WK 7-Houston Texans @ Arizona Cardinals Pre Game Thread Oct 18-Oct 24, 2021

RON_IN_OC

https://www.ronevansrealty.com
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Posts
27,139
Reaction score
35,593
Location
BirdGangThing
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

While Im glad his attempts are down his production is pretty bad (for him). So there's still another level this team can go if we get better blocking on some of these Kyler runs and he doesnt run hesitant (some of the sacks could have been avoided as well)

Dont confuse what Im saying. I hope he runs less, but once his few runs become more effective it could get scary.
The threat of KM running is actually better than him running. He's able to buy more time in and out of the pocket, always looking downfield for an open receiver. The game has slowed down so much for him this year and the team is reaping the rewards.
 

SoonerLou

ASFN Addict
Joined
Sep 15, 2019
Posts
8,146
Reaction score
12,248
Location
St Louis, MO
Combination of how they defend him and IMO the long runs Kyler has popped in the past he's throwing the ball instead, or just sliding down. He had a play yesterday where he stepped up started to run then stopped and winged it to Kirk for a first down over the middle. First 2 years he runs that for sure. So the YPC is way down but I think it's largely because he's throwing instead of running on plays he used to get 10 yards running.

Also remember he lost a rushing TD yesterday to a hold, he actually slowed up too fast and had to accelerate to get in but he's still a great runner IMO he just doesn't need to run as much this year.

The threat of KM running is actually better than him running. He's able to buy more time in and out of the pocket, always looking downfield for an open receiver. The game has slowed down so much for him this year and the team is reaping the rewards.
Idk. I think the 49ers/Browns games he combined for 8 yards (I know there were a couple of kneel downs) I think people are overlooking the fact he's leaving big yardage out on the field by spinning outside getting sacked/forced to throw anyway. I get the Kirk play as that was great. However, especially against the 49ers he missed several big running opportunties by not doing what he did last year by stepping up and running.

Thats fine for now. However, I think teams are going to dare him to run the middle/climb the pocket and he's gotta take it. Not that QBR is the end all/be all. But these were two of lowest games of the season. There are certain plays I feel he could still take and get down ala last year. He got hurt in the pocket.
 

QuebecCard

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Posts
5,880
Reaction score
8,309
Location
North of the 49th.
Idk. I think the 49ers/Browns games he combined for 8 yards (I know there were a couple of kneel downs) I think people are overlooking the fact he's leaving big yardage out on the field by spinning outside getting sacked/forced to throw anyway. I get the Kirk play as that was great. However, especially against the 49ers he missed several big running opportunties by not doing what he did last year by stepping up and running.

Thats fine for now. However, I think teams are going to dare him to run the middle/climb the pocket and he's gotta take it. Not that QBR is the end all/be all. But these were two of lowest games of the season. There are certain plays I feel he could still take and get down ala last year. He got hurt in the pocket.

Kyler leaves plays and points off the board every week.

I'm betting there will be a few games this year where he won't and the totals will be monstrous.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
87,635
Reaction score
38,893
Idk. I think the 49ers/Browns games he combined for 8 yards (I know there were a couple of kneel downs) I think people are overlooking the fact he's leaving big yardage out on the field by spinning outside getting sacked/forced to throw anyway. I get the Kirk play as that was great. However, especially against the 49ers he missed several big running opportunties by not doing what he did last year by stepping up and running.

Thats fine for now. However, I think teams are going to dare him to run the middle/climb the pocket and he's gotta take it. Not that QBR is the end all/be all. But these were two of lowest games of the season. There are certain plays I feel he could still take and get down ala last year. He got hurt in the pocket.

Oh yeah he took a couple of sacks that were cringe worthy he's still very much learning. I just mean there's plays now where he gets 15-20 yards passing the ball where last year he got 8-10 yards running it. More yards and no contact on Kyler is a win/win for me even if we lose some explosive runs.

At the end of the day the difference in him and Lamar when they run is Kyler avoids contact and we WANT him to do so, Lamar doesn't . So far it's working for Lamar too he's a great player but he takes more hits.
 

SoonerLou

ASFN Addict
Joined
Sep 15, 2019
Posts
8,146
Reaction score
12,248
Location
St Louis, MO
Oh yeah he took a couple of sacks that were cringe worthy he's still very much learning. I just mean there's plays now where he gets 15-20 yards passing the ball where last year he got 8-10 yards running it. More yards and no contact on Kyler is a win/win for me even if we lose some explosive runs.

At the end of the day the difference in him and Lamar when they run is Kyler avoids contact and we WANT him to do so, Lamar doesn't . So far it's working for Lamar too he's a great player but he takes more hits.
My thing is if he's constantly spinning outside (which he does to give him a more of a throwing lane) he's getting hit anyway. I think as @Ouchie-Z-Clown said in the game thread Kyler needs to take off and run a couple times to help slow down that pass rush.

His throwing has been great, but if he ever finds the balance it could be dangerous. Right now it seems like Josh Allen has that balance imo.

FWIW, I thought the Rams game was a great balance.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
87,635
Reaction score
38,893
My thing is if he's constantly spinning outside (which he does to give him a more of a throwing lane) he's getting hit anyway. I think as @Ouchie-Z-Clown said in the game thread Kyler needs to take off and run a couple times to help slow down that pass rush.

His throwing has been great, but if he ever finds the balance it could be dangerous. Right now it seems like Josh Allen has that balance imo.

FWIW, I thought the Rams game was a great balance.

OK I don't see the spin outs as plays where he could have ran. Some of them yes step up and run I guess but I don't think he was doing that last year either. SO I don't think those hits are extra. he's only slightly ahead of last years pace in sacks, 27 in 16 last year, 12 in 6 this year. The runs are WAY down but look at the passing, almost 2 full yards per attempt more 1.8, yards per game way ahead. For my money we're getting more yards with less hits on him. He's down nearly 3 YPC as a runner from last year, almost 30 yards per game but he's up more than 50 yards per game passing. I think much of that is having better Wr's of course but it's also that he's so much more in control out there.

Honestly if Ertz is healthy it's kind of scary how good this passing game can be.
 

SoonerLou

ASFN Addict
Joined
Sep 15, 2019
Posts
8,146
Reaction score
12,248
Location
St Louis, MO
OK I don't see the spin outs as plays where he could have ran. Some of them yes step up and run I guess but I don't think he was doing that last year either. SO I don't think those hits are extra. he's only slightly ahead of last years pace in sacks, 27 in 16 last year, 12 in 6 this year. The runs are WAY down but look at the passing, almost 2 full yards per attempt more 1.8, yards per game way ahead. For my money we're getting more yards with less hits on him. He's down nearly 3 YPC as a runner from last year, almost 30 yards per game but he's up more than 50 yards per game passing. I think much of that is having better Wr's of course but it's also that he's so much more in control out there.

Honestly if Ertz is healthy it's kind of scary how good this passing game can be.
The spin on Bosa was certainly a play he could have stepped up and picked up yards. The play were Hufnaga(sp) although not a spin was a play he could have split the wide angle and got yards.

Again not end all be all but his PFF grade and QBR (when healthy)were higher last year. And I think part of that is because he's not making teams pay with his legs as much. Again the attempts being down is fine, but some of his runs have just been bad (again not all him as the run blocking hasnt been there either).

I think part of that is Kyler telling Kliff to cut that out of the playbook some. These stalled drives (against physical Cleveland/49ers) could be helped a bit with Kyler more in the run. Either design or sensing pressure quickly and getting out of there.

The obvous great thing is that he's improved as a passer and throwing on the run. Just saying if he can be dynamic with his legs on timely plays he'd be at MVP Mahomes or MVP Lamar level imo. Even Mahomes has 68 yards more rushing that Kyler. Thats just not something you'd expect.

Kyler is awesome, lol. Just noting what might be the thing that elevates him from top 5 play to the top guy play.
 

QuebecCard

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Posts
5,880
Reaction score
8,309
Location
North of the 49th.
The spin on Bosa was certainly a play he could have stepped up and picked up yards. The play were Hufnaga(sp) although not a spin was a play he could have split the wide angle and got yards.

Again not end all be all but his PFF grade and QBR (when healthy)were higher last year. And I think part of that is because he's not making teams pay with his legs as much. Again the attempts being down is fine, but some of his runs have just been bad (again not all him as the run blocking hasnt been there either).

I think part of that is Kyler telling Kliff to cut that out of the playbook some. These stalled drives (against physical Cleveland/49ers) could be helped a bit with Kyler more in the run. Either design or sensing pressure quickly and getting out of there.

The obvous great thing is that he's improved as a passer and throwing on the run. Just saying if he can be dynamic with his legs on timely plays he'd be at MVP Mahomes or MVP Lamar level imo. Even Mahomes has 68 yards more rushing that Kyler. Thats just not something you'd expect.

Kyler is awesome, lol. Just noting what might be the thing that elevates him from top 5 play to the top guy play.

KM is 6-0 using his arm.

He'll incorporate the rest as need be.

This isn't fantasy.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
18,173
Reaction score
16,247
Location
Modesto, California
The spin on Bosa was certainly a play he could have stepped up and picked up yards. The play were Hufnaga(sp) although not a spin was a play he could have split the wide angle and got yards.

Again not end all be all but his PFF grade and QBR (when healthy)were higher last year. And I think part of that is because he's not making teams pay with his legs as much. Again the attempts being down is fine, but some of his runs have just been bad (again not all him as the run blocking hasnt been there either).

I think part of that is Kyler telling Kliff to cut that out of the playbook some. These stalled drives (against physical Cleveland/49ers) could be helped a bit with Kyler more in the run. Either design or sensing pressure quickly and getting out of there.

The obvous great thing is that he's improved as a passer and throwing on the run. Just saying if he can be dynamic with his legs on timely plays he'd be at MVP Mahomes or MVP Lamar level imo. Even Mahomes has 68 yards more rushing that Kyler. Thats just not something you'd expect.

Kyler is awesome, lol. Just noting what might be the thing that elevates him from top 5 play to the top guy play.

do you want 5 year Kyler?

or

do you want 15 year Kyler??

This aint college ball where the starter is going to change in a year or two anyway. This is the NFL and he has to think of the future as well as the game he is in.

Im fine if he never gets more than a 100 yards rushing in a season.... he should be using his legs to get away from pressure so he has time to pass the ball.

obviously if he breaks out of the pocket and had thirty yards of open field in front of him, then yeah....take that and run out of bounds when a defender gets close. But if kliff is smart, he never calls another designed QB run again.

we drafted a franchise QB once.... Timm Rosenbach I think it was...dude was nails, the future looked bright.... but he got hurt in a game... when he healed up he retired from football and decided to become a pro bull rider..... said bull riding was safer than playing QB and he had a family to think about...... then thirty years later we drafted Kyler Murray

I dont want to have to wait another thirty years... I dont want Kyler Murray for a few great years.

I want to be an old man bitching on a message board because at 37 years old Kyler cant escape from the rush as well as he used to and we aint gonna win any more championships if he keeps playing like this.

This aint high school ball....it aint college ball...and it aint Madden....an NFL quarterbacks job is to read the defense and then get the ball to the team mate with the best opportunity to exploit the weakness he sees in that defense.

opportunities present themselves and when they do Kyler can exploit them...hell, I once watched steve bono run like a 75 yard touchdown right up the middle of the field...and he ran a forty in the 6 second range
 

wit3card

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Posts
2,948
Reaction score
1,782
I want good game from all 3 phases , no injuries and growth on all sides.

If we play good, we should be fine.
 

QuebecCard

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Posts
5,880
Reaction score
8,309
Location
North of the 49th.
do you want 5 year Kyler?

or

do you want 15 year Kyler??

This aint college ball where the starter is going to change in a year or two anyway. This is the NFL and he has to think of the future as well as the game he is in.

Im fine if he never gets more than a 100 yards rushing in a season.... he should be using his legs to get away from pressure so he has time to pass the ball.

obviously if he breaks out of the pocket and had thirty yards of open field in front of him, then yeah....take that and run out of bounds when a defender gets close. But if kliff is smart, he never calls another designed QB run again.

we drafted a franchise QB once.... Timm Rosenbach I think it was...dude was nails, the future looked bright.... but he got hurt in a game... when he healed up he retired from football and decided to become a pro bull rider..... said bull riding was safer than playing QB and he had a family to think about...... then thirty years later we drafted Kyler Murray

I dont want to have to wait another thirty years... I dont want Kyler Murray for a few great years.

I want to be an old man bitching on a message board because at 37 years old Kyler cant escape from the rush as well as he used to and we aint gonna win any more championships if he keeps playing like this.

This aint high school ball....it aint college ball...and it aint Madden....an NFL quarterbacks job is to read the defense and then get the ball to the team mate with the best opportunity to exploit the weakness he sees in that defense.

opportunities present themselves and when they do Kyler can exploit them...hell, I once watched steve bono run like a 75 yard touchdown right up the middle of the field...and he ran a forty in the 6 second range

Actually, Timm ended up in the CFL where he was a bust before bull riding, I believe.
 

QuebecCard

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Posts
5,880
Reaction score
8,309
Location
North of the 49th.
Also that's 2 long runs now where he not just got caught but caught much faster than I thought he would. I think the shoulder is bothering him and it probably impacts him when he runs.

A RB getting caught by DBs who more often than not are the fastest on the field isn't that surprising.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
87,635
Reaction score
38,893
A RB getting caught by DBs who more often than not are the fastest on the field isn't that surprising.

No of course not I'm just saying on both of them they caught him faster than i expected. That is I didn't expect him to score on either one but guys made up ground on him faster than I thought they would. The one yesterday he breaks free gets around the safety he's at full speed and Greedy Williams is coming up so he has to turn. He's about 5 yards behind him turning and it's really surprising to me how fast he caught him. I know Greedy ran sub 4.4 at the combine but if you watch the replay it says to me that Chase is not 100%. It was a great check by Kyler, a great cut and move by Chase, just figure if that's game 1 Chase gets more than 40 yards before Greedy catches him
 

Yuma

Suns are my Kryptonite!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
22,679
Reaction score
12,430
Location
Laveen, AZ
Any talk of Hopkins doing an Aaron Rogers type I own you celebration in the end zone?
 
Top