Would you trade for Stefon Diggs?

[Solar7]

gotta agree. I used to stick up for Solar when i think the Murrites were going overboard, but there seems to literally be no solution that works for him, in any way shape or form and he consistently contradicts himself.

and remember, this is me and Ouchie, the OG Lords of the Darkside saying this about someone going doom and gloom.

I've posted my solutions in a couple of other threads... the direction I want to go isn't really that radical.

 

[Chopper0080]

It's not just "adding Diggs," it's sacrificing a high draft pick to pay a guy a lot of money who is frequently a malcontent and throws tantrums on the sideline.

On a roster that could now be starting Mason Cole and God knows what at RT, especially with a Diggs acquisition, and have Kyler running for his life, do you think Diggs is going to be pleasant to be around when he's not getting the ball because KM can't run a single designed play?

You are sacrificing a high draft pick which you are likely to use on an unproven player who plays the same position.

There are worse things than starting Mason Cole as your C, and giving him the opportunity you have advocated he deserves.

This doesn't prevent the Cardinals from signing Jack Conklin (unlikely) or using a 1st or 2nd rounder on a RT to go along with Murray.

Also, the argument that Kyler Murray struggles to get the ball to anyone is silly. He can throw the ball. He is accurate. He throws a nice deep ball. At this stage he is more comfortable throwing to players who are open. Diggs has proven to be able to do all of these things.

I understand that you have an idea of a plan you prefer, but your unwillingness to consider there is more than one way to becoming competitive is exhausting.

 

[Chopper0080]

Something to consider is that Vance seems to like squatty DTs. Most guys he has been around are 6'2 and around 300lbs. Watch for Andrew Billings and possibly Maliek Collins as FA targets. They fit that mold.

 

[BritCard]

It's not just "adding Diggs," it's sacrificing a high draft pick to pay a guy a lot of money who is frequently a malcontent and throws tantrums on the sideline.

On a roster that could now be starting Mason Cole and God knows what at RT, especially with a Diggs acquisition, and have Kyler running for his life, do you think Diggs is going to be pleasant to be around when he's not getting the ball because KM can't run a single designed play?

Every first round pick under Keim has sucked except one. So what are we really losing?

 

[Solar7]

You are sacrificing a high draft pick which you are likely to use on an unproven player who plays the same position.

There are worse things than starting Mason Cole as your C, and giving him the opportunity you have advocated he deserves.

This doesn't prevent the Cardinals from signing Jack Conklin (unlikely) or using a 1st or 2nd rounder on a RT to go along with Murray.

Also, the argument that Kyler Murray struggles to get the ball to anyone is silly. He can throw the ball. He is accurate. He throws a nice deep ball. At this stage he is more comfortable throwing to players who are open. Diggs has proven to be able to do all of these things.

I understand that you have an idea of a plan you prefer, but your unwillingness to consider there is more than one way to becoming competitive is exhausting.

We can disregard the Cole thing, fine. Whatever. But an offensive line that looks almost exactly the same as last year's means Kyler is gonna be on the run forced to avoid pressure with his feet again. We're never going to know what this offense is supposed to look like if it's a broken play 40% of the time.

This absolutely prevents us from signing Jack Conklin. A Diggs acquisition takes up a significant amount of our cap space. He would be our only splash signing.

See above for what I mean about Kyler. It's not his ability to throw, it's about having such subpar talent around him that Diggs better be DeAndre Hopkins levels of good to make up for it.

It's not just my specific plan I prefer, I don't know how anyone here can possibly rationalize trying to pick this guy up in our cap and roster situation. Diggs needs to be better than acquiring about 4 players. One from the draft, and 2-3 he'll eat up in available cap space. I see no way he is that good. He has only eclipsed 1000 yards two times in his 5 year career, never 10 TDs... and he's a diva who cries about not seeing the ball and will probably ask for a new contract soon, because he's that kind of guy.

 

[Solar7]

Every first round pick under Keim has sucked except one. So what are we really losing?

If Diggs is everything you say he is, we'll be losing one more year of being able to kick Keim to the curb since he'll have bought himself another year of mediocrity.

 

[cardncubfan]

We can disregard the Cole thing, fine. Whatever. But an offensive line that looks almost exactly the same as last year's means Kyler is gonna be on the run forced to avoid pressure with his feet again. We're never going to know what this offense is supposed to look like if it's a broken play 40% of the time.

This absolutely prevents us from signing Jack Conklin. A Diggs acquisition takes up a significant amount of our cap space. He would be our only splash signing.

See above for what I mean about Kyler. It's not his ability to throw, it's about having such subpar talent around him that Diggs better be DeAndre Hopkins levels of good to make up for it.

It's not just my specific plan I prefer, I don't know how anyone here can possibly rationalize trying to pick this guy up in our cap and roster situation. Diggs needs to be better than acquiring about 4 players. One from the draft, and 2-3 he'll eat up in available cap space. I see no way he is that good. He has only eclipsed 1000 yards two times in his 5 year career, never 10 TDs... and he's a diva who cries about not seeing the ball and will probably ask for a new contract soon, because he's that kind of guy.

Another year together provides the continuity the line needs to get better.


https://www.azcardinals.com/news/sean-kugler-wants-to-keep-kyler-murray-cleaner-in-2020


Kugler noted that the Cardinals did fare better in pass protection as the year went on. Murray was sacked 20 times in the first four games and 28 in the final 12.

"That's about learning about each other," Kugler said.

 

[Chopper0080]

We can disregard the Cole thing, fine. Whatever. But an offensive line that looks almost exactly the same as last year's means Kyler is gonna be on the run forced to avoid pressure with his feet again. We're never going to know what this offense is supposed to look like if it's a broken play 40% of the time.

This absolutely prevents us from signing Jack Conklin. A Diggs acquisition takes up a significant amount of our cap space. He would be our only splash signing.

See above for what I mean about Kyler. It's not his ability to throw, it's about having such subpar talent around him that Diggs better be DeAndre Hopkins levels of good to make up for it.

It's not just my specific plan I prefer, I don't know how anyone here can possibly rationalize trying to pick this guy up in our cap and roster situation. Diggs needs to be better than acquiring about 4 players. One from the draft, and 2-3 he'll eat up in available cap space. I see no way he is that good. He has only eclipsed 1000 yards two times in his 5 year career, never 10 TDs... and he's a diva who cries about not seeing the ball and will probably ask for a new contract soon, because he's that kind of guy.

We don't have a "cap situation". We have plenty of cap space. Diggs works easily within that space and doesn't prevent us from adding other players as well.

We don't have a "roster situation". We have a lack of top end talent. Diggs does this as well.

Again, I don't see the problem with adding Diggs unless you are in the camp of just not adding any WRs this offseason. If that was your position, I would understand why you would not like the move even if I would disagree that the position does not need to be upgraded.

 

[Chopper0080]

Diggs would have the same cap hit as Fitz if we traded for him.

 

[Chopper0080]

What player does trading for Stefon Diggs prevent you from signing on the FA market?

 

[Southpaw]

No!

 

[Vacard]

Hell yes. Frees up the 8 for any player.

Pipedream talking but if we get Littleton and Campbell in FA, and Diggs via trade, man we could truely go BPA....get Thomas or the Iowa tackle and we are in the playoffs.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I've posted my solutions in a couple of other threads... the direction I want to go isn't really that radical.

If you feel you have to stress a response that it's not that radical, then it probably is... "in my opinion" lol

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Every time someone wants to spend the cap space on a player where it's just upgrading a spot with an adequate player or significant amount of invested capital already, I complain.

Find me a single post where I complain about bringing in a new RT, OLB, ILB, or DL. Not even C. Unless I was on acid that night, I don't think you'll find one.

As far as my mindset about Cole, I really wanted him to start over AQ Shipley last year. I feel like starting 16 games as a rookie and then not being able to beat the old guy is a pretty bad indictment though, and he's since had his position essentially switched. But the fact that the team didn't trust him last year doesn't make me trust him much now.

Can’t you see the contradiction on this very post? You’re essentially saying “I don’t want to use money to upgrade. I think we need to use the money to upgrade over Cole.”

 

[Solar7]

We don't have a "cap situation". We have plenty of cap space. Diggs works easily within that space and doesn't prevent us from adding other players as well.

We don't have a "roster situation". We have a lack of top end talent. Diggs does this as well.

Again, I don't see the problem with adding Diggs unless you are in the camp of just not adding any WRs this offseason. If that was your position, I would understand why you would not like the move even if I would disagree that the position does not need to be upgraded.

I finally bit the bullet and made the chart I've talked about in other threads. As far as the cap goes, we have an estimated $51 million before the DJ signing, which puts us down below $40m, then about $10m reserved for rookies, give or take. So roughly, I'm putting us at $30m, which isn't a lot when you see how empty our roster is.

Here's why we have a "roster situation." We have 38 players under contract not counting futures signings who were essentially guys on the practice squad that are coming back. I pulled this info together using Spotrac and a couple of sources to verify who had "real" deals or what have you, since Spotrac can get a little finicky.

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Looking at breaking out $30 million, where we suffer so much at 7 starting positions, and a ton of backup positions. Just to get to 53 players, we need to add 15 players. Breaking out 1/3rd of our available cap into a guy like Diggs makes our flexibility in building this roster almost nonexistent.

There's so much money that just simply needs to go elsewhere to field a team.

 

[Solar7]

Can’t you see the contradiction on this very post? You’re essentially saying “I don’t want to use money to upgrade. I think we need to use the money to upgrade over Cole.”

I don't believe Cole is a player we should even be counting on as a center. We moved him to G last season. This isn't an "upgrade" any more than signing an ILB is an "upgrade" over Zeke Turner. It's a hole. A gaping, major hole.

 

[TheCardFan]

Kugler noted that the Cardinals did fare better in pass protection as the year went on. Murray was sacked 20 times in the first four games and 28 in the final 12.

Interesting. Remember the first few games when Kyler was going to beat the record for batted passes by a mile. I don't know the stats but that didn't happen.

 

[TheCardFan]

I don't believe Cole is a player we should even be counting on as a center. We moved him to G last season. This isn't an "upgrade" any more than signing an ILB is an "upgrade" over Zeke Turner. It's a hole. A gaping, major hole.

Eh. He started 16 games at C and when our starting C came back, he was the first guy off the bench.

As a 3rd round pick and 16 game starter...we should expect he is the starter at C IMO. If not, that was another wasted pick.

*If another of your favorite players (Gailliard) gets the starting C job...then that was an excellent 6th round pick.

 

[Solar7]

Eh. He started 16 games at C and when our starting C came back, he was the first guy off the bench.

As a 3rd round pick and 16 game starter...we should expect he is the starter at C IMO. If not, that was another wasted pick.

*Unless your other favorite player Gailliard gets the starting C job. Then that was an excellent 6th round pick.

AQ Shipley isn't very good and was under a contract where he could have easily been benched without too much concern. He also didn't have the excuses of knowing the offense like the back of his hand or having the loyalty of the coaches, ala Arians, and he was returning from a torn ACL.

In my mind, pretty much all of that is a really bad indictment of Cole's inability to keep the spot.

That's why I don't consider this an "upgrade," just like I don't consider signing or drafting multiple DEs over Zach Allen to be an "upgrade." The guys functionally didn't play their position. An upgrade is signing someone you like more than Sweezy, Hooper to push Maxx Williams down the depth chart, or replacing the Thompson Twins with a high-paid FA safety.

 

[Chopper0080]

I finally bit the bullet and made the chart I've talked about in other threads. As far as the cap goes, we have an estimated $51 million before the DJ signing, which puts us down below $40m, then about $10m reserved for rookies, give or take. So roughly, I'm putting us at $30m, which isn't a lot when you see how empty our roster is.

Here's why we have a "roster situation." We have 38 players under contract not counting futures signings who were essentially guys on the practice squad that are coming back. I pulled this info together using Spotrac and a couple of sources to verify who had "real" deals or what have you, since Spotrac can get a little finicky.

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Looking at breaking out $30 million, where we suffer so much at 7 starting positions, and a ton of backup positions. Just to get to 53 players, we need to add 15 players. Breaking out 1/3rd of our available cap into a guy like Diggs makes our flexibility in building this roster almost nonexistent.

There's so much money that just simply needs to go elsewhere to field a team.

QB - Brett Hundley (1.5 cap hit)
RB - Rookie or Drake re-signs (4 cap hit)
C - Cole (no additional cost)
RG - Max Garcia (1.5 mil)
RT - Murray (.875 ERFA)
NT - Zach Kerr (1 mil)
DE - Rodney Gunter (2 mil)
ILB - Joe Walker (.750)
OLB - ?
CB - Kevin Peterson (.750 RFA)
S - Chris Banjo (.805)
K - Zane Gonzalez (2 mil RFA)

Call it 15 mil to fill all of those spots. That is if no spots are two year deals which you can spread the hit. That gives you 15 to spend. 11 mil for Diggs.

So, in part you are correct. If only think linearly, you can sign one more guy. 4 mil x 5 = you can sign a guy with a 20 mil signing bonus.

If you think creatively, you can create more space.

Chandler Jones contract can be manipulated/extended.
Patrick Peterson's contract can be manipulated/extended.
You can extend/restructure David Johnson's contract.
JR Sweezy's contract is the same.

You can come up with an additional 15 to 20 mil pretty easy to make moves happen.

 

[Solar7]

QB - Brett Hundley (1.5 cap hit)
RB - Rookie or Drake re-signs (4 cap hit)
C - Cole (no additional cost)
RG - Max Garcia (1.5 mil)
RT - Murray (.875 ERFA)
NT - Zach Kerr (1 mil)
DE - Rodney Gunter (2 mil)
ILB - Joe Walker (.750)
OLB - ?
CB - Kevin Peterson (.750 RFA)
S - Chris Banjo (.805)
K - Zane Gonzalez (2 mil RFA)

Call it 15 mil to fill all of those spots. That is if no spots are two year deals which you can spread the hit. That gives you 15 to spend. 11 mil for Diggs.

So, in part you are correct. If only think linearly, you can sign one more guy. 4 mil x 5 = you can sign a guy with a 20 mil signing bonus.

If you think creatively, you can create more space.

Chandler Jones contract can be manipulated/extended.
Patrick Peterson's contract can be manipulated/extended.
You can extend/restructure David Johnson's contract.
JR Sweezy's contract is the same.

You can come up with an additional 15 to 20 mil pretty easy to make moves happen.

Counting on restructuring Chandler Jones and Patrick Peterson (and really, extend David Johnson?) to prevent this team from being the same 5-11-1 2019 team plus Diggs and maybe what, Vic Beasley and a few rookies, sounds like a team that's going to go 6-10 to me.

That sounds like a "situation."

 

[BritCard]

I finally bit the bullet and made the chart I've talked about in other threads. As far as the cap goes, we have an estimated $51 million before the DJ signing, which puts us down below $40m, then about $10m reserved for rookies, give or take. So roughly, I'm putting us at $30m, which isn't a lot when you see how empty our roster is.

Here's why we have a "roster situation." We have 38 players under contract not counting futures signings who were essentially guys on the practice squad that are coming back. I pulled this info together using Spotrac and a couple of sources to verify who had "real" deals or what have you, since Spotrac can get a little finicky.

You must be registered for see images

Looking at breaking out $30 million, where we suffer so much at 7 starting positions, and a ton of backup positions. Just to get to 53 players, we need to add 15 players. Breaking out 1/3rd of our available cap into a guy like Diggs makes our flexibility in building this roster almost nonexistent.

There's so much money that just simply needs to go elsewhere to field a team.

You can expect possibly 3 starters from the money put aside for the rookies. Certainly two min.

They there are RFA and ERFAs to sign that won't cost much.

Its possible. We won't fill every position with a quality guy but we should improve.

The draft is the key. We have to hit on 3 quality guys.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Counting on restructuring Chandler Jones and Patrick Peterson (and really, extend David Johnson?) to prevent this team from being the same 5-11-1 2019 team plus Diggs and maybe what, Vic Beasley and a few rookies, sounds like a team that's going to go 6-10 to me.

That sounds like a "situation."

You dont think its possible that there is also growth from players on the roster?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Lol. Ridiculous post of the week. There is literally no comparison between these players.

I wasn't trying to directly compare players as much as show that good players go to other teams and completely flop. There are countless examples of this.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You can expect possibly 3 starters from the money put aside for the rookies. Certainly two min.

They there are RFA and ERFAs to sign that won't cost much.

Its possible. We won't fill every position with a quality guy but we should improve.

The draft is the key. We have to hit on 3 quality guys.

Have we been averaging 3 starters per draft? I doubt it.