Would either Arrington or Shipp start for any other team in the league?

[Russ Smith]

Like the title of this thread suggest I do not think either of our RB's are what we need. You cannot wait around thinking a RB will develop. The good ones are ready from day one. There are some very good rookies playing this year who are big producers. You do not teach or learn instinct,speed, courage, power. They come with you right out of college. With Jones and Hearst they were both injured while Cards but if you look at their YPC you will see they were good when they were carring he ball. JJ is not a power runner and does not seem to like contact. I do not see him getting any better as some think.

Well I hate to throw facts into a good post but Jones' 3 years in ARizona he averaged 3.3, 3.4 and 3.7 YPC. He was injured some of that time but not all.

Hearst's 3 years in ARizona he averaged 3.5, 4.6(37 carries all year) and 3.8.

So as you said looking at their YPC you see they were essentially no better than Arrington as rookies. Hearst did get hurt but he also got into Buddy's doghouse because Buddy felt he was a pansy, he specifically called him a pansy more than once, no doubt in part to motivate him. in 95 Hearst got 1000 yards and had ONE rushing TD the whole year, JJ has 2 this year.

So your 2 examples of RB's who are/were clearly better than JJ neither one of them played any better than he did as a rookie, they just got more carries because they were first round picks and because the coaches stayed committed to them longer.

But again I don't want to throw facts into a discussion about how Jones and Hearst prove that RB's are great from day 1 or they're busts.

 

[CardShark]

Wasn't Preist Holmes considered a bust until he got to KC?

 

[40yearfan]

Holy Cow!!!! JJ has one fumble and you guys are declaring him a bust? Talk about a tough crowd!!

I can't recall one RB (including J Brown, OJ and Barry Sanders) who didn't fumble or have a not so great game on occasion. I've watched JJ get better every week and believe that next year he will be a force to be reckoned with, good O line or not.

Before we send him to another team to become a super star, let's at least give him a real chance here.

 

[Russ Smith]

Holy Cow!!!! JJ has one fumble and you guys are declaring him a bust? Talk about a tough crowd!!

I can't recall one RB (including J Brown, OJ and Barry Sanders) who didn't fumble or have a not so great game on occasion. I've watched JJ get better every week and believe that next year he will be a force to be reckoned with, good O line or not.

Before we send him to another team to become a super star, let's at least give him a real chance here.

I don't think the fumble is what people are mad about it's the lack of effort on the 4th down run yesterday. I can understand the reaction he didn't make the effort there. If he lowers his shoulder and tries to run through Taylor and doesn't make there's still some folks here who would complain because they were already convinced JJ was a bust. But the reason you're seeing so much outcry is that JJ did NOT make the effort he just went down to avoid the hit.

I can defend his talent and potential but I can't defend his actions on the last play.

 

[D-Dogg]

I can defend his talent and potential but I can't defend his actions on the last play.

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

What bothers me most about both Shipp and Arrington is that neither guy seems to make yards for themselves. All of Shipp's good runs occur when he has a massive hole right up the middle or occasionally to the right. Even then he is so amazingly slow that he never picks up huge yardage. Plus he is a terrible goal line/short yardage runner for someone who is supposed to be the power back. As for Arrington, he is what I refer to as a "gimmick" runner. I define gimmick runner as someone who has to be put in a position for success and the only play that ever works for him is the toss/flip outside that he runs to the left. Name me one time that either guy has truly made something out of nothing this year.

I watched the Tampa game yesterday, and I can guarantee you Cadillac Williams would have lowered his head and smashed into Sean Taylor and would probably have scored if he was running for us instead of JJ on that 4th and 2. The frustrating thing about the entire Arrington run is that not only should he have gotten the first down, but had he not been so concerned about getting hit, he could have scored. That run was very reminiscent of Emmitt Smith's touchdown against Seattle last year. Instead of wimping out and ducking (something Arrington didn't just start doing yesterday, he has done it all season), Smith made a decisive move and scored.

 

[Redsz]

I can defend his talent and potential but I can't defend his actions on the last play.

My thoughts put in one easy sentence.

 

[phillycard]

Wasn't Preist Holmes considered a bust until he got to KC?

Not to my knowledge, it was simply a matter of choosing Jamal over Priest. He did very well while there and made the decison hard on Ravens ownership.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

What bothers me most is that we are running a 4th and 2 play with JJ Arrington. He's not a short yardage back. I realize Hambrick cut his own throat.....but why has no effort been made to replace him??

 

[D-Dogg]

What bothers me most is that we are running a 4th and 2 play with JJ Arrington. He's not a short yardage back. I realize Hambrick cut his own throat.....but why has no effort been made to replace him??

This is a good point. We should have run with Femi or Quan in that situation. Actually, we should have ran on THIRD down and passed on 4th. To run two plays needing two yards, and not have Fitz or Q touch the ball on EITHER play is a travesty. Give JJ the shot on third down, or punch it up the middle with Femi on third and if you get it, great. If not, then throw the ball to Q on fourth and let him work his magic.

Absolutely atrocious playcalling. Seems they outthought themselves there. I know that you know that I know that this is the poison, so OF COURSE I can't put the poison in front of ME!!

 

[jefftheshark]

What bothers me most is that we are running a 4th and 2 play with JJ Arrington. He's not a short yardage back. I realize Hambrick cut his own throat.....but why has no effort been made to replace him??

They thought they had replaced him with a healthy Shipp, however the Shipp we knew in 2002 is long gone.

We should have run Q in this situation, which is a sad indictment on the RB's we have.

The Shark

 

[40yearfan]

I don't think the fumble is what people are mad about it's the lack of effort on the 4th down run yesterday. I can understand the reaction he didn't make the effort there. If he lowers his shoulder and tries to run through Taylor and doesn't make there's still some folks here who would complain because they were already convinced JJ was a bust. But the reason you're seeing so much outcry is that JJ did NOT make the effort he just went down to avoid the hit.

I can defend his talent and potential but I can't defend his actions on the last play.

So every time a guy screws up we should get rid of him? That one play did not cost us the game. Special teams allowing the TD on the kick-off broke our back. Warner was not very sharp, Fitz wasn't getting open very well and our play calling just absolutely sucks.

There is a lot of problems with this team, but if we start getting rid of people every time they make a mistake, we ain't gonna have very many people left.

 

[Russ Smith]

So every time a guy screws up we should get rid of him? That one play did not cost us the game. Special teams allowing the TD on the kick-off broke our back. Warner was not very sharp, Fitz wasn't getting open very well and our play calling just absolutely sucks.

There is a lot of problems with this team, but if we start getting rid of people every time they make a mistake, we ain't gonna have very many people left.

Oh I agree with you I don't want to get rid of JJ I'm just mad at him for his lack of effort on that play. Some people on Sunday wanted him gone but that happens every Sunday after a loss we get mad and blast players and coaches and eventually calm down.

I will admit I'm concerned with his reaction essentially defending the way he ran that play, but I am sure after he sees it on film and talks wtih Green and some of his more outspoken teammates, he'll understand how it looked and hopefully he won't do it again.

 

[Duckjake]

What bothers me most about both Shipp and Arrington is that neither guy seems to make yards for themselves. All of Shipp's good runs occur when he has a massive hole right up the middle or occasionally to the right. Even then he is so amazingly slow that he never picks up huge yardage. Plus he is a terrible goal line/short yardage runner for someone who is supposed to be the power back. As for Arrington, he is what I refer to as a "gimmick" runner. I define gimmick runner as someone who has to be put in a position for success and the only play that ever works for him is the toss/flip outside that he runs to the left. Name me one time that either guy has truly made something out of nothing this year.

I watched the Tampa game yesterday, and I can guarantee you Cadillac Williams would have lowered his head and smashed into Sean Taylor and would probably have scored if he was running for us instead of JJ on that 4th and 2. The frustrating thing about the entire Arrington run is that not only should he have gotten the first down, but had he not been so concerned about getting hit, he could have scored. That run was very reminiscent of Emmitt Smith's touchdown against Seattle last year. Instead of wimping out and ducking (something Arrington didn't just start doing yesterday, he has done it all season), Smith made a decisive move and scored.

I wouldn't be so down on JJ if I hadn't seen Willie Parker run for Pittsburgh. And I don't care about his YPC or how many carries he gets or how many pro bowl linemen he has in front of him. ("put down the stat book and watch some football") That kid runs tough.

 

[Russ Smith]

I wouldn't be so down on JJ if I hadn't seen Willie Parker run for Pittsburgh. And I don't care about his YPC or how many carries he gets or how many pro bowl linemen he has in front of him. ("put down the stat book and watch some football") That kid runs tough.

he does, but he also fumbles too much, 3 in the last 2 games, one of the insider chats yesterday said that Parker is still the starter, barely, because cowher is still concerned about his fumbling.

I agree though he runs really hard.

Cadillac was a poor choice for John to use though he had 10 carries 20 yards when he played against Washington, fumbled once. And it wasn't because he was hurt because a week later he had 116 against Atlanta.

I felt all along Cadillac was the best RB in this draft, my one concern on him was durability and so far that's been the problem for him. If Gruden wises up and doesn't over use the kid he'll have a fabulous career.

Not sure what to make of Benson, signed late, didn't do much, was buried behind Jones,but when he finally got to play a bit he did quite well before he got hurt.

Brown has been the biggest surprise to me, I really felt he was going to take longer to get it going, wasn't at all surprised when he started slow and Saban was calling him hesitant and too soft running inside. But he's put together a great rookie year.

Hopefully this is something JJ will put behind him, if he doesn't, he won't be a good NFL RB.

 

[Faithful]

Most of the backs mentioned would not have done much better with our Offensive line. There are exceptions to every rule, but, JJ is a rookie and Shipp is coming off a very bad injury. Add to that the O-line and maybe even the play calling.

I would be willing to bet that 25 of the 29 would have like problems this year in Arizona.

GBR
40

Thank you!! I agree I also think that neither back is given the ball enough times in one game to truly gauge how will they are doing.