Woj: Suns in a state of disrepair.

[BC867]

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[BC867]

Correction. I did receive a response from the NBA office -- Fan Relations. Lip service.

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[Western Font]

Honestly, id love to blame sarver 100% but i dont think thats the case. He is certainly a lot to blame but to what extent he is involved we may never know. Suns happened to have high picks in bad drafts, and some of the stupid moves and trades have to fall on the GMs too.

The owner is the CEO, especially if they are hands-on, doubly so if there’s no president of basketball operations layer. They bear responsibility for the performance of their subordinates, just as they are handed the trophy by the commissioner of they win the finals. But this doesn’t absolve others of their performance, so you’re right, not 100%.

 

[Folster]

Thank you Woj!!!

http://arizonasports.com/story/1855...eneral-manager/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Cheesebeef]

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god bless JC. Has probably always been my favorite figure in all of sports... maybe tied with Larry.

 

[WildBB]

Correction. I did receive a response from the NBA office -- Fan Relations. Lip service.

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You can see your address here.

 

[taz02]

Party at Barry's...lol.

Did JC write that in purple ink?

 

[Willie D]

...I know some people here don't believe the league will step in and save Sarver from himself because there is no precedence for that. The league has never stepped in to taken control of a team that was bad because they kept making bad decisions....

Well, there was the instance of Donald Sterling and the Clippers. Sterling operating that team like Sarver operates the Suns. But Sterling stepped into some deep legal doo-doo, and Adam Silver held the Sword of Damocles over his head.

I don't know how long Suns fans can tolerate a *****-team like this. Sarver's business model in banking was reprehensible. No one in Phoenix banking circles respects him a whiff.

Unfortunately, his behavior hasn't risen to a criminal level, at which point Silver could come in and sweep out the lint from the executive office.

 

[sunsfan88]

Best chance for the Suns to be successful is for Robert Kraft to include Sarver’s name in the prostitution sting that he’s caught up in. Say that Sarver’s somehow included and come up with BS evidence.

Even if the evidence doesn’t stick, Silver would throw Sarver out just because of the reputation hit and how much Silver cares about that type of stuff.

 

[sunsfan88]

The cheap thing did not seem to make sense. He does not spend wisely. That is for sure. It seems that he is unwilling to spend for non-player salaries throughout the organization.

...that’s being cheap.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Thank you Woj!!!

http://arizonasports.com/story/1855...eneral-manager/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

For what? I doubt they just started the search today and Jones says Woj doesn't know what he's talking about. He also said they have 10+ scouts involved despite what we keep hearing about the Suns having no scouts.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well, there was the instance of Donald Sterling and the Clippers. Sterling operating that team like Sarver operates the Suns. But Sterling stepped into some deep legal doo-doo, and Adam Silver held the Sword of Damocles over his head.

I don't know how long Suns fans can tolerate a *****-team like this. Sarver's business model in banking was reprehensible. No one in Phoenix banking circles respects him a whiff.

Unfortunately, his behavior hasn't risen to a criminal level, at which point Silver could come in and sweep out the lint from the executive office.

Sorry but the Sterling to Sarver comparison doesn't hold up IMO. Sterling was one of the worst owners of all sports of all time. Sarver isn't even the worst in the league right now, though he doesn't miss by much.

I'm not familiar with Sarver's rep locally as a banker, to what do you refer? What did he do that was "reprehensible" and to whom are you referring when you mention the disdain he's held in by "Phoenix banking circles".

 

[AzStevenCal]

...that’s being cheap.

Is it? It's hard to tell, he certainly has made some penny pinching decisions that have backfired on us. But he has a responsibility to his share holders so he shouldn't just be throwing money away. He spends money on players, he just has this mindset that every other position should be paid more like they are in the non-entertainment world. Most owners were that way a few decades ago, I guess he and Dan Gilbert are trying to bring that kind of thinking back to the game. I think they're wrong but it's not my billion dollar company.

 

[SunsTzu]

Thank you Woj!!!

http://arizonasports.com/story/1855...eneral-manager/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

I'm not holding my breath, can't see anyone with the clout to turn this thing around taking the job without major concessions from Sarver.

 

[JCSunsfan]

god bless JC. Has probably always been my favorite figure in all of sports... maybe tied with Larry.

Well. Thank you.

Oh. Er. You didn't mean me?

Yep. Agree with you about JerryC.

 

[GatorAZ]

Is it? It's hard to tell, he certainly has made some penny pinching decisions that have backfired on us. But he has a responsibility to his share holders so he shouldn't just be throwing money away. He spends money on players, he just has this mindset that every other position should be paid more like they are in the non-entertainment world. Most owners were that way a few decades ago, I guess he and Dan Gilbert are trying to bring that kind of thinking back to the game. I think they're wrong but it's not my billion dollar company.

It’s moreso been straight up dysfunction than “cheap” for me. Poor leadership all around... Things like not being able to sign Grant Hill without dumping KT can be put in the cheap category.

 

[JCSunsfan]

...that’s being cheap.

Cannot argue with that. But I do wonder if it is more about not having someone who will stand up to him rather than about the money--which is worse than being cheap, of course.

Here is what you can know for sure. Sarver read what Woj wrote. I remember him saying that he reads hoopshype on a regular basis. I would not be surprised if Sarver reads Suns message boards from time to time.

I would think that Lindsay Smith reads our board. She is the social media person for the Suns, so it would be her job.

 

[BC867]

You can see your address here.

FTFM -- Fixed that for me.

Thanks.

 

[Folster]

I'm not holding my breath, can't see anyone with the clout to turn this thing around taking the job without major concessions from Sarver.

National pressure is going to make him think twice about just giving the job to Jones. This might be the catalyst to bringing in a B-ball Ops president.

 

[BC867]

Regarding Sarver being cheap, I believe that is true on the management side. He oversees an organization worth over a billion dollars and is not investing in it appropriately, with all of his in-house promotions of unqualified people and hiring inexperienced leaders from the outside whom he can pay on the low end. And intimidate.

But, much worse than cheapness, Robert Sarver is a pathetically untalented manager, driven by ego. The one example alone of his shouting commands at McDonough while on the phone with another GM is enough to prove that. If Sarver doesn't respect the man he hired as GM, why would anyone else? And why would anyone who has proven himself want to come here?

The bottom of the barrel attracts the bottom of the barrel. And the Suns failure to improve goes on and on. It all starts at the top.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It’s moreso been straight up dysfunction than “cheap” for me. Poor leadership all around... Things like not being able to sign Grant Hill without dumping KT can be put in the cheap category.

Yeah, that was an incredibly shortsighted decision. It was cheap but I think stupid could give it a good fight and maybe come out on top on that one.

 

[AzStevenCal]

National pressure is going to make him think twice about just giving the job to Jones. This might be the catalyst to bringing in a B-ball Ops president.

Notice that Woj said that Sarver was already considering that. I don't buy into the idea that the league is worried about us, I think that's pure fiction on Woj's part. But we are a mess and obviously have been for several years.

 

[GatorAZ]

Yeah, that was an incredibly shortsighted decision. It was cheap but I think stupid could give it a good fight and maybe come out on top on that one.

I was looking back on how much they saved that summer considering the luxury tax implications. Joe broke it down wonderfully...

I'm not sure if I'm getting these numbers correct, but I think most people expected the luxury tax line to come in at around $72 million. The $67 million luxury tax line announcement gave them the excuse... I mean in order to be "financially responsible" and maintain "flexibility", they decided they could not afford that extra $5 million in luxury tax they did not expect.

So here we go. This is what the Phoenix Suns have saved in the last month followed by what they've given up to save that money. These figures are for this year only. Assuming there's a luxury tax next year and Shawn Marion does not opt out this summer they'll be in the same predicament next summer. However these numbers are only for this year.

SAVINGS:
+ $3 million - Portland paid for the #24
+ $5.8 million - James Jones salary + luxury tax
+ $1.8 million - salary for #24 draft pick + luxury tax
+ $16 million - Kurt Thomas salary + luxury tax
- $3.6 million - Grant Hill salary + luxury tax
- $1 million - vet. min. salary + luxury tax (replaced KT)
- $0.8 million - strawberry salary + luxury tax (replaced #24)

$20.2 million this season

TALENT/ASSET LOST:
1) Rudy Fernandez - I'm sure this is who they would have taken
2) #26 pick or worse in 2008 draft - assuming no disasters next season
3) unprotected 2010 draft pick - this one's a little scary since there is a lot that could happen between now and then.
4) James Jones - decent rotation player. Above average team defender and somewhat streaky three-point shooter.
5) Kurt Thomas - easily the biggest loss unless the 2010 season is a complete disaster. San Antonio would have swept the Phoenix Suns quite easily without him. He is an important regular-season player and a critical playoff player.

TALENT/ASSET GAINED:
1) Grant Hill - assuming he stays healthy is a big improvement over James Jones
2) $2.8 million trade exception - from the James Jones trade
3) $8 million trade exception - from the Kurt Thomas trade
4) flexibility - yes, that's something to get excited about

I still believe the Phoenix Suns have another move up their sleeve, whether it's this summer or during the season. I'll admit though that for right now it looks like they've screwed things up.

Joe Mama

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/how-much-did-the-suns-actually-save.93663/

 

[sunsfan88]

Is it? It's hard to tell, he certainly has made some penny pinching decisions that have backfired on us. But he has a responsibility to his share holders so he shouldn't just be throwing money away. He spends money on players, he just has this mindset that every other position should be paid more like they are in the non-entertainment world. Most owners were that way a few decades ago, I guess he and Dan Gilbert are trying to bring that kind of thinking back to the game. I think they're wrong but it's not my billion dollar company.

Yes, not spending on your employees and only your players is cheap.

There’s numerous examples of how many of the best owners spend an insane amount of $$$ on their staff both in the NBA and other leagues.

Dan Gilbert is another idiot that is so cheap that he has never given a GM a second contract during his tenure as owner.

I think having the mentality that every other position should be paid more like they are in the non-entertainment world is stupid and outdated. He should be spending on his staff how the rest of the league (specifically the good teams) spend on theirs. If he did that, I bet he’s able to bring in more qualified GMs and coaches rather than rookie ones each time.

I’m sorry, but there’s just zero defending it.

 

[sunsfan88]

Cannot argue with that. But I do wonder if it is more about not having someone who will stand up to him rather than about the money--which is worse than being cheap, of course.

Here is what you can know for sure. Sarver read what Woj wrote. I remember him saying that he reads hoopshype on a regular basis. I would not be surprised if Sarver reads Suns message boards from time to time.

I would think that Lindsay Smith reads our board. She is the social media person for the Suns, so it would be her job.

I will say this...I strongly believe that if Sarver opened up his check book then Mike Budenholzer would be the HC for the Suns right now. Would Budenholzer have the same success here that he’s having with a super talent Bucks team? No but would it better than what the Suns currently have? Maybe.

I just know McDonough and Budenholzer had their interview and everything went well enough for it go to ownership discussions and then Sarver and Budenholzer had phone which was followed by Budenholzer withdrawing from consideration.

And I do think there’s been more experienced coaches and GMs in the past who have not came here due to Sarver’s haggling over salary imo.