cards have been down the road of hiring the next guy that everyone thinks should be the next great head coach. The Cardinals have hired nfl offense coordinators, defensive coordinators, ex head coaches ect..
Where exactly has that led this franchise??? Almost 40 years in Arizona and 1 superbowl appearance that's where. I understand that alot of people listen to the talking heads however, If I'm not mistaken, this Kingsbury guy is only the 2nd or 3rd coach of the Cards since they moved to Arizona, to actually get 11 wins or more.It's not like this is some long storied franchise that can boast of the many superbowl championships of the past and the great coaches that have led the (Phoenix, Arizona) Cardinals.
This Kingsbury guy seems to at the very least earned another year. Forget all the national media. If the Cardinals do fire Kliff Kingsbury, I for one would be okay if the next coach only has pop warner coaching experience if he can at least get the Cards to the playoffs... To he** with the media who only wants views and something to talk about and to he** with anyone who thinks the Cardinals need to return to in the box thinking. Obviously that hasn't worked out to well.
JUST SO I GET THIS CLEAR THOUGH.
The head coach who led the Cardinals to their first 7-0 start since what ? (1947) should be fired after his 3rd year because his last 2 seasons haven't ended well and the media has put in people's heads that this is some kind of real thing.... OKAY ! ! ! smh

 

[TheCardFan]

Like it or not, KK took the worst team in the NFL, a rookie QB, and maybe average overall roster talent to a .500 record and the playoffs in the NFL (3 years).

He is 24-24. Are we finally going to drop the whole he doesn't have a winning record as HC in college when he has a winning record in the NFL in 2022?

 

[TheCardFan]

It really is unbelievable that the guy who had a losing record in college with freaking Patrick Mahomes somehow gets a pass at the NFL level.

Serious question. If Mahomes was on our team the last 3 years, how many more games would we have won?

 

[ReasonableMan]

Like it or not, KK took the worst team in the NFL, a rookie QB, and maybe average overall roster talent to a .500 record and the playoffs in the NFL (3 years).

He is 24-24. Are we finally going to drop the whole he doesn't have a winning record as HC in college when he has a winning record in the NFL in 2022?

Technically he doesn’t

 

[Stout]

Serious question. If Mahomes was on our team the last 3 years, how many more games would we have won?

Probably 5 or 6. He has shown the ability to be clutch in clutch games; KM has shown absolutely none of that ability. Considering we had something like 8 clinch/playoff games, and that Mahomes is inarguably a better QB, 5 or 6 is a reasonable if modest estimate.

 

[THESMEL]

Didn't want to go on a rant here but, This is ridiculous, so the Cardinals fire Kingsbury, now who do they hire??? Nothing personal but, the Cards have been down the road of hiring the next guy that everyone thinks should be the next great head coach. The Cardinals have hired nfl offense coordinators, defensive coordinators, ex head coaches ect..
Where exactly has that led this franchise??? Almost 40 years in Arizona and 1 superbowl appearance that's where. I understand that alot of people listen to the talking heads however, If I'm not mistaken, this Kingsbury guy is only the 2nd or 3rd coach of the Cards since they moved to Arizona, to actually get 11 wins or more.It's not like this is some long storied franchise that can boast of the many superbowl championships of the past and the great coaches that have led the (Phoenix, Arizona) Cardinals.
This Kingsbury guy seems to at the very least earned another year. Forget all the national media. If the Cardinals do fire Kliff Kingsbury, I for one would be okay if the next coach only has pop warner coaching experience if he can at least get the Cards to the playoffs... To he** with the media who only wants views and something to talk about and to he** with anyone who thinks the Cardinals need to return to in the box thinking. Obviously that hasn't worked out to well.
JUST SO I GET THIS CLEAR THOUGH.
The head coach who led the Cardinals to their first 7-0 start since what ? (1947) should be fired after his 3rd year because his last 2 seasons haven't ended well and the media has put in people's heads that this is some kind of real thing.... OKAY ! ! ! smh

Ken Norton JR. Is solid NFL football fundamentalist with solid football philosophy. He did well with the talent he had. But I sometimes wonder what would have been like if Todd Bowles took over as BA recommended when he retired from Cards? Basically keeping the systems in tact ?

 

[TheCardFan]

Probably 5 or 6. He has shown the ability to be clutch in clutch games; KM has shown absolutely none of that ability. Considering we had something like 8 clinch/playoff games, and that Mahomes is inarguably a better QB, 5 or 6 is a reasonable if modest estimate.

5 or 6 over the last 3 years (~2 more wins per year)?

If we had Mahomes this year vs Murray - how far would we have made it in the playoffs?

Again - these are serious questions (totally speculative I know). Just curious about peoples opinions.

 

[Stout]

5 or 6 over the last 3 years (~2 more wins per year)?

If we had Mahomes this year vs Murray - how far would we have made it in the playoffs?

Again - these are serious questions (totally speculative I know). Just curious about peoples opinions.

No, over the last 2. Let's say 6, which is 3 per year. That is significant.

It's impossible to say how far into the playoffs we would have made it because we would have been seeded differently and against a different team. It's a would've, could've scenario, but he could have taken us to a SB. I would have at least expected 1 win.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not 13 years. A simple Wikipedia search would tell you that.

NINE. HUGE difference. Not so much. Nine years is MORE than enough to say, “hmm, something just keeps repeating and there’s literally only ONE constant.”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Didn't want to go on a rant here but, This is ridiculous, so the Cardinals fire Kingsbury, now who do they hire??? Nothing personal but, the Cards have been down the road of hiring the next guy that everyone thinks should be the next great head coach. The Cardinals have hired nfl offense coordinators, defensive coordinators, ex head coaches ect..
Where exactly has that led this franchise??? Almost 40 years in Arizona and 1 superbowl appearance that's where. I understand that alot of people listen to the talking heads however, If I'm not mistaken, this Kingsbury guy is only the 2nd or 3rd coach of the Cards since they moved to Arizona, to actually get 11 wins or more.It's not like this is some long storied franchise that can boast of the many superbowl championships of the past and the great coaches that have led the (Phoenix, Arizona) Cardinals.
This Kingsbury guy seems to at the very least earned another year. Forget all the national media. If the Cardinals do fire Kliff Kingsbury, I for one would be okay if the next coach only has pop warner coaching experience if he can at least get the Cards to the playoffs... To he** with the media who only wants views and something to talk about and to he** with anyone who thinks the Cardinals need to return to in the box thinking. Obviously that hasn't worked out to well.
JUST SO I GET THIS CLEAR THOUGH.
The head coach who led the Cardinals to their first 7-0 start since what ? (1947) should be fired after his 3rd year because his last 2 seasons haven't ended well and the media has put in people's heads that this is some kind of real thing.... OKAY ! ! ! smh

Well, to be accurate his last NINE seasons haven’t ended well. But let’s just ignore it and pretend the season only goes to 7 games.