Wk 19 Arizona Cardinals off season thread. 05/15/23-05/21/23

[Stout]

I'm saying with the totality of the circumstances, not just Tune playing well. If you have Time coming off a strong rookie year AND Murray who has a chance to bounce back, combined with the cap issues of moving on from Murray, it would be imprudent to draft a QB high.

I can also envision a scenario where that happens and then, after 2024, we're all moaning about why we passed on a top QB because KM never made the changes he needed to make and Tune was a flash in the pan. Easily.

 

[Yuma]

I want to see Tune make the field. Let's see what this kid can do.

 

[TRW]

If Tune starts in 2023 I bet many will tune out by about week 3.

This is the Way.

 

[Yuma]

If Tune starts in 2023 I bet many will tune out by about week 3.

This is the Way.

I know. I have ben banging the drum on this. There's more to watch than just wins and losses. Tune's QB development is one, possibly. Coaching, GM moves, other players development, etc. This year is all about coaches and players developing.

 

[Krangodnzr]

But removing the one year that you don't like is not "cherry-picking the data? C'mon, man.

It's reality-based to not get excited over a guy who has notched 25.2 yards per game his entire career, and less than 40 yards per game in the seasons when he was a regular starter in Indianapolis.

I wouldn't say anyone is excited, would you? Let's not build an argument based on something that doesn't exist.

If you look at his career, which year is an outlier?

The best-case scenario for Pascal is the A.J. Green we've had the past two years.

Which is ok. He fills a role of big, fourth receiver good enough.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I can also envision a scenario where that happens and then, after 2024, we're all moaning about why we passed on a top QB because KM never made the changes he needed to make and Tune was a flash in the pan. Easily.

The good thing is...there are other drafts! The 2024 draft isn't the last draft to get a QB, and as much as I like Maye and Williams, neither of them are the best QB prospect I've ever seen. That would be Andrew Luck.

Murray has played well at times so we know what his basic floor is. Build a real good team and he can be successful.

 

[Stout]

The good thing is...there are other drafts! The 2024 draft isn't the last draft to get a QB, and as much as I like Maye and Williams, neither of them are the best QB prospect I've ever seen. That would be Andrew Luck.

Murray has played well at times so we know what his basic floor is. Build a real good team and he can be successful.

You hope you don't end up at the top of the draft again, though. I think we can agree that if Tune starts and does well and KM at least doesn't rule himself out as QBOF, it's a good problem to have.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I know. I have ben banging the drum on this. There's more to watch than just wins and losses. Tune's QB development is one, possibly. Coaching, GM moves, other players development, etc. This year is all about coaches and players developing.

I agree

But the question remains did they do enough to bring young talent that is quality?

In many posters minds thry could have done much more in FA

 

[Stout]

I agree

But the question remains did they do enough to bring young talent that is quality?

In many posters minds thry could have done much more in FA

Oh my god yes, they absolutely could have, and without the "it would cripple the team" or be "same old Keim stuff" false narrative.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You hope you don't end up at the top of the draft again, though. I think we can agree that if Tune starts and does well and KM at least doesn't rule himself out as QBOF, it's a good problem to have.

There is also the scenario where neither is good enough, but the Cardinals have a team good enough to move up and take a guy. One thing I think we've seen with the Cardinals is that as an organization they now understand how important QB is. No more passing on Aaron Rodgers because they have Josh McCown.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

No more passing on Aaron Rodgers because they have Josh McCown.

100% this

This applies to KM in the McCown role also if he's not showing adjustments

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Better odds than winning the lottery.

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[Ronin]

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[RON_IN_OC]

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He really does play lots of positions.

 

[Stout]

There is also the scenario where neither is good enough, but the Cardinals have a team good enough to move up and take a guy. One thing I think we've seen with the Cardinals is that as an organization they now understand how important QB is. No more passing on Aaron Rodgers because they have Josh McCown.

Exactamundo

 

[oaken1]

Oh my god yes, they absolutely could have, and without the "it would cripple the team" or be "same old Keim stuff" false narrative.

Who?
I wanted Allen Lazard... who do you think would have been a quality addition to the team that also fits our scheme?

 

[Zalixar]

Who?
I wanted Allen Lazard... who do you think would have been a quality addition to the team that also fits our scheme?

If we signed Lazard he would certainly be a football player on our team.

 

[Krangodnzr]

100% this

This applies to KM in the McCown role also if he's not showing adjustments

My caveat is that expectations have to be somewhat muted for Murray.

 

[WisconsinCard]

My point is that he among others constantly pointed out how small the receivers are and we are now seeing a substantial change to the paradigm. I'm not "bashing" him at all.

I know I was agreeing with you. My post was in regards to what you said to K9. And K9 saying that MO was part of the brain trust that traded AJ away.

 

[Yuma]

IDK if big receivers are all that. Chargers always go for big guys, and they haven't been winning Super Bowls either.

 

[Krangodnzr]

IDK if big receivers are all that. Chargers always go for big guys, and they haven't been winning Super Bowls either.

The Patriots won numerous Super Bowls with zero #1 receivers. That doesn't mean that approach is prudent.

 

[CardNots]

The Patriots won numerous Super Bowls with zero #1 receivers. That doesn't mean that approach is prudent.

So we picking up stud TEs?

 

[Stout]

Who?
I wanted Allen Lazard... who do you think would have been a quality addition to the team that also fits our scheme?

No idea. I didn't do any research into it because I had zero faith it was worth it--we weren't spending money. All I know is that there are always players to sign that can help. Some years, if you only have holes at certain positions, you may be screwed in FA. As we had holes pretty much everywhere...

Now cue that "no, you can't possibly ever in a million years do something as rational as that" rants (not directed at you @oaken1)

 

[Krangodnzr]

No idea. I didn't do any research into it because I had zero faith it was worth it--we weren't spending money. All I know is that there are always players to sign that can help. Some years, if you only have holes at certain positions, you may be screwed in FA. As we had holes pretty much everywhere...

Now cue that "no, you can't possibly ever in a million years do something as rational as that" rants (not directed at you @oaken1)

I think you ideally, build through the draft and augment needs through free agency.

Keim was way too dependent on free agency and trades for players not on their rookie contracts.

 

[football karma]

The best-case scenario for Pascal is the A.J. Green we've had the past two years.

id take that, if it didnt come with AJs weird penchant for 1. stepping out of bounds on his routes, 2. holding penalties on WR screens and runs, 3. Offensive PI calls